bryce54's story

Member Stories
#1
  1. Where are you from (country)?
    usa
  2. How did you find this forum (Google search – if so, what search terms? Via link from a forum or website – if so, what page? Other?)
    google… long time ago
  3. What is your current age, height, weight?
    22, 135ish, 5’11"
  4. Do you excercise regularly? If so, what type of excercise?
    not currently
  5. What type of diet do you eat (vegetarian, meat eater, raw, fast-food/organic healthy)?
    regular, not sure… not that healthy tbh
  6. Why did you take Finasteride (hair loss, BPH, other)?
    hair loss
  7. For how long did you take Finasteride (weeks/months/years)?
    about 3 weeks, maybe less
  8. How old were you, and WHEN (date) did you start Finasteride?
    check my side bar, it was in 09 during summer
  9. How old were you when you quit, and WHEN (date) did you quit?
    less than 30 days after… still was 20
  10. How did you quit (cold turkey or taper off)?
    cold turkey
  11. What type of Finasteride did you use – Propecia, Proscar, Fincar or other generic?
    propecia
  12. What dose did you take (eg. 1 mg/day, 1 mg every other day etc.)?
    dont remember
  13. How long into your use of Finasteride did you notice the onset of side effects?
    a week or two
  14. What side effects did you experience while on the drug that have yet to resolve since discontinuation?
    pain in my testicles… stopped when i read side effects online about it. after having the sides for a day or two, i searched online, found out about sides and quit. sides happened after 2 or 3 weeks… didn’t notice long term sex drive till i was at work and was like wtf man what happened to my sex drive lol then did more research and found this site. probably a month or two after being on it… i had another account, but i forgot the details on it, didnt do anything about this problem then anyway.

Put an X beside all that apply:

Sexual
[x ] Loss of Libido / Sex Drive
[x ] Erectile Dysfunction
[ ] Complete Impotence
[x ] Loss of Morning Erections
[x ] Loss of Spontaneous Erections
[x ] Loss of Nocturnal Erections
[ x] Watery Ejaculate
[x ] Reduced Ejaculate
[ ] Inability to Ejaculate / Orgasm
[ ] Reduced Sperm Count / Motility

Mental
[x ] Emotional Blunting / Emotionally Flat
[ x] Difficulty Focusing / Concentrating
[x ] Confusion
[ ] Memory Loss / Forgetfullness
[ ] Stumbling over Words / Losing Train of Thought
[ ] Slurring of Speech
[ ] Lack of Motivation / Feeling Passive / Complacency
[x ] Extreme Anxiety / Panic Attacks
[ x] Depression / Melancholy

Physical
[ ] Penile Tissue Changes (narrowing, shrinkage, wrinkled)
[ ] Penis curvature / rotation on axis
[x ] Testicular Pain (not anymore)
[ ] Testicular Shrinkage / Loss of Fullness
[ ] Genital numbness / sensitivity decrease
[ ] Weight Gain
[ ] Gynecomastia (male breasts)
[ ] Muscle Wastage
[ ] Muscle Weakness
[ ] Joint Pain
[ ] Dry / Dark Circles under eyes

Misc
[ ] Prostate pain
[ ] Persistent Fatigue / Exhaustion
[ ] Stomach Pains / Digestion Problems
[ ] Constipation / “Poo Pellets”
[ ] Vision - Acuity Decrease / Blurriness
[ ] Increased hair loss
[ ] Frequent urination
[ ] Lowered body temperature

[ ] Other (please explain)

