Ihatepropecia - I assume you struggled with mental sides as well? Is that going away in addition to your sexual symptoms?
I’m not suffering any sides with this stack so far. The endo is great. We spent 8 months analyzing my blood and tracking trends within my system before trying anything. He made me promise not to take any more over the counter “self-remedy” supplements during this time to establish a base line.
I had all the classic sides to the n degree. They were excruciating, from complete brain fog, dyslexia, slurring and stuttering, weight gain, sensitive to the sun, depressed, no libido, and all the other sexual sides. I had all of them and probably to a more significant degree because I inhibit both 5ar1&2. I’m now starting to be able to write and type again, even though my sentences appear correct to me, they normally are not, and I have to read through them many times and make corrections. But I feel things are getting better, but I hesitate to mention it because we know firsthand how many times we “think” we are better just to find the opposite is true, or end up even worse off. I can start a thread like JN, but I don’t want to unless I’m certain things are working. So far after 5 weeks, things are looking good, but we’ll see where we are after 10 weeks, 10 months, a year. If people feel they will benifit from me starting a progress thread like JN then for the community I will, but I know myself that I hate reading a recovery threat just to find out 10 pages later that nothing worked and they are back to square one.
I’m glad to hear of your improvements. Not to jump on your doctor so quickly, but where is he/are you located? Perhaps he would be open to treating other guys here. Any rate, I wish you continued success.
No problem. He is located in Vegas. I have only improved, not recovered. But if I do, I’ll be sure to give you guys the info.
Quick question, are you on TRT? Would you mind sharing your dosage for proviron, armidex, and dexathamesone? I’ve done some extensive research on those medications, it makes sense you are taking them I think atleast in my opinon…
No trt. The endo admits this is very new and we are to approach it systematically. He understand that we can be facing androgen insensitivity and that dexamethasone will suppress the adrenals by 30-40% thus allowing the body to become slowly acquainted with androgens again, but he also admits that the body is not going to do anything when it is being shutdown by excess e2 ( I was 84 on a scale of 15-47), thus the arimidex. Since we reviewed studies during the blood monitoring, he was fascinated with the study showing that DHT will stimulate 5AR. He spent some time going over it with his colleagues and we are starting with the following:
- Arimidex 0.5 twice a week. Proviron 75mg once a week. Do this for 8 weeks. So far I’m feeling much better and feel the best right after taking the Proviron. I have been doing this for 5 weeks.
After testing blood again here in about 2 weeks we will review, like he said, he wants to be systematic and not just through a bunch of substances into my system. If estrogen is good and DHT is higher, but I still do not feel semi normal, then we are to introduce low dose dexamethasone 0.5 once a day for four weeks, the slowly narrow the dosage. This is to actually suppress my adrenals to lower my testosterone. Lowering the testosterone slowly, then keeping it lowered for an extended amount of time should resensitize my system to androgens, then we can slowly pull off the dexamethosone and the system should be able to respond normally to androgens, and with doing proviron all this time along with dexamethosone, 5ar1&2 should be stimulated, and since we lowered the amount of test, DHT should be dominate in the pituitary and prostate, thus making fsh and lh normal again sine the pituitary will not be bombarded with excess test. This is the plan and so far it,s working, but it’s very young.
I took accutane 4 years ago… for about a week or two i was completely impotent… talked to the doctor and he told me it was fine… and for some reason i stayed completely calm, whilst continuing on the drug. the symptoms compeltely turned around one day to 100% of my former self even while still on the drug. I never connected teh dots because the doctor told me this wan’t related. I went on propecia and now I am in this shithole… lawl
Your Endo sounds brilliant ‘Ihatepropecia’ well done, and I hope you recover soon!
Yes, I took both Propecia and Avodart. Took Propecia for years with not really much of a problem, but Avodart messed me up real bad. Lots of the same problems that people with Post-Finasteride Syndrome have. Avodart is WAYYYYY more powerful than Propecia and it has the same chemical effect in the body in terms of blocking the production of DHT.
Any updates here?
Yes, please update.
Anyone can get hold of proviron and arimidex.
Guys, could we please stay on topic. Please discuss theories and recovery strategies in the appropriate sections.
Dear All, I came here to warn all of you about the most dangerous medicine that I have taken in my entire life - AVODART. I have BPH. I was given Avodart. The medicine destroyed by Penis and my Mind.
I have never felt so depressed ever. the thoughts that go through my mind are so dangerous that I can not describe in words. I have survived because of my wife. Massive depression coupled, with a destroyed penis, has taken away a huge part of my life.
I am an eternal Optimist. An atheist. I know I will survive unless cancer kills me.
Just want to ask around if anybody has managed to recover his penis after getting damaged by Avodart. We will have more discussion as time goes by.
I am sorry to hear. Strangewise, I feel better after I took Avodart for 2 weeks. My condition stems from taking Finasteride (Propecia) for some years. After I took Avodart, I had to wait for 8 to 10 weeks before things improved for me. Have you tried to take Avodart for two weeks and then stopping it? Maybe it will also help to improve your condition. At least from what you write, I don’t think it would make things worse.
Hope you recover.
I think this is really important because I do not see anywhere near the same level of dutasteride problems, and even in studies there is no real discussion of PFS syndrome with dutasteride. Sexual sides are common, but mental sides are not as frequently discussed unless dut is lumped in with fin.
I think there are two primary theories at play for PFS.
is the so-called “5-ar withdrawal theory”. I’m not positive how it works. It has to do with increased androgen receptivity during finasteride (where there is low DHT), and when DHT comes back “online” after taking the drug, the receptors are flooded with DHT, which sets off a genetic signal to permanently down regulate receptors. The down-stream processes of 3a-hydroxy enzymes are affected.
the next theory I hear is that the body up-regulates 5-ar1 to compensate for the lack of 5-ar2, and when 5-ar2 comes back online, somehow 5-ar 1 (in the brain) is intensely down-regulated.
Now, if the first theory is true, dutasteride would obviously be terrible because it suppresses DHT even more than finasteride. But if the second theory is true, who knows? Perhaps shutting down both enzymes at once would avoid the sea-saw effect. And sure, you’d still get sexual sides, but taking dutasteride would NOT lead to permanent sides that we see in PFS. That could explain why most of this stuff is around finasteride.
Maybe because dutasteride has such long half life the body is essentialy tappering off by itself and you dont suffer the massive dht flood?
That is a possibility as well. All we know is that dutasteride stays in the body longer at smaller doses, and affects both enzymes.
Accutane and finasteride, both of which are well-known to cause depression, attack only a single isoform of 5-ar.
I came across this thread via search engine, as I was considering starting up dutasteride again for hairloss (tried it briefly in the past, got spooked and stopped).
After reading what I’ve seen here, I think I will pass on trying it again.
I do want to share a method I’ve come across however that I believe works. Look into urine therapy and distilled water. I don’t want to spam the board since I’m a newbie here, however, it’s extremely powerful stuff, especially the former (urine therapy).
I’m quite knowledgeable on the topic so if you have any questions, let me know. The ED and sexual sides from my brief Dut session, as well as long-lingering deep-down depression from my accutane days, both appear to have vanished thanks to UT and/or distilled water.