I made a IAMA post on reddit and it has made it to the front page. If you are on this forum, please make a throw away account on there and comment some of the people who are skeptical. Reddit gets A LOT of traffic and I hope this deters people, informs people, and hopefully lets Merck know what the hell is going on.
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fuhxi/iama_22_year_old_male_who_suffers_from_permanent/
link to image:
If you want me to add anything to the main area that people read first, please post here and I will add it.
I personally find it too physically exhausting and depressing to engage in discussion with the types of people that exist on Reddit. It is quite painful to see so many uninformed, ignorant, and spiteful people take this condition so lightly.
You’ve got an upvote from me. Despite the cynical trolls, it’s good that the message is getting out there.
Thanks for the upvote and yes I agree with you on the fact that it is depressing to try to talk to people in the comments. I’ve left probably over 100 comments, most people claiming there is no problem at all and nothing is wrong.
In total, about 950 comments… around 900 upvotes, 500 downvotes.
I’d like to ask people here to get their most important studies, or information, and I am going to post another one in about a week or two at a specified time and we can all engage in it.
Lots of people on reddit don’t seem to see any connection. I put the Euro information about them adding it as a permanent side effect, but still others are skeptical. We need more rock solid information and more of it to prove it. If we have reddit’s support, we could make a change in this. This was on the front page for a good 8 hours at least. A lot of comments also told me that they had no idea, thanked me for it, etc.
But we need to add more to it. Please, give me your best information… I will gather my best information from here and do another post in a week or two. So please help me out!
Bryce,
You should consider including following link: propeciahelp.com/awareness
Studies (right click to copy full link):
viewforum.php?f=8
This one just came out:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21176115
J Sex Med. 2010 Dec 22. doi: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2010.02157.x.
Adverse Side Effects of 5α-Reductase Inhibitors Therapy: Persistent Diminished Libido and Erectile Dysfunction and Depression in a Subset of Patients.
Traish AM, Hassani J, Guay AT, Zitzmann M, Hansen ML.
Also, consider mentioning a class action lawsuit was filed in Canada, January 24, 2010 by the firm Klein Lyons for men suffering persistent sexual dysfunction from Propecia & Proscar:
Official notice of claim:
kleinlyons.com/class/propecia-proscar/Propecia-Notice-Civil-Claim.pdf
Official Press Release:
newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/January2011/24/c4833.html
Canadians, register to participate:
kleinlyons.com/class/propecia-proscar/qualify.php
all right great, thanks mew. i will include those.
i will let everyone know when a new post is coming about a week in advance. i want people to be ready because i need people’s help to respond to comments. if you read the last reddit thread, there was a lot of hate and downvotes because people didnt understand!
Many members of reddit posted some help related to our problem. I think we are aware of a lot of it, but I haven’t done enough research to know completely. These are some things I got from it:
Hey man there are some different drugs/peptides that i think you should try, if you have not already looked into them already, that a lot of body builders use to rebound from steroids and whatnot. 1) human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), it basically mimicks the hormone that causes your testes to make more of their own testosterone. 2) Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin (hMG), has a similar effect but also mimicks the hormone which causes you to produce more sperm. 3) Triptorelin is a research peptide that might sounds really promising too. check out this link. professionalmuscle.com/forums/peptides-growth-factors/69463-triptorelin-completely-restores-endocrine-function.html
Have you tried talking to your doctor about supplementing your testosterone levels with Test-E or sustonol? I know a few body builders who take testosterone derivative (illegally) and when they cycle, there sex drives go through the roof, I know you can get some of this stuff with a prescription, and I’m sure your Dr would be willing to write you one after ruining your sex life.
I’m a doctor, recreational bodybuilder, steroid user, and have an understanding of endocrinology that’s better than most endocrinologists.
The doctor that is treating you is probably an idiot. They literally DO NOT TEACH ANYTHING about sex hormones in medical school. Most doctors don’t understand how testosterone works, what it does, where it comes from, and what controls its release.
Your low sex drive is probably not caused by propecia, as it will only (mostly) stop testosterone from being converted to DHT (a more potent form), and temporarily at that. There are other causes of low sex drive (which I unfortunately suffer from as well, I had to go on HRT this year) that should be investigated.
