The problem is most people that don’t suffer from brain fog cannot comprehend it. Given you are suffering from it you are in a position to compare what you could do before that you cannot do now, plus you have a great resource here with others experiences to help you. I know that this is difficult because you have brain fog but I don’t understand why you’re asking for general awareness. Specifically, how can people understand brain fog (be generally aware) if they cannot comprehend it? Your cart is in front of the horse.
Understood., but it’s not our job for them to comprehend it. Social awareness is what I meant, rather than general awareness. It’s enough that we are able to describe it for ourselves to the best of our abilities. That’s what really counts.
I just feel, that we need an article, in a magazine or a television report exposing the brain fog illness. It would be done with intelligence, tact and thoughtfulness, or in other words, done right, so that we don’t come off as a bunch of weirdo’s claiming we are messed up in the head from propecia. Doing this properly, is what I’m striving for. When I volunteered myself to be interviewed, by the Hartford Courant, regarding the propecia lawsuit, I thought I did an okay job in describing the illness and my predicament. Getting the word out, and exposure is what I’m on about Martin. The rest should work itself out. To be honest with you, I’m kinda’ tired with feeling like I’m the only one beating the drum on trying to raise more awareness regarding the cognitive issues. I, and others on here, are frustrated after seeing the recent propecia related news report videos, scientific studies, and magazine article’s just focusing on the sexual sides. This is unfortunate, as many of us on here are predominantly effected, by the mental side’s, and struggle every day with them. I just want to raise more awareness, for the brain fog guys, and a ‘proposed’ news report or magazine article would be great.
the brain fog issue is 1000x more important than no erections
I don’t know if i have mentioned that before.
But brain fog is a problem that cannot be measured somehow with todays means. Ok maybe with some very sophisticated PET-SCANs or some fMRIs but still those cost a fortune and they will yield inconsisten results.
It is a functional disorder and maybe years are needed to change brain architecture so that this can be outlined in brain testing.
How are we going to prove something that cannot be measured, i don’t know.
Here we have values and tests that prove consistency amonst patients regarding uro-genital and sexual issues and it is still very difficult to convince.
And one more important thing is that any drug that affects metabolism may cause brain fog.
Very difficult to prove really
For people like me strong evidence can surely be shown
- graduated high school inside top 1% of state (Australia has standarised exams - every one is scaled against each other)
- 82 average at top 8 Australian law school and best in my state (this equates to top 1-2% of law school)
- now unable to think at all, would prob get 50 points lower on IQ test
Right.
This is not medical evidence that finasteride brain-fogged you but i understand what you are saying. Its rather very tough to convince anyone on this basis though.
Doctors and medical media need tests, and these tests are too sophisticated to measure out what brain fog is, how it is defined and what causes it.
And believe me theres too many reasons causing it.
Have you tried armour thyrod to see if increasing free T3 improves your fog?
Have you tried extra doses of multivitamins to push your metabolism a bit. Go to a store and buy this
solgar.com/SolgarProducts/Earth-Source-Multi-Nutrient-Tablets.htm
this is what CFS patients use, who suffer heavily from brain fog and surprisingly there’s reports that many see results, even if not on a consistent basis, yet pretty promising.
You could also try a bit of hydrocortisone like 5 mg everymorning to see if this gives you an energy boost and better thinking. Or HC+armour thyroid combined.
Neurosteroids and their measurement. These tests do exist in research settings.
pmr.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_03/pmr2009a0025.pdf
I have measured them in urine and plasma. They don’t really correlate to what is found in your CNS but one can try. Unfortunately, each brain area or even particular groups of CNS neurons are bathed by different types,quantities and intensities of neurotransmitters. If it was so easy then there would not be so many different types of antidepressants or stimulants or even narcotics.
PET-SCANS are the way to do it, but still there is a time frame before brain fog settles and brain architect changes that can be illuminated through those tests. Plus those tests are very complex, they usually check for blood flow in and around suspicious malignant areas, you need a very open minded doc with a lot of patience to sit down and trace locus by locus what may be going on with ones blood flow and have comparative scans before use of finasteride to see if there are difference in density of white/grey matter. We are talking about chasing ghosts.
