Don't Know How Much Longer I Can Go On

General Discussion
#1

Hello,

I have been having a down period mentally again (maybe not as bad as before) but I read how most people on here never recover and I get scared. I am 6 months off and in 3 blood tests, (1 at 2.5 months off, 1 at 3.5 months off, and 1 at almost 5 months off) my Free Testosterone has continued to decline.

I am scared. I have days where I feel somewhat normal but overall my life has changed from this drug and most days I do not feel myself. I thought it was getting better but now I am starting to think that I have just gotten used to my condition.

I honestly don’t know if I can keep fighting this fight. It has been 6 months now with no substantial improvements, blood tests that continue to decline, an no specialist appointment until September. Then I came on here and I read about people who continue to get worse 5, 6, even 8 years off of the drug. I did a post earlier to see if anyone had recovered from low free T and had no responses to affirm that this is possible.

I am having a lot of trouble staying positive and I honestly don’t know what to do. I have heard all of the “stay positive things may improve” but honestly it is not enough for me. I need proof that this can get better, that my bloods can improve. Fuck I am 25 years old and when I started this drug I didn’t even take the full dose and I only took it for 3 months and now I am hypogonadal. I am even considering TRT as an option and over the past month I have convinced myself that this is better than suicide and it may be okay.

ANY advice from anyone who has managed to increase Free Testosterone Levels that were out of range low (along with low total testosterone, but within range and normal LH and FSH) please help. I am asking, begging, pleading for someone to please tell me that they have improved their numbers.

I don’t know what to do.

Thank you,

Brad

#2

Chi says he is almost 100 better and he had rock bottom T levels as well. I’m much better 2 years off, hang in there!!

#3

Thank you for the reply Fina. My problem is that I am not like most people on here. I never noticed a crash. I just seem to be slowly declining with random things feeling better and random things feeling worse but my blood levels continue to decline. Did you have low testosterone and has it gone up at all? Thanks again for the reply this is just so hard. It honestly feels like a nightmare. I constantly count the days it has been since I stopped propecia and I just regret everything. I would’ve been so much happier bald. Now I am constipated every other week, having difficulty losing weight, have almost no semen volume, shrinking testicles, and a slight curve in my penis, along with weaker erections and low libido, no noctournal or morning erections.

Honestly I take the train to work every day and I can’t count how many times I have thought about just standing on the tracks in the last 6 months. I hate this drug and I feel so sad for everyone on here. I am kind of hoping that if I keep getting worse and worse, maybe eventually my testosterone will hit 0 and I will have some kind of heart attack or something. I dunno if I am making sense I am just wildly depressed and upset right now so I apologize.

Brad

#4

I’ve been there. I know exactly how you feel.
Just wanted to post a positive note that recovery is definitely possible, but it takes a lot of work, determination and some serious lifestyle changes.
Look up CDNuts posts on his recovery as a starting point.

I’ve recovered considerably from the majority of symptoms, sexual, mental and physical.
Paleo diet
Exercise with heavy weights and high intensity training
Cycling Prohormones, Alpha Hard, TBoosters for 6 weeks and then PCT(Post cycle therapy) 4 weeks, then repeat.

The biggest improvements came from Alpha Hard (AndroHard alternative) and HGHup. But I recommend following all the advice from CDNuts and making the investment of time and money into all the products you’ll need to recover.

You can look up my posts as well to get an idea of the torture I was going through. Just wanted to let you know I’m another guy who is seriously on his way to a full recovery.

#5

what typeof effects did u get from alpha hard?

