Calcified here Accutane and Finasteride use

As per topic used both.

I used SSRIS and accutane. Accutane didn’t cause any problems. SSRIS destroyed my life.

I only had problems with Accutane.

Have been on snri’s but anyway signed up as I heard you were looking for more Accutane people.

Welcome @calcified.

Perhaps you’d like to fill out a member story so we know a little about you?

@Koivukovy, (and @Calcified) often people find that repeated exposure is the trigger. That is to say that even the same substance used twice with a break can cause a problem. It may be that your first exposure primed you for a problem down the line with another substance with a similar effect.

Possibly, but it would be good to see Accutane represented more here. I read @stephane1 comments and they are spot on.

Although they can have similar sides, they really are different.

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Members story done feel free to ask any questions.

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Welcome to the forum. We certainly need more Accutane people here. Historically the Accutane communities have been spread around all over the place - but this is the main hub for us, now. If you’re in contact with others, send them over here.

We are actively involved in producing research and need people to take our survey. We are also seeking 23AndMe submissions, so we can analyse data and draw conclusions. Additionally, we are starting off a YouTube project, so that we boost the profile of our community. People telling their stories is a powerful way to do this.

We’re serious about attacking our shared problem - but we need more Accutaners here. So if you can do anything to encourage people over here - please do so.

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Interesting how we all have these varied experiences. I had problems with both Accutane and Zoloft, but only Accutane caused permanent symptoms. Worsening of post-Accutane sexual sides on Zoloft, plus total anorgasmia at one point.

@Calcified, thanks for participating!

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I have had snri’s in the past few years for pain relief it did reduce testosterone levels dramatically, below range, SHBG way below range.
I got really weak, but they did suppress hunger, anyway jumped on juice which was a pain as had to play with aromatose inhibitors as well to prevent gyno.
Ditched juice and the snri’s and things bounced back to normal ranges.

@stephane1 what are the accutane theories in France, regarding what’s happening? Like the cause or how it causes joint pain?

There’s an anti A thing some are following, people think they are now toxic with vitamin A, but others think it’s incorrect.

Hello @Calcified,
I use a translator, sorry also for the lack of brevity, because I take this opportunity to bring other information in this answer.
it is nice to see someone here who agrees with what I see through many testimonials: “depression”, joint pain, dry syndrome and intestinal problems and chronic fatigue, largely ahead of the problems of libido regarding accutaners. But maybe this is wrong, i do not know …
However, I think this is a generalization of PSD accutane post syndrome, and it is not a bad thing, what propeciahelp and Rxisk do ( I saw a publication of David Healy that was focused on the libido for the three syndromes), it mainly benefits the PFD, but if the accutaner can be useful by their number, so much the better, we will have a “return elevator” one day … so this research is a very good thing anyway, we will not spit in the soup, we all need each other.
I also apologize if I am sometimes virulent, but I like things to be fair and balanced, with good discrimination of the causes and their effects, because there is enough confusion about all this, I have the sense of detail and horror of amalgamations and confusions, but I am for the caring more than anything.
(However, it’s been a month that I respond to myself daily on facebook to promote the survey, and I get a little discouraged, the likes are apréciable but do not put a post a high … ).
This being said, to answer you, @Calcified, I am not a specialist, I am aware of the debate on vitamin A, I do not have the answer if we must avoid food rich in vitamin A.
Accutane people are going to have their vitamin A very high, some very low, and some have normal too … I do not know how to interpret that and I did not bend over it on this issue . it’s the same kind of unknown about why some people will have no vitamin A intolerance syndrome …

I will give you my personal opinion on extreme diets, fasting, and all food supplements at the risk of hurting some, sorry in advance: the fasts are surely effective in the short term, but not a solution, and more seem to me grueling, the special diets are often the work of people sprawled from near or far to cults or dubious groups, who to have the feeling that their “super regime” or “super miraculous solution” works, go more or less subconsciously overplay Their “healing” is often about people who orga- nize and generalize too much their little experience, and if we follow them long enough, apart from their self-satisfaction that is perennial, their healing is not. The placebo effect is also to take into account, personally I avoid the maximum effect nocebo concerning me.
Regarding food supplements, it’s a huge business, personally, I do not gobble any pills, literally as well as figuratively. Well-being comes in the half-measure, stop smoking, adopt a mediterranean diet, walk a lot and a long time, and especially not be focused on this or that lever in his everyday life (macroscopic as the phenotype that is not going not, or microsopic as such or such enzyme to counter by this or that pill), because it only adds anxiety, illusion and imbalance, and this is also replay the woes of allopathic medicine. I try not to take too much of it, and to accept my condition and my pain, because I have more energy to look for the “super solution”.

