has anyone here had their DHT levels checked? since propecia tries to reduce the DHT level to help with hair loss, it would be good to know what its at now. DHT plays a major role in prostate health, and the prostate plays a major role in sexual health.
Interestingly it is looking like DHT is not the cause of prostate problems as previously thought.
Becuase DHT increases the size of the prostate during puberty it was thought that it could be the problem in terms of BPH and possibly a cause for prostate cancer.
To date there is no validated evidence that links testosterone or DHT to prostate cancer.
Furthermore phase 3 trials of Andractim (DHT replacement gel- as a treatment for gynecomastia or an alternative to TRT for hypogoandism)
showed paradoxically that increases in DHT post puberty did not increase the size of the male prostate.
It has subsequently been found that the prostate is sensitive to estrogens, that they can cause BPH and it is thouyght in many circles that it is too much estrogen that maybe the problem for the prosate.
Note:
Testosterone and DHT can increase prostate cancer once it exists, hence the often used androgen blockade treatments- but they do not cause prostate cancer- at least their has been no validated proof to suggest they do.
DHT is very important for libido and erectile function. A lack of it constitutes hypogonadism.
right… but finasteride is supposed to block the conversion to DHT, so that your body has less of it. its mostly prescribed to reduce the size of your prostate to men in their 40s or 50s, who at that age, are making more DHT then a guy in his 20s. so, maybe our bodies are making less DHT then before and this in turn is affecting our protate, and causing all those side effects.
if you look up hormonal Prostatitis, youll noticed that it has very similar symptoms as what we are going through. it normally happens to older men, at a time when their DHT levels increase with age.
i think they key to all of this, is our prostate. its responsible of about 2/3rds of the seamen our bodies produce. thinking back to when my sex drive was normal, i remember that if waited a day or so without having any sexual release, i would feel like i had my body had TONS of seamen built up that just wanted to get out and thats why my sex drive as so huge. now a days, this dosnt happen at all and my sex drive is low. so i think if we cure the prostate, and get it to produce seamen like it should, then our sex drives will return.
Skippy,
Finasteride causes shrinkage and involution of the prostate (see Studies section). It also decreases seminal and epididymis weights.
I’m not sure if these changes are completely reversible, although there are studies showing T/DHT can help.
I’m not a doctor, so I plan on asking such questions at my next appointment with an Endo.
and i refer back to previous posts, questioning whether the prostate effectively acts as a ‘store’ for DHT.
2 of the guys who have now recovered from the sexual side effects report having prostate problems now!
who claims that they recovered and what did they do?
i think they ALWAYS had prostate problems. i think our prostate is the cause of all of this.
DHT does not increase the size of the prostate in normal men without prostate cancer post puberty according to new information.
DHT gel was found to decrease prostate size in ageing men in the massive phases 3 trials of Andractim DHT by Besins pharmaceuticals.
DHT gel is seen as a superior treatment for hypogoandism in elderly men because it doesn’t cause prostate problems or gynecomastia.
Furthermore people are describing prostate trouble with finasteride based products when finasteride lowers DHT- not increases it- lowers it.
Increasing DHT via a gel has an effect on the HPTA of reducing testosterone which in turn results in a lowered level of estrogen. The lowered level of estrogen is what was though in the Andractim trials of reducing incidences of BPH and reducing prostate size.
I think the cause for increase prostate size and prostate problems in ageing men is increasing SHBG and estradiol.
It is SHBG and estrogen which increase with age and are at their highest in old age. DHT levels are actually at their highest not in aging when we see prostate problems, but actually in youth when we see little to no prostate problems. DHT is at its highest when it is fuelled by high healthy testosterone levels.
All the new info is point to estrogens and SHBG being the problem of the prostate when elevated as opposed to the old theory that it was all down to testosterone r DHT.
Prostate problems are thought to be mutifactoral in origin though so there maybe very complx interactions that marry together to produce problems including age and genetics etc.
my whole point is… that most of us have not gotten our DHT levels checked. maybe they are too high or too low, and maybe that can shed some light on the problem.
DHT testing is an absolute requirement of hormonal pathology/endocrine testing. It is boardering on the absurd and pointless to not test DHT post propecia use.
Or to put it another way…your dead right.
I copied this a while ago from a website, I think it was ‘bodybuilding.com’. I never noted the author though.
It may have some relevance here;
‘‘It is important to understand that even though testosterone is the active androgen in muscle, and DHT exhibits relatively little direct anabolic effects on muscle in men, DHT is still very important for the full performance enhancement effects from testosterone. What I specifically mean here are the effects of DHT on the central nervous system that lead to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress—not to mention optimal sexual function and libido.
