Do I definitely have PFS?

[abctruck]

Hello all, my introduction form is attached below, but my main question is this. At what point can I be confident that I have PFS?

I quit Propecia roughly 3 weeks ago, and for two weeks felt great. Then came the crash this week, which I understand is common. But does EVERYONE who gets the crash get persistent PFS? Or do people sometimes get the crash and then recover in the next few weeks? Or is it the case that only people who don’t crash at all make full recoveries? I know there’s not a lot of data, but what is the general sense on this question?

Thank you.

0) Where are you from (country)?

USA.

1) How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)

Google — Propecia side effects or something similar.

2) What is your current age, height, weight?

27, 5’10’’, 165 pounds.

3) Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of exercise?

Yes, cardio and pushups / pull-ups.

4) What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?

I eat healthy — basically a loose Paleo diet.

5) Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?

Hair loss.

6) For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?

Roughly 12 months

7) How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?

26 — July/August 2013

8) How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?

27 — July/August 2014

9) How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?

Cold Turkey.

10) What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?

Propecia.

11) What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?

1mg daily.

12) How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?

Extremely minor ED and possibly, but not definitely, brain fog throughout those 12 months. Minor and not really a problem, so I kept on it.

13) What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?

After quitting, I felt great for two weeks but have since crashed and am experiencing sexual dysfunction

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[x ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
Erectile Dysfunction
Complete Impotence
Loss of Morning Erections
[x ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
Loss of Nocturnal Erections
Watery Ejaculate
Reduced Ejaculate
x] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
Confusion
Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
Slurring of Speech
Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
Severe Depression / Melancholy
Suicidal Thoughts

Physical
Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
Penis curvature / rotation on axis
Testicular Pain
Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
Weight Gain
Gynecomastia (male breasts)
Muscle Wastage
Muscle Weakness
Joint Pain
Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
Prostate pain
Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
Increased hair loss
Frequent urination
Lowered body temperature

Other (please explain)

14) What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?

None so far.

15) If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?

No blood tests yet. I just came off the drug.

16) Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?

Not really, honestly. Standard story.

17) Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.

I had very few side effects while on the drug. But after quitting, I felt great for two weeks (maybe I just wasn’t noticing the sides while on propecia), but now am suffering very bad sexual problems.

Does everyone who experiences this crash get full blown PFS, or is it still possible that my symptoms will resolve in a few weeks/months? I only just crashed from my 2 week recovery a few days ago.

[depressedguy]

Only a few men recover pfs. %5 chance or less.

[mcibofh]

I couldn’t find any 100% recoveries after crash. I think anyone that gets numbness and fatigue/insomnia is pretty much fucked. There is really 1 recovery that people hang there hat on here. CDnuts. His “recovery” took 7 years or something. Unfortunately for this one “recovery” there are a lot more that are over 7 years still in hell. For me pain and numbness spread all over like a virus. Even fucked up my vision, cognition, digestion, memory, feelings, face. The vast majority of protocols here are useless or dangerous.

[abctruck]

So 8 days after posting the OP, I have mixed news/results. I am now getting nighttime, morning, and spontaneous erections as well as some libido back. My penis is not as big as it once was and possibly has more prominent veins, but it seems to work fine. I’d call it 90%. I have no brain fog, sleep problems, or any negative cognitive effects to speak of.

But when I ejaculate, I don’t get libido / erections back for a solid 36-48 hours. My penis does get thin and cold during this 36-48 hour period.

Also, my scrotum skin is very wrinkly. I think this is because my scrotum is not as full as it once was, which used to stretch the skin and remove the wrinkles. When I first crashed, my scrotum was tight and didn’t hang low at all, but now it hangs low like it used to. But it is still wrinkled.

If my symptoms do not get worse, I could potentially live a normal life. I know some people’s symptoms tend to get slightly better over time, and some people’s get worse as time goes on. But what is the most probable course of events? Statistically speaking, am I more likely to stay the same, get slightly better, or get worse?