I do not understand all your terms. I do not pretend to have a solution, but I try to inform a maximum: if biochemistry interjects you, I suggest you to refer to the following link that refers to joint pain and synovium:
https://www.cjoint.com/doc/18_08/HHDvuUoSvXb_-ScientificStudiesOnIsotretinoinCompleted.pdf#[{"num"%3A476%2C"gen"%3A0}%2C{"name"%3A"XYZ"}%2C56.7%2C490.4%2C0]

. I also suggest reading the following thesis after a year though (a lot and a long time …) rummage on the net,
it is in a report of the European Medicines Agency (EMA) of 2018 that cited an interesting study that seems serious.
So it is only now that I just came across this French scientific study of 2017 (invisible from the net by looking on this issue): it talk about vitamin A prevalence among Inuit (page 28):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwji3KHDnL3kAhVmAGMBHQCjArsQFjAAegQIARAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theses.fr%2F2017NANT1019%2Fabes&usg=AOvVaw2Zae7_tyJ1KhaGHFNpwvSm

"Several explorers in the Arctic or Antarctic have experienced hypervitaminosis A syndrome after ingesting polar bear liver, which contains significant amounts of vitamin A (or retinoic acid or retinol). than polar bear liver and unfit for consumption.It is reported https://claudegrandpeyvolcansetglaciers.com/2017/04/02/ "Consumption of polar bear meat can induce negative or even dangerous side effects. One of the most serious is hypervitaminosis A, an excess of the vitamin that can be contracted by eating the liver of polar bears, seals and walrus.Tackling the central nervous system, this condition can cause hair loss, desquamation, fetal malformations, liver problems, vomiting, blurred vision and even death.Aboriginal peoples have been aware of this danger for a long time. for a long time, just like the explorers, even if some did not feel sick after eating the liver of a polar animal. "

and this thesis also partially invalidates the argument of detractors that “depression” is induced by acne and not by isotretinoin, through epidemiological studies on French pharmacovigilance data. systematic epidemiological studies on this issue and this misinformation, it is easy to understand and didactic about the question of the link of accountability between isotretinine and depression.

It is there:

  • a systematic review of the literature that concludes

“In total, based on data from the medical literature, the link between isotretinoin and psychiatric disorders is suspected but not proven.The published studies are numerous, of varied methodologies with discordant conclusions.” (page 29)

  • a review of the warnings of the health authorities, patients’ associations and pharmacovigilance organizations which concludes

"In conclusion, the health authorities apply the precautionary principle, framing the prescription / delivery of isotretinoin, but on several occasions they stress that there is no data to link isotretinoin with psychiatric disorders. carrying out studies to evaluate this risk or the populations most at risk. " (page 38)

"The medical literature is rich on the subject, with many references found on PubMed.However, in the end, few quality articles can better understand this link.We found during our research very many opinions of experts, commentaries, non-systematic reviews giving varied opinions on the subject Despite the bibliographic wealth, few studies are of good methodological quality. " (page 39)

  • several pharmaco-epidemiological studies based on the Health Insurance databases, which aim to eliminate the bias of indication and the bias of notoriety.

“Indication bias is a confounding bias, which refers to the fact that a drug is no longer administered in a patient with a high risk of complications.” (page 58)

   * Study from the National Pharmacovigilance Database (1984 to 2014)

"These results highlight that serious psychiatric events occurring during treatment with isotretinoin for acne are more likely to be related to isotretinoin itself than to the underlying disease (acne). ). " (page 71)

"Since systemic antibiotics are prescribed in the first line in severe forms of acne, we assume that if psychiatric disorders are induced by the underlying pathology (acne), then we should have found significant proportions of psychiatric disorders under systemic drugs of acne other than isotretinoin.

However, cases of psychiatric disorders deemed severe by psychiatric experts are all related to isotretinoin and none to other systemic treatments for acne.

