There could be NO correlation between urine and CNS levels.
We would need someone who tested their urine through ZRT and came back high to have spinal fluid taken
My goal is to reach the ten person goal . I’ll be at 7 soon . If I have ten people with high urine Allopregnanolone I’m going to try sending it to
Melchangi. To see if it would encourage him to do a study comparing urine and CNS Allopregnanolone of PFS group VS control
I don’t think urine and CNS Allopregnanolone levels are the same . My theory is that we are getting rid of (peeing out) high amounts of if due to an imbalance of some sort . Point being if it’s high in the urine it’s not the case that our production of it is low like many think. It can’t be high in the bodies waste if it’s not being produced via its pathway
Progesterone to 5a-DHP via 5AR
5a-DHP to Allopregnanolone via 3a-HSD
So ok we are producing it but it’s low in the CNS and high in the urine. Why ? Does a non PFS person have high amounts of Allopregnanolone in the urine and low amounts of it in the CNS? And if a non PFS person is not peeing out all their Allopregnanolone then why are we ?
I’ll post all the ZRT lab results soon . I wish I could just link the dam thread from the other forum that I already organized it all in. I have to do the work twice . Annoying
This isn’t a thread about Melcangi and urine tests so I think we should get back to OT. However, if you would like to investigate idea of inferring meaning from urine tests then perhaps a reasonable starting point would be to go through the citations in this paper (1) to see what types of testing established studies have used and (2j to learn about the rationale behind, which is something papers generally report https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7240001/
We are unqualified and do not have the backgrounds to figure out what PFS is by ourselves, though. Not in a million years. If the effort that has been expended here barking up wrong tree trying to figure out PFS on our own had instead been put toward getting word out and research started then we would be 15 years closer to recovery.
I think it’s relevant. U r saying to increase Allopregnanolone and it’s flagged high in 5 people although not necessarily in their CNS
Sorry if you don’t like it but reality is reality
Good luck
What? I suggested looking at what correlation is if any between serum and urine levels of Allo.
Or just try this “protocol”.
It’s impossible to know what the correlation is until we have more info/studies specific to PFS. No amount of study reading regarding general info as it pertains to correlation between urine and CNS Allopregnanolone levels will tell us. But based on all the available info we currently have it does not appear to be low in the context of our bodies stopped producing it. I’m simply saying to anyone trying a protocol specifically for the purpose of increasing Allopregnanolone to keep this in mind . That’s all I’m saying . I’m not saying to not try it . Just a be advised type of thing
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Just to chime in, Allopregnanolone seems to be excretioned through both urine and feces.
So it might just be that the people with high urine allopregnanolone have a lower concentration in feces. So in theory they might be high or low, in total.
Thank you for trying out new (possible) treatments and sharing this with us. Finding 1,4-Butanediol should be the easy part, i think you can get it from ebay. Even if this protocol doesn’t work, that’s another angle we can rule out. Please keep us updated if you try it.
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Interesting
We will need an equal amount of non PFS people to get the urine ZRT test to have a better idea if high Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in the urine is exclusive to PFS people
In my opinion if we end up with 7-10 PFS people with high Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in the urine and 7-10 non people that don’t have high Allopregnanolone and 3a-diol in the urine then I think this is important
Same thing with high T and DHT in the urine . If it’s exclusive to PFS people I don’t think it should be ignored
Please create thread for urine test topic
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Don’t see any on eBay and probably not safe source anyway
A little off topic but what about microdosing shrooms? I was going to try them but I could not find any here in Turkey and then forget about them. On reddit there is a huge group where people cured many issues with microdosing shrooms. Mainly depression. But also migraines, anxiety, psychological issues etc. It seems to fix something in the brain for many people.
Just mentioning because we talk about GHB.
The internet is full of excitement for and stories about seductive magical cures for everything. I prefer to stick with things that actually have direct scientific basis for addressing our condition.
I have been doing this for a while and can attest to this: it does seem to work for the mental side of things.
I have to do it . I’m going to create the thread and post everyone’s results. I’m just so busy and it’s so much work so it’s taking me a while to make time for it
Have you seen the new straight Allopregnanolone product being sold from the lab that was selling 5a-DHP? I haven’t read the whole ray peat Allopregnanolone product trials thread yet because I have been really busy with other non PFS stuff. But that’s what you are trying to do right ? Increase Alleopreg?