#6

Hey man, hang in there, I know exactly how you feel, but you may not even have PFS, you may just have low test. I had low test from Finasteride, HRT changed my life till PFS hit (from taking Avodart for a week), it took me a few months, about 3.5 months, but I got back to a point where girls think I am buff and hit on me and I can have sex with people normally. Morning erections, if you are suicidal (as we all probably have been at some point), you have nothing to lose in trying HRT.
I recommend a low dose of test, this condition seems to make it so normal to high doses don’t work. Read my thread, I discuss my protocols, you owe it to yourself to get your hormone levels normal. No, it won’t cure PFS, but it will improve your situation by at least 50%, which is a lot. Then you can wait for your body to recover on its own and try to help it along.
I also eat almost the Paleo Diet, but all organic, and I do lots of weight training, I look better, am stronger and healthier than most non-pfs guys. There is hope, and lots of resources in this forum with protocols to try that might help you. One thing is for sure, if you did NOT have PFS and your hormone levels were dropping like this, you would feel exactly the same.
I know it is hard, but you don’t have cancer, you will recover, you are young, your body will heal, read the recovery stories section. There are lots of people who have recovered from this, and I believe many have this condition and never know it, and many doctors get them better and never know it is PFS. Feel free to private message me if you want some advice/support. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and this is a temporary problem. Google and look for an HRT doctor, let’s get you at least 50% better.

#7

AlphaHard is a good replacement for AndroHard which is no longer available.
This was part of CDNuts recovery protocol, which I found to work by the way.

AlphaHard will increase DHT. I can confirm this to be true because my labs from a few days ago show DHT went from 264 to 451 in a span of 5 months. However, this is just ‘one’ of the list of things you need to be doing to recover.

I have been hesitant to publicly post my own recovery plan of action, until now. (There are many on this board that are critical or skeptical, so I won’t respond to negativity OR questions from those who are too lazy to research.)

Anyhow, this should get you started and motivated… Based on CDNuts Recovery Protocol.

Diet and Exercise:
Water Fasting or Juicing. Try two weeks before starting any of the items below… (IMPORTANT for many reasons)
If this is too hard, try a few days at a time or Intermittent fasting. A good book to read is “Engineering the Alpha Male”.

Eat a Paleo or Bulletproof diet and carb back load at night depending on your exercise plan
50 Foods that boost testosterone naturally: anabolicmen.com/50-foods-that-bo … ne-levels/
Avoid gluten, sugar and alcohol
Lift heavy weights three times per week (Weightlifting boosts Testosterone)
Do HIIT once per week at first, then go to twice per week (High Intensity Interval Training boosts Testosterone)

Supplements:
Whey Protein (1 gram per pound of body weight) This includes BCAA’s
B complex (B2, B3, B6 and B12) I take the sublingual dissolving B12
Magnesium (Anxiety) (powder which dissolves in water is best)
Omega3’s (Inflammation) 5grams daily, 3grams AM and 2grams PM (Get high quality with balanced DHA/EPA)
Zinc
Selenium
Rhodiola (fatigue)
Resveratrol
CoQ10
D3 (5000 to 10000 iu) daily
L-Tryptophan (sleep)
Calcium D-Glucarate (removes excess estrogen)
Lugol’s IODINE (3 drops under tongue, and paint testicles)

Cycle (Prohormones) and T-Boosters for 6 weeks, then do PCT 4 weeks

Prohormones:
Alpha Hard (DHT -This is a replacement for CDNuts AndroHard which is no longer available)
forerunnerlabs.com/ProductDe … tCode=7275
DHT option #2 is Andractim
4x in the AM and 4x in the PM (directions say 3x twice daily, but this is underdosed compared to AndroHard)
HGHup
bodybuilding.com/store/app/hghup.html
Promotes generation of 5ar and Androgen Receptors

Natural T-Boosters:
These should be rotated daily to prevent the body from building a tolerance.
1. Tribulus Terrestris (high in Protodioscins)
2. Mucuna Pruriens
3. Tongkat Ali (LJ 100)
4. D-Aspartic Acid
5. Horny Goat Weed
6. Maca Root

PCT 4 weeks
The PCT stack I bought was recommended by CDNuts:
Wicked Supplements.com (Australia)

Note: Use an Aromatase Inhibitor to control estrogen.
Options:
• Calcium D-Glucarate 2x a week
• DIM 1x week
• EstroX
• Anastrazole (prescription)
• Letrozole (prescription)

I have not included the prescriptions or TRT I use because each person is different and age matters a lot.
But I will say that I’m back on TRT after taking a rest. Also using Andractim (DHTCream.com) after I cycled AlphaHard (Don’t combine these two). Doc put me back on HCG to counter testicular shrinkage which occurs while on TRT.
If you go on TRT, just be careful to not use too much. I learned the hard way. And if anyone decides to use Andractim, my doc said the dose recommendation is too high. It should be the size of a Peanut M&M, one on both sides of rib cage.