However, the indication bias probably can not be completely neutralized. Thus, patients who have had isotretinoin and have developed psychiatric disorders, may be of benefit to patients with significant repercussions of their acne or underlying psychological fragility, inducing a strong impact of acne on their quality of life. "(page 75)

   * Studies carried out from the EGB of the bases of the Health Insurance

.base EGB coupled with PMSI data

“The strength of our study, is that it considers patients with moderate acne on the one hand, and patients with severe acne on the other hand, in comparison to a control population.” Our results underline that except for the events psychiatric serious, there is a gradient of occurrence of psychiatric event depending on the severity of acne.
This point is crucial because it underlines the indication bias. Patients with acne therefore have a “basal” risk of developing a psychiatric disorder. However, our work does not make it possible to determine whether the difference in occurrence of psychiatric disorders in the “severe acne” cohort compared to the “moderate acne” cohort may be due to isotretinoin or the severity of acne. " (page 84)

“We hypothesize that acne affects the well-being of patients, but that this pathology does not lead to the overuse of severe psychiatric events” (page 85)

 Case cross over study from the EGB database coupled with the PMSI data (in order to overcome the indication bias)

“The analyzes are underway for this study.” (page 87)

since 2017, we are in 2019 …

“In view of the synthesis of data from the literature, our systematic review of the literature, and the analysis of BNPV data, a link between isotretinoin and psychiatric disorders is very likely.” (page 93)

overall conclusion (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0151963817307433):

“Our original work highlights that psychiatric side effects are reported with several retinoids which is rather in favor of a class effect and goes against the role of the underlying pathology.”

translation: depression is induced by isotretinoin, and is not due to acne itself

“Our results support the hypothesis of a link between isotretinoin and psychiatric disorders, but the predictive factors and the exact prevalence of these psychiatric disorders remain to be determined.” (page 99)

-------> "Establishment in the dermatology department of the University Hospital Center of Nantes, a cohort of patients with acne, the COPACNE cohort.This is a cohort, monocentric, prospective at Descriptive and etiological purpose (risk / predictive / prognostic factors) "

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=auto&tl=fr&u=https%3A%2F%2Fclinicaltrials.gov%2Fct2%2Fshow%2FNCT03465150

“Estimated Primary Completion Date: February 28, 2033”

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=&term=NCT03465150&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=

“Status = Not yet recruiting”

the lab: http://www.crcina.org/recherche/departement-1-incit/equipe-02-clinical-and-translational-research-in-skin-cancer/

sorry for the length and lack of brevity, I’m a little tired, I wish you all the best.

@stephane1 my dosage was really too high for too long. My first symptom after treatment was folliculitis, then hairloss, then joint problems, then breathing issues, then eye problems, then skin issues, then stomach problems.
I do have certain calcification that are associated with isotretinoin use.
My biggest issues are pain and folliculitis. Are people complaining about folliculitis in France?

Thanks for your help.

@Calcified, i am not the representative of accutaners in France, and the testimonials are about the same in the world. I can tell you that in my case, the doses were normal (20 to 40 mg), the duration also (not more than 5 months), and I have all these problems plus a “depression”. The only thing I do not have is bone calcification, hyperostosis or exostosis. I know one person who has had this problem, and you are only 33 in the world to have reported this effect to pharmacovigilance, I strongly encourage you to do so. The recent zenatane notice mentions this effect: https://rxisk.org/product-monographs/index.php?setid=27b3cf26-f22e-5b70-1c24-009933b7c6ee. Also go to the summary page 4 of the link on biochemical studies in the previous post, I think there is a paragraph on bone growths (I’m not on my computer, I’ll watch tonight). Pages 130 (back pain, chest pain), 149 (gallstone formation),172 (osteoporosis) of that : https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwji3KHDnL3kAhVmAGMBHQCjArsQFjAAegQIARAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theses.fr%2F2017NANT1019%2Fabes&usg=AOvVaw2Zae7_tyJ1KhaGHFNpwvSm Seborrheic dermatitis and baldness are very frequently reported, as joint pain, I myself have had dermatitis, then hair loss, and less dermatitis since, even if it comes back sometimes. Some will gave osteoporosis, other will have bone formation, there is an irreversible and systemic imbalance, and a lack of research, the epidemiologic study that proves the link between depression and iso, is less apreciated with only one line about it on the EMA report, there is a lot of desinformation about accutane. Stay strong, Cheers

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@stephane1 Sorry I thought you were in France.

Interesting how side effects don’t vary much around the world.

Thanks for info.

You should test your vitamin D because most post accutane syndrome have vitamin D deficiency.

@stephane1 I did and my levels went from 20 to 80 after supplements but I calcified more.
I don’t know why but I peeled alot more than people doing reviews on youtube. But I don’t think my dose was over 100mg.