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ordered today, will test soon.
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I’ve taken IdeaLab’s AlloP (orally bioavailable Allopregnanolone) for two days so far (2mg/2 drops, sublingual, 10mins, morning). Sometimes I’ll take an additional 1-2mg in the afternoon/evening too after the first dose starts to wear off. It’s probably too soon to say anything definitive yet, but so far it appears to be helping with my symptoms! Unrelated to taking AlloP, I’ve also been waking up 6:30-7 instead of 8-9 and eating while getting outdoor light for 30min within the first hour after waking. This, in addition to entraining my circadian rhythm and promoting a natural morning cortisol spike, also seems to be helping with my symptoms in general too.
Improvements I’ve noticed after 2 days:
- less anxiety
- improved sleep quality (more deep and rem sleep observed in sleep tracker)
- less hand tremor
- much calmer and more collected affect/mood
- eye contact more comfortable/social interaction less awkward
- less anhedonia
- easier to interpret subtle facial cues
- easier to express and feel emotions
- less overthinking and more of a flow
- improved episodic memory
- less perseveration, hesitation, and slowness while completing sequential tasks
- improved executive function
- less reliance on other supplements (only need 200mg caffeine daily now)
- breathing feels more complete and heart feels more efficient
- Improved HRV
- more receptive and responsive to visual erotic stimulation
Remaining symptoms:
- short term and working memory still feel a bit impaired
- still feel not as rapid or confident in cognition and demeanor (the feeling of caffeine working well after a long time of abstinence or dialed in testosterone levels and AR sensitivity)
- sensitivity to testosterone supplements like Creatine/Tongkat/Tribulus and stimulants like Caffeine/Nicotine/Bromantane is not fully restored
- premature ejaculation remains
- erections not 100% pre finasteride, but better than during the initial 1-2 months of recovery (then: 50-70% ; now: 75-80%)
Thoughts/Concerns:
- worried about negative feedback/withdrawal after cessation
- will increasing AlloP levels decrease endogenous production, increase AlloP breakdown (causing endogenous AlloP to be broken down too quickly after quitting the oral AlloP) or desensitize receptors?
- will increasing AlloP adversely affect any other neurosteroids/biomarkers?
- hoping improvements continue after cessation
- planning to take 2mg for 2 weeks and then maybe taper down or stop entirely to see if improvements sustain
- hoping to combine with stimulants/test boosters to test for synergistic effects and to see if sensitivity is restored following 2 weeks of AlloP
- AlloP helping symptoms may support the underlying driver of PFS being inadequate 5AR activity and/or abnormal receptor activity for 5AR products (esp. AlloP)
- Maybe someone with PFS would need to return to baseline (via time alone or through exogenous interventions like AlloP) and then remain in that state for a while to “repair” before improvements will last
- Once AlloP is stopped, improvements may not remain unless the body begins to 5 alpha reduce at a baseline rate and the 5AR product receptors return to their normal sensitivity
- Compared to sublingual magnolia bark (nootropicsdepot) which also got rid of PFS anxiety and some cognitive symptoms, AlloP is far less sedating. AlloP definitely seems to have other restorative effects beyond just GABAaR positive allosteric modulation.
Cautionary Studies:
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Update:
Too much AlloP over time makes my symptoms worse, especially anxiety. It may build up in one’s body (1-2 day half life I believe) so daily dosing isn’t necessary.
On the third day, 2mg morning 3mg evening made me more dulled and anxious after the evening dose. I took only 1mg this morning which also made me anxious, so I might try a day off tomorrow and see if the anxiety subsides.
edit:
strangely a 4mg nicotine lozange immediately seemed to quell my anxiety after the 1mg dose.
Allopregnanolone half life is about 9 hours I believe.
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I was quoting:
“When it is dissolved in tocopherols, the half life is probably the same as the half life of the tocopherol molecule, which is up to 48 hours in most in-vivo models.”
Post in thread ‘AlloP - Liquid Allopregnanolone For Lab/R&D’ https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/allop-liquid-allopregnanolone-for-lab-r-d.41055/post-670030