For those claiming muscle/ bone loss - how much weight have you lost?

[moonman1]

I have already post 5+ links that show the correlation. A naturopath is going to be 100x more knowledgeable on adrenal issues than an MD. Most MDs wont even acknowledge adrenal insufficieny. To them it is either 100% or 0% (Addisons), which is obviously flawed since the endocrine glands do not function that way.

Honestly Veterinarians know more about adrenal issues than MDs because dogs are very susceptible to them so its common for them. Its the same process, same function, same symptoms in dogs as it is in humans.

On physical examination, dogs with Addison’s disease may have muscle wasting, generalized
weakness, slow heart rate, and poor pulses or may be fairly normal on physical examination.

vetspecialistsofrochester.com/pdf/Internal-Medicine/Addison’s%20disease.pdf

Skeletal muscle wasting is a common symptom in the adrenal insufficiency such as Addison’s disease.

bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2108/zsj.22.229

In adrenal fatigue, the body breaks down collagen and muscle for fuel. This catabolic state lead to weakening of the skeletal system, with symptoms such as fibromyalgia, chronic muscular pain of unknown origin, joint pain, loss of muscle tone, and reduced muscle strength.

Adrenal Fatigue and Vitamin C
Michael Lam, MD, MPH
www.DrLam.com

[m_81]

@moonman1

@m_81

@moonman1

When I took testosterone and got my T and DHT above range, I noticed that I was able to gain some muscle back, without even working out. Others also noticed this. I have been off Testosterone for a year and I think my muscle wasting is back again.

How doesn’t this prove that we are NOT insensitive to androgen?

It doesn’t prove or disprove. IMO if it was as simple as just getting T and DHT up just above range…then my sex drive and erection quality would have came back and it would have cured my fatigue, brain fog, etc as well…

I’m not talking about brain fog, fatigue, sex drive; I’m talking about muscles. Muscle growth depends only and directly on T. Therefore, if you were insensitive to androgens, raising T would not have made your muscles grow back. If you disagree, please suggest an alternative way that made your muscles grow back despite T insensitivity.

[Oscar]

@moonman1

I have already post 5+ links that show the correlation.

You think the links you have provided show that low cortisol (not Addisons) can cause muscle loss? Are we looking at the same things? Where are the papers or textbooks? Is ‘Dr Lam’ the only person in the world with this knowledge?

@moonman1

Honestly Veterinarians know more about adrenal issues than MDs because dogs are very susceptible to them so its common for them. Its the same process, same function, same symptoms in dogs as it is in humans.

Well, thats in direct contradiction to all of the animal studies you have posted. Did you bother to read them? They are all clearly talking about addisons disease - not just low cortisol.

@moonman1

A naturopath is going to be 100x more knowledgeable on adrenal issues than an MD. Most MDs wont even acknowledge adrenal insufficieny. To them it is either 100% or 0% (Addisons), which is obviously flawed since the endocrine glands do not function that way.

Which is why its so important to post a credible source.

Unfortunately M, its unlikely you have more knowledge that the entire scientific and medical community.

Making baseless claims helps nobody. Its misleading. Its silly.

You cannot support a single claim you have made. You dont know if what you are saying is true. This could harm the chances of somebody making a successful recovery unless it is questioned.

[Size=4](I wont even discuss naturopaths.)[/size]

[moonman1]

@to.robin

My endo gave me Hydrocortisone because my cortisol levels were low (apparently) but all I got was an increase in fat on the gut and under the chin, just in the space of 3 weeks. So I stopped taking it. I was also on DHEA for 18 months but have since stopped.

You were taking a full days dose all at breakfast. What did you expect to happen?

[moonman1]

Being hypoadrenal is a perfect concoction for weight/muscle loss. Increased energy expenditure by the body, decreased insulin, increased glucagon, and increased epinephrine.

Go get yourself some books on Pathology. Start with Goljan then move onto Robbins. If that doesn’t satisfy you then read Safe Uses of Cortisol by Dr Jeffries. That will explain why there is so little research/information out there…

You think the links you have provided show that low cortisol (not Addisons) can cause muscle loss? Are we looking at the same things? Where are the papers or textbooks? Is ‘Dr Lam’ the only person in the world with this knowledge?

Nearly every link I posted shows this…please explain how you are not comprehending that.

Well, thats in direct contradiction to all of the animal studies you have posted. Did you bother to read them? They are all clearly talking about addisons disease - not just low cortisol.

Nothing is contradictory. High cortisol and low cortisol both cause muscle wasting.

High cortisol = Cushings
Low cortisol = adrenal insufficiency and addisons

Which is why its so important to post a credible source.

Unfortunately M, its unlikely you have more knowledge that the entire scientific and medical community.

Making baseless claims helps nobody. Its misleading. Its silly.

You cannot support a single claim you have made. You dont know if what you are saying is true. This could harm the chances of somebody making a successful recovery unless it is questioned.

[Size=4](I wont even discuss naturopaths.)[/size]

More than half of the articles/studies I provided are by Doctors and I think one was a medical practitioner.

[to.robin]

I went to see Dr Georgiadis in Greece last month, yep he of the famous Prostatitis thread.
He did the ultrasound and told me I was in the first stage of inflammation of chronic prostatitis, but this had not spread to the urethra and I had no obvious symptoms. He said that this was not the cause of the muscle wasting; when I pushed him he speculated that finasteride may have affected the androgen receptors in the muscles, however that is not his field of work.
So I decided not to go for the treatment, paid him 250Euro, and just stayed in Kos for a 2 week holiday. I’m happy that I went, at least I’ve ruled out one possible avenue of research.

[Mew]

when I pushed him he speculated that finasteride may have affected the androgen receptors

Thanks for sharing another doctor’s opinion on this possible mechanism.