[Taca]

If you feel like your erections are at 90% then you might be fine. My libido is basically back but I still have ED issues. If my erections are at 90% I’d prob just move on with my life.

[spstriken]

Hello all, my introduction form…
I had very few side effects while on the drug. But after quitting, I felt great for two weeks (maybe I just wasn’t noticing the sides while on propecia), but now am suffering very bad sexual problems.

Hi

if you did not have sides on the drug then why did you stop it?

[abctruck]

Update: So 3 weeks after my crash and a week+ of zero libido, total and complete impotence, dead shrunken rubber bent-to-the-left penis, and wrinkled scrotum, I appear to have no more symptoms of PFS.

I definitely, 100% had a crash. I had the standard week and a half surge in energy, libido, and sexual function that started a few days after quitting finasteride. Then, I had a hard crash for a week. That week was total hell. From then until now, a little over 3 weeks later, I feel 95% to 100%.

I did a lot supplement wise, but I have no clue whether this “recovery” --I hope it’s permanent and not temporary-- is attributable to the things I did or just to my body naturally fixing itself. It was probably a combination of both.

In any case, I:

– Started lifting heavy in the gym and stopped all cardio.
– Took two high quality fish-oil pills 3x’s daily. 700mg EPA and 500MG DHA per 2 pills.
– Took 2,000mg’s of Acetyl-L Carnitine alongside of 400mg Alpha Lipoic Acid 3x’s daily.
– Took 2,000mg’s of L-Arginine 3x’s daily.
– Took a Vitamin B Complex 1x daily.
– Took 50mg’s Zinc 1x daily.
– Took 250mg’s Magnesium 1x daily.
– Took a low potency multivitamin 1x daily
– Took 4,000 IU of Vitamin D 1x daily.
– Cut all sugars and simple carbs – eating vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, and oats / sweet potatoes only for carbs.

My penis is now heavy and full of blood even when flaccid. I get morning and evening erections that persist so long they actually become annoying, but I’ll never truly complain about that again.

The only reason I won’t say I’m FULLY back to normal is that I still have a slight left-bend in the penis, which came about within a matter of days of crashing. I also do feel quite tired for 12-18 hours after ejaculation and the penis does narrow a bit during that time. But I do recover back to normal after 24 hours.

I am still going to get bloodwork done just to have it in case this is a temporary recovery.

[abctruck]

Alright guys, this is probably my last post. I was 100% impotent for weeks and could not get even a 10% erection. I am now at 100% libido and 100% erectile function and it’s holding steady like that.

It is absolutely not true that nobody ever recovers after crashing. I know my experience was very very short term compared to what many of you guys are going through, but I absolutely had a full on crash. Now it’s all better.

My body might have just fixed itself, or it may be that in combination with the regimen I went on. In either case, please try the regimen I outlined. It might help you. The high-dose L-Arginine and Acetyl-L-Carnitine in particular are what helped me, I think. If you’re currently taking these supplements, get off them for one month. Then get back on at high doses, along with the other things I mentioned. I’m not saying that this is some kind of cure – again, I acknowledge that I may just be extremely lucky. But please try it – I honestly believed it helped me recover.

Hit the weights hard and do the regimen. Please try it.

[adaname1]

Hi there. I am suffering from very similar symptoms to the ones you described earlier in this post and am considering taking on your medical regimen.

Did this regimen work for you in the long run?
Did you have to keep the regimen up to continue seeing results or did you get to a steady state after a number of months?

I just wanted to clarify some things about the regimen.

• You mentioned “Took 2,000mg’s of Acetyl-L Carnitine alongside of 400mg Alpha Lipoic Acid 3x’s daily.” Does this mean 6,000mg’s L-Carnitine daily and 1,200gm Lipoic Acid daily or is 2,000 L-Carnitine and 400gm Lipoic Acid the total daily figure?
• Similar question for L-Arginine

Thanks in advance!