I find what you to be saying about sleep very interesting. I too have had extreme sleep problems as my other sides have intensified. I look forward to hearing about the rest of your study, however please remember to use paragraphs next time. 
Are these supplements working?
well i had my sleep study done this past thursday and i’m not sure what will come of it all when dealing with the doctors until I meet with them three days from now. Basically, I had all the EKG, brain, and neruo monitors all over my head and body so it’s not the most comfortable situation to deal with. But i managed to get about an hour of sleep in during the beging then woke back up for awhile before finally going back to sleep for the last 2 hours of it all. all and all i wont know what to make of it and how the doctors will treat it and score it until thursday.
I’m hoping I get more time with the neuro’s instead of the 15 minute run down i got last time, and more so i hope they take me seriously. I’m basically going to open up to them and pour my heart out about the hell i’ve been going through and how i’m barely functional (all be it in a calm and colleceted manner). However, i am also going to flat out ask if they will prescribe me xyrem (GHB). The psych they sent me to was going to send me to another psych who was going to give me valium wo i dont see why i shouldnt be able to ask for xyrem in the grand scheme of it all. But in terms of recovery for me this is it, I’m going to take every measureable amount of determination i have left and try to get on xyrem so i can get decent sleep at night. the bottom line is if i dont fix the sleeping problem, or have it get better, between now and the next three weeks, i wont be able to complete school this semester thats how bad it is. I cant do it physically anymore my body is breaking down and really doing messed up stuff. but i will keep u guys informed of what happens, I’m going to get prescribed xyrem on thursday if its the last thing i do.
Sorry to hear that things have not improved. Am getting a consultation regarding gynosurgery on friday myself. Oh lord what a mess we got ourselves in to.
onni is your gyno true gyno in itself or just excess fat accumulated in the hip/chest area. i have gained fat there over the past few months, but to me it doesnt seem like actual gyno as much as just excess fat.
It’s the real thing, had it diagnosed…twice. There are actual lumps in the breast+excessive fat and tissue. I definitely look worse in my polo pique-shirts than before 
My hips have gotten bigger too, I used to have a thin lower body.
Two things first off Mew maybe you could shed some light on this for me. In terms of gyno i was only on the drug for roughly three weeks and since then over-time i have gained weight in my hips and chest area as well as up to 20 pounds of fat. The weight gain in the chest and hips was the first noticeable thing about a month or so later after i was off the drug. Since I was only on the drug for three weeks i assume that this is just fat gain in those areas and may not be permanent or gyno etc since it occured gradually upon ending the drug after only three weeks etc.
Otherwise, I go meet with the neuros tomorrow to get the results of my sleep study and hopefully get on medication to improve my sleep. It’s funny because my sleep was the first thing that was effected in terms of my fin problems and i really feel if i can fix that and get back to deep restorative sleep most of my problems will be fixed. I’m going to strongly explain the hell of my situation all be it in a calm manner and strongly push push push for having them work with me and prescribe me xyrem. it’s being prescribed more and more now for various sleeping disorders and i really feel it’s the key for me to getting deep restorative sleep. the bottom line is though my situation is so desperate right now because if i dont get on something like xyrem and start to improve my sleep and fatigue during the day i wont be able to continue with school for the upcoming semester. i will let everyone know how the appointment went and hopefully when i talk to you next my rx for xyrem will be in process, God willing.
Absolutely, it knocks you on your ass and makes you feel more refreshed in the morning.
You’ll def. notice if it’s real gyno, the growing lumps feel like there are hot razor blades in your chest and the discomfort is noticeable. Yours is probably just fat…
So had my appointment with the sleep doc today (a neruologist) who ahs his own clinic etc. Anyway, I’ll describe the whole thing in detail. When I got there i was greeted by the same dipshit of a PA (physician’s asst.) who I had talked to for 50 minutes before hand. Nice lady, although im positive my dog knows more than she does when it comes to the medical proffession. Anyway, I went back in with her and we started talking going over the same routine for 10 minutes of myself describing my sleeping and other various problems related to it etc. So she asks me “Would you like me to schedule you for sleep study?”. At this point I’m shocked/concerned/dumbfounded/and disgusted because I had already had one and this lady seemingly had no clue about that or anything else. So I basically told her I had already had one, and to get the doctor in etc. At this she promptly left and brought the doctor in so one victory there.
