Chemical castration

General Discussion
#1

This is the link of a guy who was surgically castrated: sherrylanina.tripod.com/castrationeffects.htm

The effects are EXACTLY the same as Post-Fin Syndrome.

Propecia is definitely a chemical castration drug and doctors prescribe it like candy.

The only positive is, we still have our balls, so, theoretically, no one of us has the right to state it’s irreversible unless we have the scientific proof. (by the way, chemical castration is by definition reversible)

But the effects are disturbingly the same.

#2

I really shouldn’t have followed that link. It’s all so incredibly depressing. The fact that they still have some libido and nocturnal erections just takes the piss.

#3

Lots of similarities. I’m sad.

#4

Surgical castration is effectively just an extreme form of secondary hypogonadism, this guy would only need TRT and he would be fine. This is not the same thing as PFS.

#5

Our problem is reversible. Wish more people would wake up and realise this is a problem with androgen insensitivity - with an epigenetic basis. This is reversible. People have recovered. Not many but some - that is good enough for me. Also the second group of people who take finasteride get problems and then take about 6 months to get back to normal also confirm that it is reversible. Some people are elastic and bounce back - we’re more plastic and get stuck but can be put back in the right conditions. I have been on this forum for coming up to 4 years and have gone through every theory and tested most of them but always come back to this one. It explains EVERYTHING. The crash - yes, the improvement with tyrosine - yes, Xyrem - yes, thyroid supplementation - yes, hydrocortisone sup - yes, our low 3 alpha diol blood results - yes, why TRT response is not always good - yes, the brain fog - yes, depression - yes.

I’ve experienced variation in trying things and know that this is curable.

There is hope. I just which we all pushed together in the right direction.

#6

19- this does seem like a theory that has a solid foundation, and I admire your perspective, but if it really is androgen insensitivity with epigenetic basis, why do you feel it is so recoverable? I agree that theoretically maybe it could somehow be reversed, but it seems very, very difficult (and very risky) to find the effective treatment that would reserve this (procaine IV, etc.).

I’m not saying we should all go off and mope and not do anything, and I also applaud holding a positive attitude and hope as you seem to, but I’m just wondering whether you know of a better reason to be optimistic about finding the cure than the rest of us. Because the theory you prescribe to in particular seems a bit bleak in terms of reversal.

I’m not looking to poo poo your sentiment- actually asking you to expand on your reasons for hope. Thanks.

#7

The reason I am optimistic is that the epigenome is always changing. Some people who naturally recover - this is why. Some of us are more stuck than others but there are agents such as procaine that can potentially reverse things. Under supervision it does not have to too risky. This needs to be done in a controlled environment and the exact source ideally needs to be pinpointed to achieve the best result. This is what Mew and awor are trying to get done behind the scenes.

If we know that the problem say is hypermethylation - then we can demethylate. Demethylating agents vary in potency from not very harmful things such as disulfiram (which I intend to try soon) to hardcore things like azacitidine (which are strong - main risk myelotoxicity). I would be apprehensive in trying the hardcore one until there is confirmation that our problem is caused by this. Looking at the evidence though we may need to be hit hard to change anything. But I would be prepared to take 3 months out and really try and nail it if i have to in the future. The reason you may need to be hit hard is the because of the risk of remethylation.

My point is ultimately the epigenome is changeable. So there is no reason why we can’t change back. Other people have and maybe with the right push we can too. Every other treatment idea only addresses basic symptom relief. This idea tries to change the root! I have been researching into it and i have hit the wall as far as things I can do to help. I have been trying to explain why other peoples stories fit in with it. But now we need lab confirmation. Then directed treatment. It’s all possible.

#8

Thanks 19 - that is actually more than I have absorbed about the theory and treatment so that is very helpful to me. I’ve been suffering from this for 10 years, so I am worried that I’m one of the ones with a change more resistant to recovery (although I’ve tried absolutely NOTHING to date, to treat, b/c I only figured out this link to Propecia and this site in the past few months).

(Also, fwiw, I wonder if there is anything to separating out our cases by symptoms, in terms of creating categories of who may respond to what. I am a case where I’ve had no mental sides or physical (shrinkage) sides- just sexual ones. But clearly (10 years later) they are persisitent-no nocturnal, morning, or spontaneous erections, no libido). Anyway, just a thought…)

#9

Y-C
this guy is better than us. our case is completely different. I believe cellular damage (reversible or not don’t know) or we have got some autoimmune disorder (I think about it because some people are getting worse over time.

#10

Epigenetics is a very hot area in medical research. Cancer, Heart Disease, Type II Diabetes, all these are now being looked at from an epigenetic standpoint. The reason there is so much interest in epigenetics is because scientists know that it is possible to manipulate the epigenome. There is hope, these doomsday posts help no one especially as they are completely unrelated to finasteride.

#11

I agree very much with you. This is totally unrelated, only common thing effects of low testosterone. Any body who gets his testosterone low will feel these effects.

#12

It just shows that removing of testicles results in the same mental and physical effects as treatment by 5AR inhibition. Maybe it can help research in discovering why these two different paths lead to the same changes, and so targetting the mechanisms at play.

#13

It does help confirm our suspicion that androgens and their action are key and not thyroid or adrenals.

#14

I think the OP was making a comparison between the symptoms of a chemically castrated man vs. a PFS sufferer.

If there are any researchers gleaning this forum (and I would think there are), then you never know what fact or analogy might help them decode what’s happening to us. And I’d like to err on the side of inclusion when it comes to post content.

#15

It’s definely a sad truth. Finasteride is a chemical castration pill.
I stopped it 7 years ago and had no improvement up to now. I followed all protocols suggested by the users in this forum and today I am not able to have an erection. If I could go back to the past I’d never use this poison.

God pardon me but I wish to die and rebirth. This is the only way to have my normal health again.
There’s no cure for the side effects and I pray for all users from this forum to have some luck with pfs improvements because I didnt.

#16

I do not think it’s chemical castration, it’s more like neurological damage. I have normal libido, normal sperm count and none of the mental symptoms. I have some testicular and penile pain and erectile dysfunction. I don’t care about the pain and it’s mild anyway but ED has completely destroyed my life.

#18

Did you try Disulfiram yet?

1 Like
#19

@191 yes, also curious the results of treatment with Disulfiram?

1 Like