Dealing with suicidal thoughts

Symptoms Neurological
#21

Not necessarily. We may have a genetic predisposition to developing problems from what this drug does to the endocrine system.

The hormonal balance issue is simply that there isn’t much consistency in our hormone variations. Many of us have entirely different hormonal states yet share the same symptoms. I know what your trying to do by figuring this all out on your own, I did the same thing when it first all hit me last year. So far the androgen receptor down regulation theory seems like our most viable bet, outside of trying to understand why 5AR might be down-regulated all on its own. Looking at it from a purely hormonal state none of us here have found a root cause, we have to go deeper than that. Which is what is currently going on over in Italy.

It has been stated that the research there has already had significant findings regarding the condition. This is no reason to stop other research efforts, in fact this will probably spur more research, but instead of individual members here trying to theorize about the condition its best to leave that up to scientists at this point… input is helpful but believe me when I say you talking about hormonal imbalances is simply rehashing the same old stuff that has been discussed on here for years and still continues.

If you want to be one of the guys on here exploring various theories, you can do that. But instead if I were you I would leave it be and try to focus on getting media/government attention focused on the problem. A bunch of non-scientist 20-30ish year old guys brainstorming on the internet isn’t going to solve this. But getting more attention on the problem has and will help others become interested in helping us.

#22

Here are the main points of the theory. Without going into exact detail it covers essentially all potential side effects stemming from the one alteration made to our bodies… a silenced androgen receptor signal.

  1. AR overexpression (hypersensitivity) as a result of decreased androgen (DHT) availability
  2. Silencing of AR signal through negative autoregulation as a result of overexpressed AR signal
  3. Lacking induction of the 3α-HSD enzyme as a result of a silenced AR signal
  4. Epigenetic changes in homeostasis resulting in permanently altered levels of gene expression

The real question becomes what makes “us” experience this “negative autoregulation” that the majority of users never experience? Maybe we all have really tight parameters regarding internal homeostasis within our bodies. This is something that is currently being explored.

In any event AR hypersensitivity is something that has been documented previously when androgen deprivation was used. The question becomes why did our bodies react to the androgen rebound in such a hostile manner.

Also if THIS IS the reason for our condition and we DO find a cure/treatment. Then it could be assumed that we could potentially up-regulate our own androgen receptors to an even higher level than they were before finasteride use. Thus essentially making us uber alpha males (at least I like to think this).

#23

You make a very valid point pecker. Though i’m in a situation with a senior endocrinology researcher, Which has the resources of the best hospital in my state. I just need some for of explanation. I have heard recently that blood levels aren’t always accurate and siliva tests measure your active free levels. Came back with low cortisol, high e2, low test. Estrogen causes a lot of our problems. But again i’m not a scientist, just have a very rough understanding…

“Hormones are secreted from the thyroid, kidney, testes, ovaries, pancreas, thymus, pineal, hypothalamus, adrenal, parathyroid and pituitary glands. Some types of hormones are insulin, adrenaline, vasopressin, calcitonin, triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxin (T4).
Insulin manages how the body uses glucose and is created by the pancreas. Adrenaline is created by the adrenal glands and helps the body deal with stressful situations by increasing oxygen levels to the muscles and brain, plus suppressing nonessential functions such as digestion. Vasopressin comes from the hypothalamus and regulates electrolytes and blood pressure. The thyroid gland produces calcitonin, T3 and T4 hormones.”

Estrogen down regulates --> 5ar2 activity —> low 3 adiol-g. I gurantee if you check your active e2 it will be higher. I got my results today.

I’m no smarter than anyone on here, there’s a lot more of your that are more into the science of things. I’m just making a general assumption based on what i’ve seen. This is just a theory.

Of course test is going to be down regulated if you inject it…Because of high active E2. Why do people have temp recoveries on TRT and E inhibitors?

#24

I want to see the science then i’ll believe it.
Anyone can sit down and write up a theory that fits. I’m not denying it isn’t right. But i find this really hard to believe…

You said you had used anabolic steroids prior to using propecia? is it possible you already had an internal hormonal imbalance? propecia just made it worse?

#25

  1. Not many people have come up with a all inclusive theory that logically and scientifically makes sense. So no, not everyone can. I have the full theoretical writeup the science is good and based on previously proven data.

  2. anabolic steroids can cause hypogonadism, hormonally I am not suffering from classical hypogonadism… you want science but are not being very scientific, what kind of hormone imbalance are you talking about? You have to be more specific. Besides the classic PFS marker of low 3adiolg my hormones are pretty good. My E2/SHBG ratio might be a little off but a slight adjustment here is not going to fix the multitude of problems going on. Realize that high E2 can cause depression but not the type of catastrophic depression many of us here including myself have experienced. You have to look at the big picture here… the combination of side effects, and the severity with which they occur. You want hard science? Like I said the scientists ALREADY have significant findings relating to the current androgen receptor down regulation theory… there really isn’t anymore discussion needed in regards to a mere hormonal imbalance, that alone points to this being far more novel and complex than that.