Upon meeting with the doctor he entered the room with a sort of puzzled and concerned look on his face etc. He basically told me that my sleep study was in fact ONE OF THE WORST HIS CLINIC HAD EVER SEEN THERE. He explained the whole graph to me showing me how it all had played out. Upon falling to sleep at 11PM I jumped into REM sleep much too early and upon entering was not there long enough. From then I slept only in stage 2 sleep for rest of the hour touching briefly into stage 3 upon waking up after only being asleep for an hour or so. I layed awake for the next 3 hours or so as a combination of my own insomnia and the fact that I had a football uniform on so its not like it was the easiest thing to go to sleep in. When I did finally go back to sleep the same pattern emerged for the next two hours, quick jumpset into REM sleep, not there long enough, and only briefing touching into level 3 sleep, with no deep level 4 sleep occuring at all. Mind you that level 3 and 4 sleep are when the body is in it’s deep restorative sleep and tissue repair and HGH release occurs etc.
Anyway, I finally had a doctor who was very concerned about the whole situation. He basically explained to me that somehow my brain had forgotten the ability to get deep restorative sleep and it would have to be re-trained over-time with the correct medications etc. He says in my case it may be a temporary stint on mediations but he doesnt know for sure etc. When I asked him what the diagnosis was he seemed lost and puzzled. This guy is a highly respected neuro and even he admitted to me that he had no, and there was no, direct diagnosis of any specific disorder he could give me except that the whole thing represented elements of other sleeping disorders such as severe insomnia combined with hypersomnia, circadian disorders, and narcolepsy. He really was puzzled by the whole thing, and although he didnt directly say it to me I could tell by what he was saying and sort of hinting at that it was something he had not quite seen before. He agreed that the two drugs accutane and propecia could have contributed as I was claiming but he had no idea how and was puzzled and concerned at the same time. He did say however he would look into the situation. he also wanted me to immedietly get a PET and MRI scan of my brain to make sure there was no injury, tumor, or inflammation as the whole thing occured rather abruptly.
As stated before in my experience I took the accutane and had some hair loss problems with that etc. However, on and off of the drug I felt fine and slept like a baby. It wasn’t until I was on Propecia that I went to sleep one night and it literally was like my body wasnt shutting down, at all and I literally had the lost the ability to sleep etc. Upon ceasing useage of it after 3 weeks most of my ED symptoms cleared but the mental and other hormonal ones have yet to along with the sleep. So im certain that finasteride kills the brain’s ability to reach deep sleep now and I have proof.
Anyway, the doctor spent over an hour with me taking me seriously and answering a lot of my questions. When it comes to medications here is the catch 22, he wants to treat me with the standard narcolepsy/hypersomnia drugs for two weeks first and then if they dont work wants me to come back and we will try something else. upon suggesting xyrem i was relieved that he wasnt against the idea and said we would look into it but seemed to think that I needed to try certain tiers of medication before he would prescribe it or my insurance was willing to cover it etc. He put me on the stimulant provigil along with a sleep drug called gabapentin. However, after researching them I dont feel its the safest way to go about handling this. The stimulant will simply chemically wire me and just drive my tired body further into the ground from being wired all day. Then the GABApentin will knock me on my ass at night. Combining more drugs just doesnt seem like the way to go, and I dont feel the combination is very healthy etc.
I talked with my father who thank God works in the insurance field and knows what our plan covers and what it doesnt. My dad looked up whether the doctor would be able to prescribe me xyrem and basically our insurance covers 400 dollars of the 500 a month cost so I would only have to pay 100 dollars a month. I explained to my father that I felt much more comfortable taking the xyrem based on the research I’ve done and the positive experience many people have on it, and no Im not just talking about Paul on this site so some research into how xyrem has been helping people with sleeping disorders and its quite amazing. I also told him I would feel more comfortable taking something only once at night rather than taking loads of stimulants throughout the day and then sleeping pills at night. My dad agreed and I will talk to my primary care physician tomorrow along with the neuro about my concerns and getting on xyrem etc. I feel rather vindicated as I know for a fact on my brief period with propecia all my major problems started the one night when my sleep got all messed up, that was what set everything else off and its been a snowball effect ever since. I know right now if i can fix the sleeping problem most of my others should clear themselves up as well. As for the guys on here I strongly urge all of you who wake up every morning and feel less energized to get a sleep study done. It isnt just simply adrenal fatigue or hormonal, the brain’s GABA transmitters I believe have been messed up because of all of this. Also do some research into hormone creation and sleep levels. You will find and obviously so that hormones such as Thyroid, Testosterone, Adrenals, etc etc are all created, distributed, and balanced during the deep sleep stages of 3 and 4 along with HGH release. This all makes total sense how the guy on here Paul cured himself with GHB and why guys cant seem to recover. How can you expect to recover if you cant hit deep sleep at night? the bottom line is you cant. I urge all you guys out there to get a sleep study done.
