Nobody is denying that there are things that could have a positive effect on your symptoms temporarily. If you’re looking for a drug/supplement that can reliably help a notable proportion of people with their symptoms in anything other than the short term (/acutely), then you’re not going to find much. That’s just the reality of the situation, and it is not easy to come to terms with. It’s something even I haven’t fully accepted 4 years on.
I’m not sure I agree with you there. There is plenty of people who gain long term positive effects from different kind of treatment / supplements.
But I also see people who act out of despair, either trying everything there is to try. Or they try to change to much, to fast.
There’s no treatment that will work for everyone sadly, so you (or your doctor) has to assess your symptoms and theorize according to the data we currently have on different kind of treatments what could benefit just you. If that makes any sense.
I for once had great success with Creatine so far, and I’ve used it for some months now. It’s not the cure for PFS, but for me it offsets some of my symptoms.
I decided to use Creatine after assessing my blood work. Basically I had high LH, low SHBG and mid range T.
Taking all those parameters into account my conclusions was that my body wanted more androgens.
When we try to change our body’s homeostasis, it’s important to take it slow. If you rush into things, it’s likely to make you feel like shit. The body doesn’t want to adapt to new things because it takes energy, and the body is dead set on saving energy even if it’s not very productive.
Take someone who is bedbound, that person will lose muscle in almost an instant. This is BAD for your health, but the body doesn’t care. It just want to save energy.
Many animals doesn’t share this trait with us, they simply will not lose muscle even if they never move/excersie. But their problem is that they are not as adaptable when food is scarce etc.
I don’t think so. I have taken things that have offered me relief acutely (which has been helpful), but they are limited in what they can do.
This is the problem. The data that we have doesn’t give us enough information to come up with a treatment. We don’t much about this disease. My own experience with things that I have taken has been different based on what point in time I have taken it.
Let me chime in and say that Wellbutrin XL worked wonders for me as long as my T levels are good. When I came off Trt, it’s effects took a clear nose dive and were probably more negative than positive.
So if your T levels are GOOD (not just “in range”), it’s definitely worth a try for energy/motivation, and even libido. For me when I was at my worst/wit’s end, it was literally the difference between being physically disabled (from the fatigue) and very decently functional.
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What do you consider as “good TRT level”?
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By good T levels, I mean your Free T needs to be in the upper quartile of the reference range.
Something else to consider: I went to a professor in neuropsychiatry last week, and the first thing she said about bupropion is how we actually have no clue by what mechanism it works.
It’s also used to help cessate smoking and to treat ADHD. In both these situations it’s actually to suppress either the motivation to stop smoking or to reduce the amount of impulses in ADHD.
I think for many PFS sufferers we actually want more motivation and more impulses. The ones of us who’re actually suffering from anxiety might benefit more from bupropion.
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Well, stimulants such as amphetamines are the first-line treatment for ADHD so I’m not entirely sure about that. They work by boosting dopamine levels.
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Actually, Wellbutrin increases dopamine and norepinephrine action which generally leads to higher motivation and “impulses.” And that was definitely the effect it had on me…when my T levels were good, things were great. However, when Trt was discontinued and my T levels dropped off, all that remained was terrible anxiety which was the main reason I stopped it.
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Just to have your story properly recorded:
Did you first get on TRT (any effects on its own?) and later on Wellbutrin, which then improved your condition? And when you went off TRT (why?), you felt worse (anxiety), but improved once you went off Wellbutrin?
Just trying to get an idea on the time line here to distinguish between the effects of TRT and Wellbutrin, respectively.
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The exact mechanism is unclear.
Couldn’t it also be that you felt better because of higher testosteron levels? That’s my experience. I felt more energetic when my T was higher due to low dose hCG. When stopping low dose hCG my energy levels plummeted.
After which I started bupropion.
Now I’m on low dose hCG again and bupropion 300mg and it seems like I’m even feeling a little worse than when I was on hCG alone.
But it’s all so hard to measure…
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So yes, it’s important to provide an accurate timeline and all the variables at play in my experience:
Yes, I was already on TRT at that time. I had been experimenting with TRT on and off for years. Up to that point, it’s benefits were trivial at best. I was very resistant to the idea of going on an anti-depressant (pride, reputation, etc), but I finally gave WB a shot. It was a major game-changer…relieved fatigue, increased libido, motivated me to go back to school, etc.
Then our dog got sick, died, girlfriend decided she wanted to have a baby, she was diagnosed with fertility issues, made me quit TRT (all in that order). After quitting TRT for a while, I started experiencing a LOT of anxiety (abnormal stress responses, even for PFS). Then I stupidly tried adding Prozac to the mix (per dr rec) to try to calm the stress…that did work but gave me Anorgasmia and then ED, so I dropped it.
After cruising along with WB for a bit longer, I found out that it ain’t too good for male fertility either, so I decided it had to go as well. Yes, my anxiety then improved back to normal PFS levels.
Long story short, my benefits only came from the combination of good T levels + Wellbutrin…and it was a stark, unmistakable improvement from anything I had experienced during the prior 8 years or so of PFS.
Just in case anyone is curious, I did also run some more T + Proviron for 2 months last year, was what eventually enabled me to become more functional (without the Wellbutrin), but that is not something I’m recommending here.
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I can see that. I’ve tried hcg by itself before and it just doesn’t feel too good for me personally. But if Hcg increases your T enough (without E), that’s great.
I’ve spoken to many guys where WB didn’t do squat, but I think if you fit a certain symptom profile where debilitating fatigue, brain fog (regardless of T) is your top problem, WB is worth a SHOT.
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It’s worth noting how T (or androgens) has a synergistic relationship with dopamine (Wellbutrin).
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With all due respect, I don’t quite follow how this relates to this thread.
I actually first started taking wellbutrin well before I ever took finasteride and it works good for me. I’ve been off it for awhile and I noticed my thinking’s been more unhappy lately. I don’t know if it’s a depression thing or if my shitty life circumstances are bothering me more as time goes on. I do plan on going back on the med soon.
Fwiw, I think it’s a good medicine. Should definitely be prescribed for depression before SSRIs are in my opinion.
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just an opinion. stop finding silver bullets, even more when it comes to pharma shit. there’s absolutely nothing to do with dopamine and whatever isolated shit we suppose here. trust me, i fucking know what i am talking about, and modestly i’m the smartest motherfucker i know
i just can’t get how you guys insist on this kind of shit. all meds are poison and just a creation of an industry that ONLY care for your money and most of all, for our illness -then the money is born.
stop kidding yourself. act.
Perhaps you should get out more and meet people.
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oh boy, i do it daily. and it causes me infinite more improvements than a single pharma pill or any non-sense protocol.
also, it makes me less and less imbecile, so i can finally forget my thoughts when stupid ones like “donate to the research” comes to my head.
get real. perhaps you should meet the real world.
Well I hope you start to see some progress on that front as soon as possible.