Maybe it won’t end up being the needle in the haystack we’re looking for but its something that will help lead us deeper into the problem. Looking at hormones and trying to figure out the problem from there is like trying to draw a picture of a sunken ship while your floating on the surface 2 miles (3.2 km) above it, looking through dirty dark water. The scientists are basically taking a submarine down to that sunken ship and trying to draw the picture from there… their view is going to be much better but its still dark at the bottom of the ocean so things may remain unclear for sometime.

#26

Can you please link me this information? Or what’s been written up so I can give it to the researchers?

#27

PM me your email address.

#28

Propeciashiz… sorry to hear the tough time you’re having with this. Hang in there though, you’re still in the early phase… things do level out for a lot of guys over time. I know this doesn’t help much to hear but it’s all I can say.

Are you able to work out? If so… get some daily cardio in to help improve your mood. Fish oils help here as well. Lift weights a few days a week as well if you can as well… and switch to a more paleo oriented diet.

Even though you’ve made some douchey comments… I’m really sorry to hear that. Fuck… this drug has really messed with people’s lives. You can climb back up man… maybe not the same job/employer but you can find another route to success.

Sorry for all the platitudes guys.

#29

Yeah sorry about that, was sort of a social engineering experiment I was trying…nothing personal. Wasn’t probably a good idea considering the state everyone here is in. Anyway thanks for your positive words.

#30

You bastard! I kid… I kid.

Anytime bro… I’m sure you’ll find a way back up. I’m working on my own comeback right now.

#31

Jesus this is an awful state. My brain fog has not gone, I feel completely dead and my eyes look old and sunken. I’m 23 years of age for Christ’s sake!

Going to the doctor today, what should I tell/ask him!? I don’t know where to start and it sounds as if a GP doesn’t have a clue either.

#32

Regular horomonal changes CAN cause servere depression, anxiety and all of our symptoms. There is no doubt. People shoot themselfs when they quit steroids.

I know that when I quit testosterone and my test was below range, all I could think about was killing myself and that merck had beat me. But I held on and within a few months I am back and my pre fin normal, I do not think about killing myself.

I posted a link to a post on a forum where a woman changed here hrt from estrogen/meth-test to estradiol only. She was suddenly bed ridden with anxiety, muscle loss, basically totally screwed. When she switch back she started recovering in hours.

All my symptoms get worse when my quiting T and all my syptoms get better for a short time when lowering E2. - But does not last.

I doubt anyone on here has good siliva test / estrogen / DHT and cortisol levels.

#33

Jamie London -
How did your doctor appt. go? Can you post your blood results?

Also - hang in there…things will get better. It may take time, but I have no doubt they will get better.

#34

I wouldn’t say all of us continue to lose hair. If you take my case, for example, I used to lose 50% more hair than nowadays and my face is not as oily as it used to be.

My dad was completely bald - and I’m certain I would be like him nowadays if it weren’t for finasteride. I can say that for sure because I started losing hair when I was 18 and only started taking finasteride when I was 25.

#35

Ok, so i am on that stage. Every day i think about giving up. I am sooo tired and suffering too much. I cant avoid these thoughts now. Things got really worse after last december when i developed gastritis. I ve been trying to heal it for six months ( i am on the third medication, seems like my body doesnt heal inflammation well now). There is improvement but still not the way it was before. My diet is even more restricted now which does not help with depression.

I can´t help but feel hopeless and lonely. I am back from the dr (gastric dr.) and he thinks my stomach is fine… he says i am going to stay like this. It is not fine! I hate all of this. These moron drs dont even listen to you.
I used to be soooooo healthy. Anything healed so easily for me, every medicine worked fine. I feel like a 90 year old now, but worse because people do not believe in me.

They look at me and as i look healthy, i am labeled crazy. So tired of this. This disease is destroying my relationship with my family. They dont believe me because my tests come back normal.
I have been feeling so much fatigue it is ridiculous. My adrenals seem to be really weak, i tried to exercise and i was in bed for the next days.
I hate not having energy to work. I hate not trusting my body so i cant have a job commitment. I hate not feeling productive, i hate being afraid that anything will make me crash again. I hate this instablility, and the fear.

I am not feeling so much depression so to speak. It is not that bad. But everything seems absolutely pointless. I put so much effort in having a minimum of balance, only to crash later on. I just want to be alone and i wish i could make time go by faster. I watch the news and i catch myself being envy of someone who was murdered. How fucked up is that? And it has nothing to do about sex life… at this point i dont even care about sex anymore.

#36

Hey guys,
Just want to say that i am feeling better today, it seems i had to put that pressure out, and writing about it was very good. Thanks for the messages you sent me, it is great to feel you have people who understand you. I am going to stay away from the site for a few days. Thanks again!