Today after meeting with my neuro/sleep doc with my father and going over all of the information he was finally willing to partially give into my request for approving xyrem. The whole fact that my sleep study was one of the worst they’re clinic has ever seen plus the fact that he really didnt have a concrete answer as to what medication would work best over another just led to it all. However, he still wrote a prescription for me for ambien that he wants me to try first for a few days so I may just be getting the run around as I have been for the past month or so from his place, but he did promise me that if it wasn’t showing signs of working he would put in the paperwork for xyrem by the end of the week. Honestly, i’m so tired right now and do not feel like going into the whole journey this has been over the course of a year to finally get to this point. Even more so the fact that I’m in a position to receive something that could be very beneficial to the whole situation is beyond me. It’s been a year long of suffering for me and hopefully it subsides soon.
oh and p.s to that guy “rockin” who used to post on here all the time and is now banned…suck my balls man
Hehe, 
oh what a bastard he is!! Why do u say that anyways, what did he do to you??
He is a tool though, I agree!! Good guy inside I think, but just didn’t always have the right things to say, and a cocky bastard. SOrry “rockin”!!! you son of a bitch! 
well i dont think im getting xyrem now or anytime soon. after a year of all of this i tried to go to my 8AM classes today and my body just felt like it was breaking down and i just literally felt like i was going to die. i basically just didnt have the energy or strength to push myself through the day and my classes. being that this was the 2nd week of classes in a row i missed i had no choice but to withdraw from school today. upon hearing this my parents flipped out and tried to commit me to a mental institution and also called all my doctors including my neuro and told them i was a psycopathic mess. my neuro and both endos promptly refused to treat me anymore due the nature of my case and what my parents had told them. truth be told mentally im fine, yea im a bit depressed but just more so worn out. the gabapentin wore off and only worked for a few days etc so it was only temporary relief. but most of it right now is just that physically my body is so so worn out, tired, and is just starting to break down. i pushed myself through last semester and felt like i was going to die by the end, i just done have it in me to do that again for another three months right now. so now no xyrem, no hope, i dont even know if i can go home at this point.
well i’m meeting with a different neuro today about my severe sleep disorder in terms of propecia use etc. I’m hoping he will be more willing to try and look into other treatments, ie xyrem etc, than the steady courses of gabapentin, trazedone, ambien and stimulants the neuro im currently seeing has me on. The main problem with the neuro i’m seeing is that whenever I bring up xyrem he beats around the bush stating “well I dunno”, “maybe next time”, “no i wont prescribe it yet”, etc just seems like this never ending loop where obviously he is unwilling to prescribe it but he won’t tell me flat out. i would obviously appreciate it more so if he was just honest and said no, but i think some of these docs get off on the money they make with your monthly visits.
Anyway, after talking with my cousin who is a big time surgeon out in california he stressed that I should be seeing a neuro out of an established hospital not one that runs their own private clinic. He basically said that when it comes to insurance and prescription issues hospital specialists are usually a lot more informed and flexible due to the backing they have behind them. Anyway, if nothing else I will show him the copy of my sleep study and hope to get some more insight.
As for xyrem, recently I found it very interesting in researching it’s experience being used and I’ve sort of just come up with the following. It’s main uses for narcolepsy, fibro, and severe sleep disorders seem to be by mostly if not all by females. Narco and Fibro as well as most sleep disorders seem to predominatly affect women more so than men. There doesn’t seem to be much literature on long term use for men although body builders who have used GHB for long periods in the past have claimed that the healing and GH benefits were unreal, and that it did in fact raise Testosterone. It also does seem to have a major impact on men and sexual performance. Male users of GHB have reported an intense erection lasting hours followed by intense orgasim so I wouldnt be surprised if it also had an effect on LH, FSH, and Dopamine as well. The bottom line is and I think it needs to be stated for whatever reason the drug does seem to have somewhat different effects on men and women.
