Frustrated's Blood Tests

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

I’ve had a series of several blood samples analyzed but I will provide the two most relevant. The first was analyzed about 5 months after quitting finasteride. I had started with 5mg (1 tube) of Testim for TRT and some of my levels improved, however when I went up to 10mg of Testim a couple months later my hormone levels were surprisingly more unbalanced than before I started HRT.

September 2010 Results - 5 months off finasteride

  • Testosterone Serum: 456 (280-800 ng/DL)
  • Testosterone Bioavailable: 94.4 (40-250 ng/DL)
  • 17-OH Progesterone: 128 (5-160 ng:DL)
  • Dihydrotestosterone: 32 (30-85 ng/DL)
  • Cortisol: 15.1 (6.2-19.4 ug/DL morning)
  • IGF-1: 324 (116-358 ng/mL)
  • Lutenizing Hormone: 5.1 (1.7-8.6 mIU/mL)
  • FSH: 1.3 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
  • Estradiol: 19.2 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
  • DHEA-Sulfate: 461.6 (211-492 ug-dL)
  • Androstane Diol Gluconoride: 779 (340-2200 ng/dL)
  • Vitamin D OH-25 30 (30-100 ng/mL)
  • Vitamin B12: 340 (200-1100 pg/mL)

Late January 2011 - 4 months on TRT and 1.5 months at 2 Tubes of Testim (10g)

  • DHT – 174 high (25-75)
  • T (total) – 518 (250-1100)
  • T (bioavailable) – 167.3 (110-575)

T (free) – 76.5 (46-224)

  • SHBG – 29 (7-49); 52nd percentile of normal range
  • Adiol-G – 298 (260-1500)
  • Estradiol – 48 (13-54)
#2

If anybody could spare a few minutes, would you mind giving your impressions on my case?

#3

Frustrated,

welcome to the forum. Your adiol G is low, as is your Estradiol. You should try get that somewhere closer to 20’s.

Your Free T is low, as is your bioavailable T. Your Bioavailable T, is at 12.3% of the range from top to bottom. Your Free T is at 17.1% of the range from top to bottom. So much for this theory all these doctors have been throwing at us, that Free T is not reliable and the we need to guage Bioavailable T. Looks pretty comparable to me.

The problem with most of these doctors is they give no weight to age relation as to where you fall in the range, which just foolish. Clearly doctor Jacobs understands that and is a very good doctor.

Here’s a chart that a body builder posted. I’m assuming they calculate it in percentiles.
elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/average-total-free-testosterone-levels-men-age-group-500664.html

Are you somewhere between 85-100 years old? I’m guessing you’re not. Some of this stuff is common sense.

#4

Also, any thoughts on the bottomed out FSH levels? I have yet to get a semen analysis because I started testim, but are they so low that I should expect to be infertile?

#5

While I certainly can’t speak for Dr Irwig and we’re all happy he has begun an effort to help us. Many doctors subscribe to looking at the so called, “range” provided for determing wether or not you have an issue. If you fall in the range your fine, regardless of where in the range you are.

fyi, I tested my sperm count once and I was told it was very low from the Uroligist. I didn’t take TRT either.

#6

Frustrated

for the moment forget your numbers and tell us how you are feeling now. Do you feel any difference pre and post TRT application?
before TRT your DHT was low ,we assume it was low because your TT was low. After TRT your DHT is higher the upper limit which shows 5ARs are working.
I think you should pm your results to Oscar he is working on his own theories.

#7

Spstriken, I have been off of TRT for the past month. While I was on TRT, I can’t say I felt noticeably better with respect to my sexual function, but it seems to naturally fluctuate over time even without TRT. The natural fluctuation would make it hard to tell if anything works properly unless there is a very sharp marked change in function. I also did not notice a major change in weightlifting function between being on TRT and not.

I am not sure if DHT was originally low due to low TT but it sounds reasonable. It would almost seem my 5AR would be working too effectively now since virtually all of my replaced testosterone seemed to have been converted to DHT, but remained in that state as opposed to further breakdown to 3AG.

I’ll PM Oscar with a link to this thread to see if he will take any interest in my results. I’m not familiar with what he is doing.

Thanks.

#8

thanks Frustrated

did you feel any adverse effect from TRT and testim like water retension or gyno?
did you take any aromatase inhibitor as well like arimidex?
after 4 months do you feel as before?
Did you feel any difficulty coming off of TRT?

I was on Androgel and feel I got worse after Androgel maybe it is just my misconception.

#9

I didn’t notice any adverse effects from Testim and it was the only treatment I was using with respect to PFS. I must say I feel pretty similar to how I did before I started TRT, though I didn’t feel significantly different while on Testim. I weaned off the Testim for a couple days and the instantly stopped. The only difficulty I had was that I was noticeable irritable for about two weeks after stopping Testim. The size of my testicles are perhaps a bit smaller than how they were originally but it is hard to tell with these subtleties. I plan on getting another baseline test in a couple months which I will also submit to Dr. Irwig.

Dr. Jacobs was looking for a ‘dose response curve’ by adjusting the levels of Testim. After doubling from 1 tube daily to 2, I didn’t feel comfortable pushing it any higher and decided to come of all together. Dr. Jacobs says he had a few patients who improved with Testim but unfortunately I was not one of them. He has picked up this project relatively recently and is still doing a bit of experimenting.

I’ve decided that I feel uncomfortable being a guinea pig for untested PFS treatments. However, my blood sample has been sent to a lab to test for levels of methylation on my DNA and androgen receptor. This will take a couple months, but may shed some insight into the validity of the theories of acquired androgen insensitivity or epigenetic changes. I don’t have a background in biology, but I’ll be sure to pass on the results so whomever is interested can interpret them.

Frustrated

#10

Frustrated, thanks for contributing your blood test results. Your free testosterone, both as measured and calculated from your SHBG, are low. Like me, you did not climb very high in total serum T while on testim.

I have had better luck (less fatigue, occasional interest in sex/ability to maintain an erection w/o PDE5 inhibitor) using clomiphene to increase endogenous testosterone north of 650 ng/dL. It is not a cure all, but it is helpful, and provides a bit of estradiol control (I see your estradiol is climbing pretty high). In regards to your IGF-1, try to compare it to the U. of VA database to see where it falls vs averages of normal men.

#11

:question:
When did this start happening?!? Please post as much info as possible. Thanks.

#12

Agreed, this is very important news. More info please.

#13

There really are no more details to be provided. I’ll follow up in a few months if anything interesting emerges from the results.

#14

Any news???

#15

This is very exciting! What lab is doing this? How much did it cost? I imagine a lot given that it takes several months.