  1. What (if any) treatments have you undertaken to recover from your side effects since discontinuation of the drug?
    none, just vitamins
  2. If you have pre or post-Finasteride bloodtests, what hormonal changes have you encountered since discontinuing the drug (pls post your test results in the “Blood Tests” section and link to them in your post)?
    see below
  3. Anything not listed in the above questions you’d like to share about your experience with Finasteride?
    hate it
  4. Tell us your story, in your own words, about your Finasteride usage and side effects experienced while on/off the drug.
    I took propecia for less than 30 days back in 09 when I was 20. I’m currently 22 and still have sides of erectile dysfunction or low libido… i’m not sure which one. all i know is that i don’t have the same sex drive as i used to, same as everyone else. i havn’t done any treatment to myself, just vitamins, which i’m currently not taking because i want to see my lab results without them. i basically have the refactory period of like a 50 year old dude right now. i get brain fog occasionally, but i meditate a lot so i am not as effected by it. i also go out and try to socialize as much as possible which really brings my stress levels down.
Where do I start?
#2

So I had some posts in the lab tests section and now I decided to move it here so I can focus on treatment and things that I’m doing and this seems to be the forum where you post day to day instead of the lab tests area so I will stay here from now on. If you want to see my other labs, go http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4877

So from my last post in the lab section… these are my current labs:

just got new tests done, heres the ones that im not sure about or i feel are important:

ferritin 67.8 (24-336 ng/ml)

ft4 - .71 (.61-1.12 ng/dl)

prog 1.2 (.14-2.06 ng/ml)

t3 reverse - 262 (90-350) no measurements… lovely. but found this website to find the ratio: faqhelp.webs.com/rt3ratiot3meds.htm

ft3 - 3.8 (1.8-5.6 pg/ml)

Test free - 17.2 (9-30 ng/dl)

test total - 573 (250-950 ng/dl)

pregnenlone - 199 (33-248 ng/dl)

estrogen level, estrone - 31 (10-60 pg)

estradiol - 42 (10-40 pg)

ok so basically what i did to find my reverse t3 levels was mutiply my free t3 by 1000, and divide by rt3

3800/262 = 14

So I know I have too much reverse t3 in my body, its under 19 or 20.

if you want to know about reverse t3, read this
medical-library.net/reverse_t3_dominance_syndrome.html
custommedicine.com.au/health-articles/reverse-t3-dominance/

next, my testosterone is the same as a guy in his like 40’s or 50’s via this chart: mens-hormonal-health.com/normal-testosterone-levels-in-men.html

finally, i have REALLY HIGH estrogen… look at the estradiol, off the range. im not really sure what to do about this one… i’m going to research the thyroid websites. i know the author of STTM said she had this and had to do something about it. that’s the thing i’m worried about right now… on wikipedia it says sperm kill themselves with high levels of estradiol and i’m off the charts, yikes. other people seem to have it on this forum too… will post updates when i find out more

anyway, i’m goign to get cortisol checked in the next week or two via saliva and all i can do is wait until i graduate school in may or find an antiaging doctor around me that isn’t too expensive that has experience with dosing T3 to treat high RT3 and possibly cortisol supplementation based on my saliva test when i take it.

anyways… i will get better soon, HORRRA. if anyoen knows about the estrogen stuff… please let me know. thanks.

also, i have the facebook support chat group that no one has joined yet. me and toadstool chat all the time and its great to have other people to talk FAST on facebook… can really help out. i dont think i wouldve known as much stuff as i do now about all this if it wasnt for toadstool on facebook and our chats we have all the time which motivated me to research. PM me if you want to join and ill send you my facebook profile link or send me your link. plz no names, its hard to find. and the group is SECRET so none of your friends can know you are in it.

1 Like
#3

bryce54,

You’ve got another red flag indicating thyroid issues on the that test of yours. Your Ferritin (Iron Storage) is low. 80 is considered bare minimum. I read on several sites that 90-110 is ideal for thyroid hormones to work properly.

when you get your next blood test. In addition to the typical Thyroid stuff, add Vit C, Vit E, Zinc, Vit D, Selenium, Vit B12/6. I’ll bet your low in many of them. Most of these are commonly low with people who have thyroid problems. Vit D & Ferritin play an important role in regards to getting thyroid hormones to the cells.