Try the Solgar multivitamin complex or armour thyroid first before going for tests of 3-4000 USD.
Where did you get the test and what was measured?
I think you’re getting confused with “neurotransmitters” (dopamine, serotonin etc) and “neurosteroids” (allopregnanolone, THDOC etc).
The former (neurotransmitters) can be tested in normal labs. The latter (neurosteroids) require research facilities/testing equipment, possibly spinal taps and MRIs to evaluate brain function in real-time.
The same thing applies to neurotransmitters.
Dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, can be measured in blood and urine as they act as regular hormones, but blood and urine concentrations don’t properly reflect their levels in the nervous system where they act as neurotransmitters.
A pretty decent psych explained this to me after I asked if she could send me for a dopamine blood test.
Three studies concerning the accuracy of neurotransmitter testing on this site: http://www.neurosciencemyths.com/Serotonin_dopamine_norepinephrine.htm
Discussion about fraudulant medical testing: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/bogus-diagnostic-tests/
I tested plasma norepinephrine/serotonin/epinephrine at a university hospital, the only one in Greece with this type of centrifuge to measure neurotransmitters.
Testing was done during 4 states calm sitting, lying down, after running on threadmill and after resistance exercise.
Everything was normal in plasma, but i felt like shit brainwise couldnt sleep for more than 2-3 hours daily and my memory was funny, i couldn’t remember the color of my car, where i lived, got disoriented in public etc etc.
The testing was a waste of time and money offcourse, thats why psychiatrists don’t bother with testing neurotransmitters. As i said each minute area in your brain gets bathed by different quantities and even different neurotransmitters so quantifying is useless.
The problem with MRIs which i ve done in all ways, a 4-5 times regular MRI, 2twice fMRI, 2twice MRA, once MRM (myelography) is that it don’t show jack all about anything.
At one point for like 6-8 months i couldn’t lift my head of the pillow due to drop in intracranial pressure, and whilst everysingle doctor i saw told me that there is a problem with my IP no test showed that.
You need PET-scans or MRS
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16148633
but still you won’t be knowing what you re looking at since there are sooooo many transmitters of all sorts playing a role in there.
The problem with brain fog is that the minute to minute energy supplementation which in general is dictated by the CRF-Cortisol pathway is donwregulated. Once this pulsatile rhythm is not working as it should then you get issues. After that you can look into thyroid issues but if the CRF -stat is down very few things will help you because it is undetermined still which neurotransmitters and in which brain areas play the most important role in keeping this intact, is it in the hippocampus, the amygdala or further upstairs??
Thats why it is so difficult to correct syndromes like CFS, stress disorders, bulimia, anorexia etc etc. And to add to all that after a while due to the altered CRF-stat you get altered responsed from your adrenals and your hypophysis too so you are in a total labyrinth
By the way, urine neurotransmitter tests are completely inconsistent.
Better luck with plasma you will have mass deviation but at least it shows peripheral release. In urine it is total crap, a slight constipation distorts results all the way.
Plus they search for metanephrine metabolites in urine instead of directly assesing levels of NA,Ser which makes it more difficult to understand
Dont worry Mew i don’t get confused over those issues. I read neuroanatomy and pathobiochem to fall asleep most nights.
I guess this thread has taken a new life, and now become more of the usual ‘armchair doctor’ discussion hour.
sheesh…i give up with you guys…you guys are too much…lol ever read the title associated with this thread? hilarious! lol 
“This is not medical evidence that finasteride brain-fogged you but i understand what you are saying. Its rather very tough to convince anyone on this basis though.