I asked for Xyrem in the Drug Store. It is manufactured by USB and is used for the hospital internal regimens only. No way I can get a prescribtion for the use at home.
well yea here in the US xyrem is strictly controlled and only distributed from one pharmacy here. The reality is it is a pretty harmless drug when used properly, but because a few fuckin douchebags used the stuff back in the day for date rape the medical field is freaked out by it. Still though some neruos have no problem prescribing it not just for nacrolepsy but also for insomnia etc while others flat out refuse at all. The neuro I went to today was really a nice guy and all, but despite that just basically told me from everything I have circadian rhythm disorder and I dont need drugs to get better just therapy with a light machine etc. He also stated that it wont go away anytime soon etc etc and it will take some time to see results. Just a really nice guy, the problem is you just can’t say I took a drug that screwed with my 5AR causing neurological damage and xyrem may help so please prescribe it me. it just doesnt work like that. im hoping to work with my other neuro at the hopes that he may cave in and let me try it but who knows. My parents are flipping out at me cause right now finishing school just seems like too much and I want to take the semester off but they wont listen. They said that after the semester is over they’ll get me into John Hopkins to see the top experts in the country etc etc. But the bottom line is they’ll just tell me I have anxiety and am depressed and load me up on anti-a’s and SSRI’s. Basically, until they have a way of measuring neuroendocrine hormones we’ll just have to suffer while no one believes us.
Ithappens, see attached image. taken from scholar.google.com/scholar?q=+sl … rt=10&sa=N
… bottom of page.
If you can purchase that article, even though it is about sleep apnea, based on the screenshot you may have some proof that Finasteride effected Stage 4 sleep (Delta sleep). If you do purchase it, please consider posting it here.
Note that I do not know anything more beyond what that brief excerpt says, so it may be proof or it may not be. You’d have to purchase the article to find out.
edit: I have attached a 2nd screenshot of another article which MAY reference Finasteride as affecting stage 4 sleep… no guarantees though.
To be realy honest I do not need Xyrem or any other crap.
I am recovering. It is a slow process, because like I said it is the matter of curing leaky gut and avoiding toxic reaction, which causes progesterone imbalance, devastating endocrine system then. I use only Nystatine and a bunch of probiotics.
I see you still wait for the magic pill, which is simply a myth.
To be totaly sure and totaly honest you will get your sleep pattern back when you get rid of all american style crap that you eat and you will stop messing around with another magic pills that you wait for.
Recover is not something that happens from one day to another with a magical trick (xyrem) it is a process followed by a strict diet and good mental attitude.
ahhh majekellos you at least give me a good laugh sometimes. of course i realize that you don’t take something and recover the very next day it’s a long process etc, and i do also realize there could be some contribution from candida etc. let’s a play game if, if presumabley i get it prescribed for me in the near future i’ll take xyrem for the next few months and get deep refreshing level 3 and 4 sleep which will balance out my hormones, kick start my metabolism, increase natural hgh release which in turn will increase testosterone, increase dopamine, oh and possibly upregulate LH FSH and even 5AR activity and you can starve yourself and take probiotics. i do find it humerous that that you rip the american diet and there are a number of europeans on here as well. let me reiterate what mew told me a little while back you can take all the natural supplements you want but the bottom line is unless you take something that will chemically get you back all the natural supplements and diet wont do anything. If you’re so facinated by paul walters recovery i can assure 95% of it was because of his GHB use and not because he followed the anti-candida diet. oh and also Xyrem/GHB in reality is one of the safest drugs on the market when used properly. but go ahead try the diet alone i’ll do xyrem and we’ll see.
I personaly find most of your posts extremely funny, where you try to put everyones issue to the sleep disorder.
You sound like a sleep estremist who would advice a good sleep for the broken leg in first place. I realy appreciate comedy in your posts, that makes this forum relaxing from my real issues.
The thing that is realy common among every sociaty is the incapability of seeing “the big picture”. Most people can only see the small piece of it. It is like looking at the huge painting from 1 meter, and you are exactly doing that. Standing at your position in front of this picture is like laughing… but of yourself.
I do not expect you to see the big picture, and do not want to convince you because it would be like convincing the guy at the post office who works there for 25 years, that he could propably get the better job out there.
Stay with you sleep theory. Put all your problems to the sleep section as if you had your sleep problem just by itself. Avoid thinking how could you enhance it without your xyrem, and think about your magic pill powered by the matrix if it makes you happy.