#4

In my experience and in other people’s experience, increasing cortisol will lower E2. According to the cortisol management theory*, propecia sent your cortisol to very low levels. Cortisol is the body’s favorite downregulator of T/DHT metabolism (it makes it hard for T/DHT to trigger androgenic action). Once your cortisol was removed, your body had to crank up E2 to downregulate T. Now, you want to downregulate it with cortisol and not with E2, because that’s exactly what happens in young males: they have high cortisol and low E2 and low SHBG.

So, I would suggest to talk to your doctor and try to boost your cortisol, preferably with pregnenolone supplementation. When that’s done, you should consider boosting your T3. That would allow even more cortisol to be produced and used to downregulate T.

*it is only a theory, which was proposed on musclechatroom.com, and which is backed up by a few recoveries of this forum (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4784)

#5

jesus, you are right. wow. i was too busy looking at reverse t3 and thinking about cortisol that i didn’t even really consider looking at that. i was “in range” and i figured it was one of those tests like vit d where everyone is low in it anyway. but yeah i can see how those are important. i will DEF be working on those.

just right now i need to wait it out until i can find an anti aging doctor to go to. will test those when i get to that doctor and let them know.

ah okay cool. so that will kill 2 birds with one stone if i do have a low cortisol. what makes you think pregnenlone would be the best treatment? over here… musclechatroom.com/forum/content.php?118-cortisol-boost-101 he has like 5 or 6 different treatments for cortisol. but its like. .which one to choose lol?

STTM suggests using HC, but according to chilln, he says that is only used in extreme cases. i think chilln knows what hes talking about, however, JN also took HC and saw improvement. I can see how pregnenlone would be the safer option considering the risks you take with HC overdosing (which I don’t think I will do), but according to my blood work… my pregnelone doesn’t look that bad, don’t you think?

and yeah i’m going to have to use T3 anyway to fight the RT3.

the way i saw it when i goto the doctor is talk about working on cortisol first (depending on cortisol test that i will be doing in next week or two), then work on RT3. now im realizing i need to work on the ferritin as well, possibly cortisol, and RT3.

damn this pill did some damage…

#6

So I just got back from the first visit with my anti aging doctor. I showed him my labs and he said a few interesting things. Here’s some points he made. And this guy knows his stuff !

So he noticed that my thyroid anti bodies were high. I don’t think I added them in my lab results above because I thought since they were “in range” they were fine. But my TPO Antibodies is at 54, and the range is below 60. He said that I was very close to being diagnosed with the Hashimoto’s disease, which is explained to me isn’t so much a “disease”, but it means that I have anti bodies attacking my thyroid.

He also noted that I had very interestingly had low cholesterol before I took propecia. He said that he has seen other clients in the past and they had low cholesterol and had the same libido/sex drive issues with other medications or other random medical things. He said that could potentially have a part in why this is happening.

I told him about how I don’t sweat as much and the stuff with ear wax and I forget what he said about ear wax, but he said sweat initially starts out as cholesterol as well, he continued to say how these points are clues to what is going on.

I printed out JN’s thread (just JN’s posts) and showed it to him and told him how JN had been successful recovering by treating his thyroid and he agreed that JN knew his stuff as he read through it.

He said that we need to start figuring this out right away and we will begin experimenting with what JN did in order to get me better! He has started me out with super miraforte to combat my high estrogen levels. He said that my high level of 49 for estrogen is definitely not normal for someone my age and this supplement will bring it down to the 30’s or lower within a month or so. I asked him about armidex and he said that armidex is very intense and it’s actually prescribed for a different cause. He said we will do the supplement and see how it goes. The supplement also has testosterone booster and other helpful things regarding libido.

