How many of you guys have actually used some form of exogenous DHT or proviron and if not why?
Yeah I’ve done a four week cycle of a transdermal DHT pro hormone called andro hard. The cycle gave me a feeling of mental calmness that had been long gone with pfs. Also increased strength in the gym, increased confidence and aggression. Negatives were increased anxiety at times, and increased hair loss (not that I care about that anymore). Sexually, I had increased sensitivity but this faded after the first week.
I’m currently on week 2 of my second cycle. This time, I haven’t had the aggression, confidence nor the sexual benefits I had last time. I have the mental clarity again though, along with the strength increase that is to be expected.
Lately though, I’ve had lots of sexual dreams and waking up in the morning with raging wood and having massive urges to masturbate, something I haven’t really felt since PFS hit. However, if I ignore these urges, once I get out of the bed, I rarely have a libido unless I make myself think about sex.
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I managed to get similar effects out of herbal supplements. I seem to be doing the best now by not supplementing anything but if i get worse i’ll consider a prohormone. I noticed diminishing effects on my subsequent cycles as well but they seem to have gotten me back to at least 99 percent.
I had low DHT - 175 pg/ml (300-850). I have been using transdermal DHT for the past 2.5 weeks. I have been taking 20 drops of Andractorol (DHT solution, 12%), which should be around 120 mg of DHT.
There are some interesting things to report, although I am afraid not a resolution of core PFS symptoms such as lack of libido or ED. However positive effects are significant enough that I intend to continue despite the significant cost of the DHT product.
I have huge improvement in joint pain – which used to be completely debilitating – to the point where it is almost not an issue any more. The way it is going I think my joints my recover completely after a couple of months.
Even before I started DHT I knew that my joint pain was caused by weakness in the soft tissues surrounding the joints (ligaments, tendons and muscles). The pain spread along the muscle. It looks like DHT supplementation is having an effect on what appears to be androgen deprived soft tissues.
I also have increased aggression (this is bad - I am lowering the dose partly because of this), better mood, more hope, less anxiety, more calmness, more confidence, etc - all without much effect on libido, which I always assumed was the only thing that drove the psychological symptoms of PFS.
Update: I think I do have increased libido but the effect is not huge so far but it might be increasing.
I also have increased morning erections. I am also taking a high dose Tribulus which acts in a similar way on libido/erections so I can’t disambiguate the effect very well. I am taking Tribulus in order to prevent reduction of HPTA hormones, which normally happens with DHT supplementation.
The first day I took DHT there was a noticeable libido/erection boost. Prior baseline was zero so even a small effect would be noticeable. With continual use I consider the effect small but it might be increasing gradually.
My blood work has changed in the following manner: my progesterone has dropped from 0.805 nmol/l to 0.541 (up to 0.474) and is almost in range now. Estradiol has also dropped from 95 to 72 pmol/l (41.4 - 159.0). DHT went up from 175 pg/ml to 605 pg/ml (300-850). Free Testosterone went up from 29.27 to 32.32 pm/ml (7.0 - 22.7). SHBG went up from 33.4 to 56.08 nmol/l (18.00 - 54.00). Note that I did not take Tribulus at the first measurements of DHT, Free T, and SHBG.
My current DHT concentration is not huge at 605 pg/ml. I am reducing the dose partly because the aggression is a bit much and partly because of cost considerations. I am wondering however if achieving a much higher level of DHT (above 850 pg/ml) may not be needed in order to downregulate ARs. Any opinions on this? @MasterofPuppets
So far I have seen a benefit with raising DHT (with a transdermal solution) and Testosterone (with Tribulus). I don’t know what will happen when I stop supplementation and what my new baseline would be.
I should write a longer and more organized post about all this at some point soon.
Hopefully it helps your libido soon since you have seen improvement in other ways. Is this andractim?
A Pyrrhic victory for our little debate I suppose…?
Does long-term administration of it have similar risks to long-term Testosterone administration?
Its mildly suppressive but not much, testosterone is very suppressive and long term trt is guaranteed ball shrinkage.
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I actually haven’t made up my mind about this yet - i.e. I am not ready to declare even a partial defeat in our debate. I am currently taking both DHT and Tribulus and the combination definitely increases my libido. The effect is small but noticeable. There is no doubt however that any effect from increased libido is augmented from increased aggression and confidence by DHT.
DHT is supposed to reduce all HPTA hormones. In my case this hasn’t happened yet. Testosterone hasn’t budged, although SHBG has increased a lot so free T must have fallen. One reason may be that I am taking Tribulus.