The labs you need to get done next time you go to your doctor are: Total testosterone free testosterone sex hormone binding globulin Calculate the free androgen index from those… i believe the healthy range is 0.7-1.2 (disclaimer… I’ve been drinking tonight!)
Also have TSH, Thyroid hormone, DHEA looked at.
The drugs you need to raise your testosterone/fertility are called SERMS- selective estrogen receptor modulators. Strangely, in our bodies, testosterone is not regulated by it’s own release, but rather, by how much of it is converted to estrogen (and then binds to E receptors). SERMS block the estrogen receptor, therefore, creating less negative feedback, and therefore, more testosterone production. You’re gonna be looking at clomid, nolvadex/tamoxifen, and anastrazole (blocks conversion of T->E) to get back to where you need to be. hCG might be needed as well. Look up PCT (post cycle therapy) for bodybuilders- those are all the drugs they use to get their T back up after cycling.
You also need to look at FSH and LH levels to determine if the low testosterone is from a deficiency of your pituitary gland, or your nuts.
Oh, and guys who are worried about balding, DON’T. I’m bald, and it has impacted my sex life ZERO. Girls want an alpha male who makes money and takes charge, not a guy with a full head of hair (as much). All you have to do to be attractive to women is be confident. Making money never hurts, either.
from HouselsLife sent 9 hours ago
Hormones are something I’m passionately interested in, I studied them all on my own time because I found my medical school education to be completely inadequate for something so important. I’m infuriated that my colleagues choose to remain ignorant on such an important area of health, and refuse to neglect that aspect of a patient’s health.
Getting my dad on HRT absolutely changed his life- he went from being a befuddled old man with hypertension, no sex drive, obesity, high cholesterol, ect, to acting and feeling like a 25 year old (with none of those health problems). I’ve also experienced both superphysiological and low levels of testosterone, so i know how you feel at either end of the spectrum.
so, from your second lab results, i didn’t see a SHBG level. Sex hormone binding globulin is a protein in your blood that binds, and inactivates, testosterone. The RATIO of those two is what’s important- you could have testosterone through the roof, but have super high SHBG mopping it up, giving you symptoms of low testosterone. The opposite could also be true- low testosterone, but SUPER low SHBG yielding a high ratio, therefore, higher functional testosterone than in the previous example.
You absolutely cannot know how effective the testosterone in your body is without knowing both testosterone and SHBG levels because of those reasons. You use them to calculate the FAIhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_androgen_index
Here’s a reasonably good diagram of how your hpta axis workshttp://www.predatornutrition.com/misc_images/pZole-and-HPTA-small.jpg
Oh, one caveat: bodybuilders are DECADES ahead of the medical community in their knowledge of this subject, and I’d trust the (scientifically researched) opinions of steroid message boards before most any doctor’s. One example is this: the “normal” reference range for testosterone is 273ng/dL - 1600ng/dL (depending where you look), so ignorant doctors, despite having a patient complaining of ALL the symptoms of low testosterone, generally won’t treat for hypogonadism. That range is “normal,” as in it’s normal for people to be healthy, unhealthy, or in between, but says nothing about OPTIMAL healthy. a 90 year old man, on the verge of death, probably has a normal T level of 273 (forget FAI for this example), while a 25 year old has 600. They’re both considered normal, because the reference range was calculated using ALL men’s levels, not what they are during the prime of their life. A 20 year old with 273 is obviously not normal, and he needs help.
Well, that’s enough ranting for now, I hope this helped! If you have any more Qs, feel free to ask.
from HouselsLife via IAmA sent 9 hours ago
show parent
Oh, one more thing that seems to be overlooked here, is estrogen levels. To high, and strangely, to low estrogen can cause low sex drive. You should get your E levels checked as well. Same goes for progesterone.
I’m having a hard time replying to the message I just sent you, so I’m posting here. In your labs, you have your free testosterone listed, but no SHBG. I’m a little rusty on this stuff (been out of school for like a year), but I think that the did some sort of calculation to come up with that number, and didn’t actually measure it, so it could theoretically be off. I’m sorry, I can’t remember the details of the explanation, it’s just something I remember the HRT doctor I shadowed saying.
Here’s a good little calculator: issam.ch/freetesto.htm
you can see that you need SHBG to be able to calculate the free and bioavailable testosterone.