He has also started me on very low, 5 mcg (I think the measurement, not sure) of T3. He said he just wants to me start on it low to see what happens, but in the mean time I will get a cortisol serum tomorrow morning to see how cortisol is very early in the morning. He says if my cortisol level is below 12, he will start to get me on hydro cortisone. I will also be getting other labs such as DHT and one other thing I forget what it was.

he agrees with my rt3 level being and is willing to treat that as well. he said that i’m the in the pre stages of having full blown hypo thyroidism.

other things we talked about was my low iron and how i should get more cholesterol in my diet. also about how i noticed improvement with vitamin d and he said that vitamin d is needed for testosterone to work or something along those lines (he thought it was very interesting the vitamin d comment)

Our plan is to treat each thing that is going on and he is definitely on board to treat all the thyroid issues. He will call me when he gets the results of the lab. I will keep you guys updated on what’s next.

right now i’m doing this:

2 super miraforte vitamin supplements per day (vitamin supplement to lower estrogen)
1 low dose T3 every morning

we will change this up soon when he gets my new labs.

#7

Well, this is unique! I don’t know exactly how many people over here have had high antibodies but to my understanding not too many? If you read STTM’s list of symptons, did you have any of the symptons prior to finasteride? Asking this since i think it’s unheard of that fin causes high antibodies (well, anything is possible with this condition as it’s unique to individual) so it’s important to realize whether it’s prior or post finasteride.
I don’t know how thyroid antibodies work or whether some underlying condition can cause it.

Can’t say much about this! I’ve read some stuff about cholesterol and it seems to be an issue full of contradictions. I don’t think you should bother with this, there’s not much you can do about it. Uh, i mean maybe you’ll have better success than ADD. FATTY. MEAT. with the healthy diets several of members here have tried.

uh i don’t know anything about this and how this works but if it’s anything similiar to testosterone boosters then be wary that if you use it for any prolonged time they lose their effect. i don’t know if the estrogen suppression effect wanes off but just be aware of this.

Basically: if you study JN’s story page 17 and much onward, you need to flush out RT3 from your body. Starting low is important but you NEED to increase it systematically to a point when you get hyperthyroidism symptons. There’s really clear rules about this! I think STTM has them all in there. If you don’t increase T3 then you’ll never get to a point when your T3 completely replaces the physiological production of T4 in your body.

Likewise, taking cortisol from morning serum sample is useless if you don’t take 24h saliva test within that same day IMO. Regardless, the 24h saliva test is more important and will give you the actual picture of your AF and for how far it has progressed.

You need to study this for real. A whole lot of this is exlained and speculated in JN’s topic and in this topic: http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4784&start=0 The Cortisol Management - topic. Also, if you are serious with your thyroid-adrenal recovery then start taking temperatures of your body, i’ve given the link to instructions in that topic.

#8

thanks for posting here.you know, i’m not sure about the thyroid anti bodies thing either. toadstool mentioned to me that he also had high anti bodies so it might not just be me. i was never tested for it before fin because i was only, actually 19, at the time. my family does have a strong history of thyroid problems on my mother’s side though, so its possible. however, i did have very good libido and sex drive before. either way, T3 will suppress it and lower it.

i was thinking the same thing regarding the super miraforte. i have had positive effects from it, however, i’m not claiming that it will be long term because i have had the same issues with other supplements where its effects weaned off over time. i’m only taking it to lower estrogen… so we will see in some time where that is.

and yeah i agree with you on understanding all of this. i know a lot of this stuff very well and my doc does this for a living dosing this stuff and prescribing it so i am in good hands. :slight_smile:

#9

How’s the T3 going?

#10

Bryce54 said:

More autoimmune issues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroiditis

#11

it’s going good. i still havnt heard back from my doctor, i need to call him after next week because i have finals.

i basically feel a lot more “normal” on t3. i have more energy, i dont feel dazy and out of it. although, yesterday i noticed i was extremely tired. i may have to up the dose. but i didnt feel spacey.

libido is still not good. but i do feel much more regular and normal which is great news. i used to be like dead tired exhausted unable to function after work, now i don’t feel too out of it and still feel like i have energy after work.

i had an initial boost of sex drive after starting on the miraforte, but i suspected it was just one those sex drive spikes you get from supplements, and i was right because it went away since then. but it felt DAMN good, so i’m hoping the supplement is killing the estrogen.

