Actually - they didn’t. What they had was a study called RIGOR which showed a 2 times higher incidence of heart attacks from Vioxx when compared to the pain killer Naproxen. What Merck argued, and successfully in many cases, was that this data could be interpreted as Naproxen REDUCED heart attacks, instead of Vioxx increasing them. They were able to play fast and loose with that data because it was ambiguous.
DGreene - I know you are a glass half empty guy - and that’s cool. But where is the ambiguity in the documents SA posted? Just saying…Merck is in deep shit if causation is shown.
I already do…and I will be following. The noose is tightening Ken…
I’m being realistic. You don’t think families were furious to have their family members murdered by corporate greed? You don’t think there are people still out there who have lost their loved one to Vioxx? But yet, Merck is still around, no one went to jail. Furthermore, Merck hasn’t changed. They made a calculated risk promoting this drug and for them it paid off. Kenneth Frazier and Dick Clark (who I bet is more at fault here than Frazier) are heralded as great CEOs and given awards and bonuses and shit.
Why don’t you call Lainie Keller and ask her to explain her lie. 908-423-4187 Or is it to much work? Is this old hag “too big and powerful” for a young man?
I’m not pessimistic, I’m realistic. I have no doubt that the research at B&W will provide proof that finasteride caused persistent physiological changes and I also believe that they will find out what is wrong. I know they will find out the mechanism of PFS. BUT, I don’t know what our chances of being cured are. When I look at all the diseases that have been studied for years and the billions of dollars spent towards them, the odds are unfortunately stacked against us. The unique thing here is that this is not a disease a person develops naturally like cancer. If we never took propecia, most likely we’d all be healthy right now. Also, unfortunately in the US, we’ve seen many instances where companies are so powerful, they can get away with anything (Merck, Goldman Sachs, BP, etc.)
I don’t care about Goldman Sachs, BP, Vioxx or anything else completely irrelevant to our situation. As we progress, I wish this forum would only be for the men who work and everyone else could go to another forum to talk about Phantom DHT, Parasites, or how mean the world is.
Hi Guys
It 01.20 hours here in the uk and I’m unable to sleep thanks to this lovely drug!!!
Having one of my bouts of insomnia
Any way, can I act as moderator here and request we all remain civil and value each others opinion.
One thing we all want is justice, will we ever get it???
Hell knows. Been realistic too, I very much doubt it.
As my doctor first said to me when I went to him about PFS symptoms…
" there are plenty of men I prescribe 5mg of finasteride to and they are fine, you only took 1mg"
And it’s comments like these that I too have my doubts about compensation or justice.
Take care for now guys and be nice to one another, after all only we share the common understanding of this hell!!!
Did you call her? Did it change anything?
All you do is ask dumb questions and irritate people. Welcome to my ignore button.
So am I. ALS, Parkinsons, etc. Sure - science has spent some time and some money on them, but not as much as you think. Do you know how much money has been spent on ALS research over the past 50 years? 68 million dollars. That’s it. We’ve already got almost a million dollars that’s been donated by the Foundation to research. Secondly - think about the types of men’s drugs that are the BIG sellers for pharma. Viagra, Cialis, et al. Sex sells. What is wrong with us? We’ve been shut down sexually. Studying exactly how Propecia did this has HUGE implications for future libido and performance enhancing medicine. If anything - I think the PFS guys could be Henrietta Lacks of sexual medicine. So do I think we’ll get pushed to the side? Hell no…if anything, science will be trying to get a piece of us - try to figure this out so they can profit from it.
Propecia came out BEFORE Vioxx. ^ statement doesn’t apply…but what has changed is the public’s perception of Merck, and that has big implications for us.
it honestly seems absurd that there is such negativity and pessimism at a time like this … we have just had our single greatest moment as a group (and it will only get better) … seriously, drop the negativity, it is so obvious that it accomplishes absolutely nothing
To dgreene’s point that “Merck hasn’t changed,” jorbie is correct – the company HAS changed.
Everyone needs to read “All the Justice Money Can Buy” to understand not only the events in the Vioxx case, but the overall Merck time line. Vioxx and Propecia were developed during the Merck regime of the mid-90s. That was the first time in US pharmaceutical history when profits and greed, rather than science and public safety, drove product development and marketing.