Doctors and medical media need tests, and these tests are too sophisticated to measure out what brain fog is, how it is defined and what causes it.”
salonk, in all due respect, WHY worry about proving this to anyone? I’ve met former drug addict’s, who were placed in nuthouses with people who dropped acid and never came back to life. One guy thought he was a lemon, and assumed people were out to puncture him with a straw! It doesn’t matter if you(the victim) can prove or disapprove, that this drug is capable of changing brain chemistry…it’s not our jobs dude!!! Let the experts seek this out…why put yourself through this? I’ve been on this forum for over three years, and from what I’ve seen thus far, is that we(the victims) have done enough of our own research to start our own medical journal! It’s obvious to any doctor worth his salt, that this is not a far fetched argument, that propecia changed some folk’s brain chemistry on here in a nasty way…why? let them figure that out. This is NOT the fist time in human history, that a drug(street or legal) screwed people up in the head!
Our job’s now, should be to organize and get the word out in any way possible, as regular joe’s, and not amateur scientists…so far, the majority of us on this forum are 'shadow entities of lurkers(supposedly ill) behind computer screens to any rational human being…
If we were ever to organize ourselves in real numbers or on a signed petition with thousand’s of names, then THEY(the medical researchers, scientists, medical community and general public) would have to take notice. So far, we have no real strong presence…we are still in the shadows trying to figure this out amongst ourselves here!
Yes. I suggest gathering, as many signature’s from this forum as possible, and sending out a well written petition to as many outlet’s and significant organizations (media, political, scientific etc.) as possible!
You can’t ignore strength in numbers on paper! How could you disapprove thousand’s of men claiming, that a drug altered their brain chemistry and are asking for help?!
Robertino i am with you, and i think everyone else here would agree to make this PFS issue more public i just have to stress how hard it is for a complex symptom like this to get evaluated. Not that it is impossible, but you would have to visit the appropriate medical stuff repeatitevly and discuss with them about it, convince them you have it and about its seriousness and then maybe a certain number of patients could follow and report the same.
How many are there with brain fog though from finasteride?? more than 5%??
Here there is high difficulty in reporting the basics, hormonal and possibly prostatic issues, doctors don’t or are unwilling to understand cause there is no clear testing to back it up.
Thats why we must concentrate on critical tests (hormonal/3-adiol-g/ultrasoundsounds) to prove what he have up to now and which follows a pattern in most.
But if someone makes the start maybe and can convince about brain fog we can follow.
Yes, but like I said, you can’t ignore strength in numbers on paper!
How could you disapprove thousand’s (or more) men claiming, that a drug altered their brain chemistry and are asking for help?! This is not the first time in history that a drug (legal/illegal) has done this to a human!!!
Once you get enough politician’s, and people on board, then the medical people will be FORCED to study us in more detail…
right now, we are merely ghosts behind a computer screen, who are trying to figure this out on our own…running our own tests to prove a point to get attention & research done to help us? It won’t happen until this is exposed more!!!
We need to push this out more to the public, so that it’s OUT THERE.
Your missing the point. There is not enough of us raising awareness, and just playing armchair doctor trying to feel better and get this puzzle solved. I disagree, there are doctors “out there” who do believe us and want to help us somehow.
Hopefully, there will be more down the road…There will be if we can raise more awareness and become more of a presence instead of an oddball shadow group of ill men. We need more exposure and people willing to listen us. This equals more doctors and research and getting more people interested and involved in helping us. Labor Unions are a good model to follow, but they are much better organized to deal with the ‘rich scumbag pill pushers’ looking to keep profiting and continuing to make people sick. I used to be a union organizer and activist, and trust me, this organizing stuff works! It’s like having your own lobby group acting on your behalf…the lawyers we have now can help, but would agree, they need us to make a statement and become more involved in getting the word out. This helps us also feel more connected with the outside and involved in making a difference. We cannot solve this on our own. We need to help and more awareness! Medical proof, is not necessarily needed(we have enough for now) in regards to a mass complaint, that many share about a product, that made them ill. We have doctors & endocrinologist’s, who have already stated on record(and t.v.), that this drug is unsafe and make’s some men very ill!