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#12

stopping t3 immediately. not sure if its related or not, but i have noticed i have testicle shrinkage or i am paranoid i don’t know, but something doesn’t seem right, i’m not sure exactly. i will do more research but its fianls week for me now so i don’t have time this week. i dont see how it can be t3, but from randomly reading posts and talking to my friend, i checked and i noticed i have some shrinkage. i didn’t think it was an issue before, which makes me partly believe it was the t3??? i have noticed lack of sensation in my penis recently, but wasn’t sure if attributed to the t3 or not or it was one of my low drive cycles or “recharging” periods.

but to reiterate, i did feel very good on t3 and my brain fog was pretty much cleared up. i guess im going to go back to brain fog land now…

specifically what i was on was lilothyronine… i really cant see how it was t3 so im thinking i had it previously and just am paranoid or something now. ugh. going to look into this prostatis thing now…

will update when i hear back from my doctor…

1 Like
#13

So I was thinking how this could have happened and I have a theory, if indeed my testicles did shrink. I’m not 100% sure if it was because of the T3 use, but I did notice tingling in my penis the last day or two and an odd disconnect that was more intense than before T3. I thought nothing was wrong because I was feeling very energetic.

So if my testicles did shrink, and please anyone respond to this if I am wrong, so the way I picture it in my head is that I’m assuming I have too much cortisol since everyone here has that problem. I’m still waiting on the test. But let’s assume I do… so the T3 basically gives you that boost to transport testosterone to your body. However, because I had too much estrogen, the increase in T3 did the opposite effect by distributing estrogen all through my body. The initial thing was that I had too much estrogen.

I just went to the store and grabbed a bunch of eggs and eating a ton of eggs before I goto sleep to try to get a testosterone boost, and I will lay off the T3 until I do more research on this so I think I will go back into zombie mode again since I’ll be off the T3.

I’m thinking if I use armidex to lower estrogen dramatically… then make sure my levels are right, then go on T3 treatment to attack the RT3 problem, that may be the solution.

But must research this protatis thread as well… must study for finals ugh.

**If this is true, that means that the underlying cause of too much estrogen/too little testosterone is not RT3 related… although the RT3 is a potential problem, its not the CAUSE. although im assuming the estrogen can be treated with armidex as that is what JN did.

the supermiraforte i’m taking has a warning on the side that says this:
elevations in free testosterone can unmask an occult (hidden) prostate cancer. anyone with this concern should have a baseline PSA prior to using this product and a follow up PSA test 60 days later.

with all the prostate talk… i need to do more research on what this means. i’m stoppign the supermiraforte also.

#14

okay so i just got back from my doctor. when i noticed the testicle atrophy, it was from a swollen epididymis. now im not sure if i had testicle atrophy or not, but i just start panicking and thought it was in the process of happening. i got new labs…

DHT - 455 pg/mL (112-955)

cortisol morning serum - 20.2 (4.3-22.4)

DHEA sulfate - 258 (35-560 ug/dL)

so doctor says cortisol is normal. he says DHT would currently not cause any hair loss. interesting hmmm? no more hairloss ever since i stopped propecia.

i started to talk to him about the prostatitis and he brought up the massages as a way to treat it. he says it could be a possibilty to have prostatitis, and then he said if it wasnt prostatitis we have a serious mystery diagnosis going on here… he said it would be difficult to find a massage place, but he said they have to be around somewhere and he has treatment options for the prostate he could over with me. he told me the transrectal ultrasound is the best way to detect it because a traditional prostate test wouldn’t be able to let you know 100% and he said so many more people would catch prostate cancer if they used it.