I have heard several anecdotal reports of individuals who have stacked testosterone with Proscar (a 5-AR inhibitor) and have noticed significantly reduced performance enhancement effects. What’s going on here? We know it couldn’t be due to the inhibition of the direct anabolic activity of testosterone on muscle anabolism. Most likely it is due to the reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body that contribute to the ergogenic effects. Specifically the CNS, which is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and greater recoverability. Another possibility is a reduction in the production of androgen dependent liver growth factors (such as IGF-1), since DHT is an important androgen in the liver’’.
I wouldn’t bother to copy information from bodybuilding sources.
If they were complete rubbish then at least people could easily dismiss them;
The fact is because they contain a lot of truth, but a certain amount of rubbish, many people take what is in them for fact and in doing so get a warped picture of reality.
Their information is tailored to the abuse of AAS and they are often cut and paste jobs where the person posting has little understanding of what they are talking about. Like I say there is enough rubbish contained within them to leave a lot of people with the wrong idea.
I took a blood test for DHT and other hormones a couple of days ago and will post my results in about a week.
Josh
robin, I like that passage you pulled out. that makes a lot of sense to me what DHT might be, and because this is what also feels like is happeneing. Did you se my post on “Nerve damage” This makes sense.
It might just be like paralyzing a limb sometimes, or suffering an injury, most people in time often get full feeling and function back, nerves regenerate, and things feel normal again,
but sometimes, rarely, people lose feeling after injuries for good sometimes.
Anyway, was that talking about people who take steroids and Proscar together? And in what context? Was it talking about how it can just hurt their muscles and strength ALL OVER, in general?
anyway, good lookin out…
im really looking forward to see what everyones DHT levels are.
im starting to firmly believe that, at least in my case, all my symptoms are caused by a form of prostatitis. perhaps DHT levels have a lot to do with this condition.
do you always feel like you have the urge to pee, and have trouble drinking anything without having to pee? How many people out there experience this too? And how long has it been lasting for you all too?? Am I gonna be like one of those guys in the Avodart commercial forever now?
I’m sorry, but this is what I also think and why I think I have some symptoms and form of prostatitis as well.
I just think my prostate is seriously injured. and I think there are many forms pf prostatitis…
YES. i have exactly that.
to give you an example, i was driving around today and was drinking a bottle of water (normal size, nothing to big). i had to go pee at least 3 times, in a row. it was no more then 15min since the last time i went, when i had to go again.
i also noticed that if i sit at the computer for too long, my prostate pain will act up.
i recommend going to a book store and checking out the stuff they have in the health section, about different medical conditions. a lot of times, if you just search the internet, you’ll only end up getting the short version of the whole problem/condition. i was actually reading a book put out by Merk (of all people) that had some good info on prostate health and sexual disfunction.
most importantly is to remember that we are all in this together and to keep your head up. life is full of surprises. you might wake up one day and find yourself perfectly back to normal, or at the very least, find out that we have a diagnosis and cure.
I have had to pee a lot too. My uro said that I have prostatitis because I had white blood cells in my urine. He prescribed me an antibiotic.
However, I have been reading a lot on the effects of estrogen on the prostate. It turns out that excess estrogen can cause BHP.
Anyway, I thought it was quite a coincidence that I would get a bacterial infection in the prostate at the same time I was taking propecia. The only thing that I could think of was that maybe the prostate was weakened by the propecia and allowed an infection. Anyone, is there any credibility to this???
I have decided to stop taking the antibiotic since they are known to have estrogen increasing effects. Personally, I feel more like I have an excess of estrogen, which is causing the prostate issues. I should know by the end of next week after blood tests. Anybody disagree with this theory??? Hypo, what do you think???
dood… get back on the antibiotics like the doctor said! there is a good chance that they may cure all of your problems.
i know we all have a lot of theories and ideas, but if your doctor gave you a diagnosis, give it a try.
Some nen with hypogonadism and elevated estrogens get bladder infections and prostate problems.
I cannot pass comment on the cause of your specific problems.
I would have thought it made sense going with what your doctor say in terms of antibiotic and at the same time getting hormone pathology that includes SHBG and estradiol.
This same uro said…and I quote “it is impossible for finasteride to cause these side effects”.
My only concern with the antibiotics is that Dr. Shippen’s book states that they increase the production of estrogen. Can anyone prove or disprove?? I have been searching for quite a while, but I have only found it linked to breast cancer.