But the problems with Propecia took a few more years to come to public awareness than those of Voixx did, mainly due to the embarrassing nature of the damage and the fact what we now know PFS to be was not recognized at all by the medical community. In fact, as we all can attest, most doctors dismissed PFS complaints as crazy.
In any event, Merck is being far more closely scrutinized by the FDA these days, and Merck knows it must do a better job of self-policing, as we saw last month in the Januvia case:
I’m not saying Merck is a better company now from an ethical standpoint. It’s just that they know they are being closely watched and, going forward, much strive to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.
The problem is, they’re still stuck with a second albatross from the bad 90s era, which is Propecia. They have dug themselves into a hole and now the most they can do is try and limit their financial liability while saving as much face as they can from a public relations point of view.
And, as someone on this thread already noted, if the BWH or some subsequent clinical study shows – from a purely scientific, molecular point of view – that there is a causative relationship between finasteride and PFD, Merck’s defense will go down in flames.
If it’s any consolation (actually, a comfort), note who is among the plaintiff firms:
judiciary.state.nj.us/mass-t … l-list.pdf
On page 2, you’ll see we have The Lanier Law Firm on our side. And those of you who have already read “All the Justice” know that the hero of that nonfiction work is Mark Lanier, founder of the Lanier Law Firm.
In the Vioxx trials, Lanier ripped Merck to shreds.
And I imagine he is salivating at the chance to do it again, in the name of justice.
The kind of justice money can NOT buy.
When i read the thread title i thought it was about New World Order. Propecia does fit the bill as an evil way of population control.
I agree Lennon. And whoever compared PFS to ALS and Parkinson’s - keep this in mind. Science doesn’t even know the CAUSE of ALS or Parkinson’s. Not only do we know the cause of PFS, the research coming down the pipeline will gives us a molecular understanding of the problem. That alone puts us light years ahead of diseases like ALS and Parkinson’s.
For me to feel justice I would want Finasteride removed from the market and huge financial conpensation. I’m looking like losing my job so it would be loss of income and a life of misery couple with my cognitive impairment and penile shrinkage.
My big questions though are this…
Who so far has taken on Merck regarding propecia and won?
And
What kind of compensation would each individual receive if successful?
Remind me again how the FDA made this legal and why it’s still on the market.!!!
Well it’s a fact were not in bed with nobody thanks to these fuckers
This is an ignorant statement.
Parkinson’s
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson’s_disease
“The motor symptoms of Parkinson’s disease result from the death of dopamine-generating cells in the substantia nigra, a region of the midbrain; the cause of this cell death is unknown.”
MPTP
“MPTP (1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine) is a neurotoxin precursor to MPP+, which causes permanent symptoms of Parkinson’s disease by destroying dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra of the brain. It has been used to study disease models in various animal studies.”
In the 80s doctors in san francisco were noticing a lot of young people developing Parkinson’s disease. They realized that the street drugs they were using was contaminated with MPTP, which causes Parkinson’s disease.
ALS
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyotroph … _sclerosis
ALS has genetic as well as environmental components.
“the cause of this cell death is unknown”
My bad. But at least if you are going to be negative and pessimistic, put some effort into it. Don’t just cut and paste a few things and call my research ignorant.
What causes ALS? Seriously. No one knows.
Parkinson’s? Your own cut/paste jobs says this --> “the cause of this cell death is unknown.”
What causes PFS? We know it happens in men taking Propecia, we know Propecia lowers DHT, and we know about the recovery period (for most men)…among other things we know…that to me sounds like a hell of a running start…
Stop being so fucking negative man. We have all lost something. Shit happens. For the first time in a LONG time we have some real hope and you want to come on the forum and be Mr. Negative. For what reason? What greater purpose does it serve? Do you feel better when you do it? Call me…I’ve reached out to several guys on the phone. Bitch to me in person. Don’t drag down the whole community. I’m sending you my phone number you pessimistic mother fucker.
Please stop quoting him. You’re going to ruin my ignore function.