in regard to the swollen epididymis, i believe it was my use of the super miraforte that caused it. what it did, i have no idea. although my doc said that super miraforte has stuff in it which can stimulate the prostate, which may have done something? i don’t know… i’m not going to use it anymore. i’m going to be very careful about what i use from now on.

so i found a place that does the transrectal ultrasound and i’m going to fax over my doctors recommendation for it now. will update if anything new comes up.

currently i am doing two detox drinks…

this one 3x a day:
RECIPE: DETOX DRINK
1 cup of water
1 Tsp Psyllium Husk powder
1 Tsp Bentonite Clay
Psyllium and Bentonite

edit not doing the liver cleanse drink anymore, it contains ginger, and ginger i have learned helps lower DHT and lowers prostate size. not trying to do what propecia did.

i dont know if these drinks are doing anything or not, but i don’t care they have healthy stuff in it anyway.

#15

That’s about what my doctor told me. Same situation.

That happened to me too. Hence my use of “natural anti-inflammatories”. I’ve taken alot of antibiotics and they do help, but I cant take them forever and am looking for a more lasting solution. I’m waiting for my next appt to get a transrectal ultrasound. Havent had one yet and its the natural next step.

Re your detox, I like it. I’m doing something similar (see my member story) and am working on my general health.

I’ll be following your thread with interest.

#16

Although I am late to reply but my cholestrol was above normal range before SP use. I used liptore tabs to lower my cholestrole in 2005 for only 10 days but got sides from it and stopped it. I am sure my cholestrol is still high.

#17

kinda rude dont ya think? but…maybe theres a reason for that stemming from some sort of gut issue…

#18

I used to think skinny = low cholesterol too, I was wrong.
From American Heart Assoc:

Also, steroid hormones are produced from cholesterol. If cholesterol is too low, then the body will have trouble producing proper levels of essential hormones. Maybe this is what your doctor is thinking.
There are many guys suffering low T from being on cholesterol-lowering medications: http://www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/news/20100416/statins_may_lower_testosterone_libido

#19

Hi everyone. I found this website 2 years ago when I took Propecia. I was about umm 19 or 20, I think 20. I’m 22 now. I Started getting pains in my testicle area, I was only on propecia for a month. Realized it was probably because of this drug and searched online. Noticed my sex drive had been gone. Ever since then I have had a problem.

My sex drive has been on and off. I can’t masturbate anymore because if I do than I lose my sex drive completely. I have been taking vitamins, and my sex drive comes back after a few days. But in the past week, I’ve had a serious loss of sex drive. I haven’t been taking my vitamins completely which may have been the issue, I will not miss them again. But I am just worried and it’s got me thinking that I just want to fix this stupid problem.

The vitamins I take are Mens Formula, Biotin, Zinc, Multivitamin, B100, B12, Fish Oil, and Vision Formula. These have helped me regain my sex drive in the past, but not as to what I want. Sometimes I get really horny, but then I lose it. It’s like cycles. And it’s really starting to mess with my head now. I can’t stand it anymore.

I have blood tests done from before I got propecia in front of me. I don’t see testosterone on here, unless its labeled something different… it has random thingson here like WBC, RBC, MCV, MCH. I don’t know what anything means or if it’s relevant, but it’s something. I’m planning on calling my school doctor tomorrow and asking to get blood tests done, but I don’t know if they really can help. I went to my doctor before there and he kind of thought that it wasn’t possible when I told him about it, and he told me to see a different doctor because he was leaving the firm.

I remember a thread I saw to ask for specific blood tests to get, but I can’t find it. Can anyone help point me in the right direction? I am going to continue looking through this forum to see what I can find to help. I really just want to feel normal again, I can’t take these swings. I tried to get a girlfriend before and I started getting depressed and had weird sex drive and I think it really messed with the relationship and I couldn’t handle it and I just dropped her. This is not good… I just want to be happily able to have sex drive, this is not fair.

thanks my fellow friends.