Supposedly DHT is better for the prostate than Testosterone, ironically. Prostate hyperplasia may require estrogen action as well, which DHT decreases, unlike Testosterone. There is a paper about this.
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When you’re already that shut down that dht usually helps in such a situation because it gets rid of whatever estrogens attached on your endocrine system are shutting you down. I dont know of any doctors that even know this stuff. Its mostly research i did into illegal steroids that gave me the knowledge to fix myself and i had to do a lot of googling before i found out i had to be tested for sibo. All a syndrome is is a broad set of symptoms and i feel like people act like if you “really had pfs” X would have happened and not Y. But everyones situation is probably very individual
They most definitely don’t know even the simplest of hormonal relationships. I can’t even be tested for DHT in my country because nobody offers that test. This is because no doctor asks for it ever.
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I don’t remember if i’ve asked you but do you have digestive issues? I think quite a few of us have digestive problems caused by sibo and it might be microbiome changes that is the underlying cause. Me and 2 other members developed ibs symptoms same time we took something.
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What is sibo?
I don’t have any digestive issues. I also don’t believe PFS has anything to do with the microbiome. The microbiome is the most non-specific catch-all cause that purports to explain everything in medicine.
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Its when your small intestine is infected with bad bacteria and you get bad digestive issues and food intolerances etc. It also causes intestinal permeability which causes estrogen to leak back into our bodies and i think its overlooked as a cause in some guys. I think everyone needs stool and liver function checked. I dont think i’d be getting so much better if i wasnt treating this as its own issue on top of my pfs symptoms. And i wonder how many of us with sudden changes in bowel movements have actually been breath tested for sibo? It made all my shit literally like asphalt and starved the shit out of me. Also i think some guys who attributed recovery to fasting got rid of some kind of altered gut bacteria? But the 5ar inhibitors shutting down the migrating motor complex seems to make sense since the gut and central nervous system are directly connected one shutting down could shut down both.
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hey please message me… I think you might be onto something…
I got these symptoms even though I never took propecia/accutane/ssri.
I was working as a garbage man on a construction site and went on a severe crash diet when all these symptoms happened to me…
numb genitals, no morning/sponatenous erections, low semen volume and force, numb ejaculation, rubbery genitals, dry tired eyes… Now what I have proven is Low e2 and low Dht, while Total T is in the upper 600s. What does not make sense to me is that liver enzymes GGT and ALT are always elevated as well as Billirubin.
Also I noticed that my low e2 could be a problem 12 (11-45) I was wondering why do I feel like I have an estrogenic body odor (its very musky like celery or something, its unlike before) but the blood says I have low estrogen? I think the body is excreting estrogen at an alarming rate through sweat, and urine?Maybe why I am leaking urine, and my armpit pores feel blocked?
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Your liver enzymes are probably elevated because your gut is leaky or permeable and waste keeps coming back into your system. I fixed sibo but i got a bad pathogen in the process it seems it might be c difficile, but my test result isnt back yet. At least its way more easily recognized by doctors since it can be dangerous, it seems shit that kills you really slow like sibo isnt as well understood by doctors. Feels like somethings clawing at my intestines but at least my sibo seems to be gone. And i think your right my pores seemed clogged up too probably with estrogen but only the weak forms of estrogen can be sweated out. Also your low blood e2 is probably because your receptors have too much, men usually dont actually have low estrogen its almost always low testosterone and increasing your testosterone increases the estrogen so if you have a low e2 number its probably because your T probably used to be around 1000. What is your stool like? And do you have intolerances to foods you’ve noticed that you’ve developed?
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I used to eat eggs everyday around 4-5 due to “amateur bodybuilding” and trying to get big. I did this for about 2-3 years with no problems. However about 2 months before my crash I ate eggs, and got hives like crazy. It was an alerggic reaction my whole neck was red and swollen face and arms too. It was also itchy. I thought it was just the package of eggs that was bad but it wasn’t because it went away in 3-4 hours and I tried with another carton and I also got the reaction. 2 days later my soccer team went to an island for preseason training about 3-4 hours away and I ate eggs again and the same shit happened!
I stopped eating eggs eventually for a bit, but now I can eat them again with no reaction??? Shit is most like tar, and it sticks to the toilet. I read that this can be due to protein/fat malabsorption?
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Really sounds like sibo my shit was same way now its c difficile and this is so bad i cant sleep. Gonna neeed fucking vancomycin.