Hope this helps

#8

Important correction…
The following was meant to be listed under AlphaHard:
“4x in the AM and 4x in the PM (directions say 3x twice daily, but this is underdosed compared to AndroHard)”

This is NOT the dose schedule for Andractim!

#9

Have you posted the blood test results? I know it’s hard to stay positive, but you need to focus. It’s not so long since you quit the treatment, and if your free testosterone level is dropping, it means that your body is still adjusting. I developed secondary hypogonadism after using Propecia. It has been like this for 6 years and I still don’t have the answer. However, I know that the problem is hormonal, and I know that it’s reversible, because I’ve been experimenting with AAS and a few other drugs (mainly testosterone enanthate and Arimidex) for several years - and I’ve had good days and periods before crashing hard again. I’m talking about feeling almost normal. My record is 3 weeks on treatment. That said, I don’t recommend this route. I’ve been off TRT for a while now, and I’m investigating the root cause. I believe that the adrenal glands are responsible. I did a suppression test with dexamethasone a few days ago. Sadly, I’ll not be seeing the blood test result as a fucking nurse managed to fuck it up (yeah, I’m so pissed that I could have strangled her). Anyway, the size of my testicles increased significantly during the night, which suggests that adrenal hormones are causing negative feedback.

I strongly recommend that you investigate the adrenal glands. Levels of 17-OH progesterone, androstenedione, serum cortisol and saliva cortisol are critical. I would also check the T3/rT3 ratio. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8415

What’s done is done. You need to decide how you’re going to deal with it. Suicide is a relief you probably will be longing for as the years go by, but it also means the end. You’ll never know what could have been. I want to recover, and I want to see those who’re responsible for my agony go down.

Edit: I just noticed that this thread is some months old. Is the OP still around?

#10

yup mate i went from bottom of the range low to out of the range high - this is how it goes. paleo diet, heavy weights are your best bets. It’s really tough mentally but you will recover.

check out my posts if you want more info.

#11

Thank you all for your replies. Just had an appointment last Friday with an Endo (who I had to wait 3 months for), and I was dissapointed to say the least. After waiting for about half hour I spent 45 minutes with his resident. She gave me a physical and we discussed symptoms.

Then after another hour the Endo came in and didn’t even sit down. He spoke with me for about 5 minutes total. On the plus side he mentioned that he does believe in PFS, but that according to him there is not enough research on how to treat the condition. Also, as my total T was “not low” in his opinion (it was 380 and I’m 26 years old, how is that not low), he said he didn’t want to do T therapy at this point. When I explained that my Free T has come in below range 3 separate times he dismissed this and said that my family physician should not have ordered Free T labs because they were inaccurate, and total T is the only accurate measurment (which I completely disagree with). In the end I managed to get another appointment with him 6 months down the road at which point he wants to re evaluate my symptoms. I also managed to get a requisition form to test my total testosterone once more, as I have already had this tested once I want to see if it is trending downards like my Free T was.

All in all i think I am going to take matters into my own hands. It has been a year almost and I am ready to start pursuing treatment. I will look into ordering some of the supplements listed. and changing diet and lifestyle which will be extremely hard. I want to start by getting more sleep, as I average about 5-6 hours per night on weeknights (due to work schedule, not due to sleeping problems as I have been lucky enough to avoid these thus far). On weekends I tend to stay up late as well and may only get 7-8 hours. So overall my sleep is lacking and this is the first area that I wish to target.

Next I plan to tune up my diet a bit (I wont ever eat purely healthy as I have tried before and I love food too much). I will try adding more salads and vegetables into my daily routine and cutting back on the fast food.

I will also try to exercise and take supplements, but exercise may be difficult with my work and school schedule.

Thanks again for all of your responses, I appreciate all of your support and information more than you know.

Brad