Brain feminization requires active repression of masculinization via DNA methylation

General Discussion
#27

Thank you, and I agree with a lot of what you’ve written. I’m no longer a “Type A” personality, and spend so much more time listening and caring even more than I had. Since this condition doesn’t seem to affect our cognitive abilities, listening helps us make better decisions, and I think more and respond better. Not all Betas are weak, and many appear “smarter”, but yes, it’s a huge shift. It’s also interesting to see people who somewhat feared my old Type A personally react to the “new” me. It was a strange feeling to see everyone at my old job, where I was often someone to be respected and sometimes feared. At that moment, I realized how much I changed over time, but especially due to this condition.

This condition has also made me so much more introspective, and I hope mature. I often buried myself in work, and usually don’t give myself a free minute to start thinking and worrying about this condition. Keeping busy all day also tires me out that I sleep better, which is important.

I try to keep doing the “right” things and keep positive, which doesn’t always work, and I can get really depressed, but I know that I will come out of it, because I have over and over in the last 15 years. To a degree, I think this condition’s effects are cyclical and maybe based on some circadian rhythm, kind of like a woman’s period.

I don’t know how many people here would admit to a change in sexual preference, but the forum has quite a few who expressed the same. I will say those feelings are relatively short lived and seems to go away. I do miss the intimacy with women, maybe more than the sex, and when the opportunity arises, I spend so much more time in foreplay with them, which they love seemingly more than the actual act. If you develop other skills, they can still be well pleased and it will keep your and their interest. It may not be the most masculine thing to say, but I make it all about them, because human touch is very very missed and I find it more painful to live without that than sex.

The absence of the sexual tension is missed, yes. But what it’s done is make me the mature, “safe guy”, and I now enjoy so much more of the platonic company of women, especially because this can be a very lonely condition.

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#28

hey, one more question. Short one. What caused the appendix to burst? Doctors tell you?

#29

HI Scotsman, do you know why Belikewater has been banned? It’s mentioned because of insulting staff, but I want to contact him. Is there a way?

#30

I have gotten no specific reason from the doctors why the appendix burst. It happened about a dozen years after I got PFS, so I don’t think it’s directly related, but maybe the supplements of other things I did affected it.

After the surgery, I seemed to recover quickly, in about half the time the surgeon expected. I suspect the heavy dose of antibiotics made me feel better, but I don’t know. I also stopped taking pain killers quickly, because with this condition, pain, like everything else, seems dulled.

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#31

Hi there @weaksides

I don’t know the details for Belikewater’s suspension beyond what’s publicly posted alongside his profile as I’m not a mod, although what it says will pretty much explain why. I don’t know how you can contact him in the interim or how long the suspension is for, sorry.

The reason I was interested in your member story was when you posted the following. I wanted to know the specifics of what you feel has changed with regards to your appearance.

#32

Have posted some more on other threads, story will be online soon though!

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#34

Hi man, you’ve responded a while ago. I really think I got this gene methylated… how about yourself? Would you think anything to change that would be possible?

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#35

I do not have this problem

As for changing it, don’t do anything right now.

Hang on to your baseline level of health and contribute to our community projects

Once we get enough information on this awful disease we can then start treatments that actually work

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#36

Yes, it’s exciting to think about it. We will be the craziest group of guys in the world. We need to have our own laboratory under the leadership of the administrator, actively donate money, do solid research one by one, and then beat this bitch instead of tickling it

4 Likes
#37

Hey man, sorry that it took some time to respond.

You’re right, there’s isn’t necessarily anything wrong with being more beta, as in more analytical and technical in an approach. But it’s still such a strange and life altering phenomenon to have your personality changed in such a way. While listening better and taking the time to respond isn’t really a bad thing, there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s power in silence at the right time as well. (That’s what brings tension, and attention most of the time.)

It’s indeed best to focus on the positive. Man, your words are definitely encouraging, it’s awesome to see how much growth is possible. Also encouraging to see your still date, and meet girls. Although the experience of it all might have changed, some more positive aspects have grown that weren’t so prevalent before.

I definitely take your case as an example.

Maybe we could regain some ground, but I do think it’s possible Finasteride changed something in our brains. Also why I think people like @awor and @anhedonicape ventured into specific compounds in hopes to change their genes/dna back to normal with demethylation. While that might or might not be reversible, the way we deal with that is on us, and it’s probable a big part of the recovery.

What I do believe, though, is that there are more silent sufferers of PFS then are willing to admit they do. They won’t speak about it because it’s embarrassing, it’s generally also hard for people to admit to making a mistake. Some people go their life living with the implications of their actions, without ever admitting they were wrong in their decision. It’s pretty visible to me that people who took finasteride, are a bit, different. Even those that to my knowledge don’t report any side effects. So that other people are able to live with this “normally” is somewhat encouraging.

You have tried certain steroids as well right, Proviron if I’m not wrong, which didn’t work in the end. I can remember talking with you on another thread. Have you maybe encountered certain drugs and or supplements that stimulated recovery for you?

Have a good weekend man.

2 Likes
#38

EDIT: Sorry for the tangent.

——//———————————-

Hey man, what were the signs leading up to the appendix burst, I as of today had I feeling I never had before, as if food was entering the cecum/appendix, in the lower right section of the colon “the ascending colon”. I never felt entering that part of my intestines.

It’s at the point where my right hip is located.

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Could this be a telltale sign?

EDIT: Turned out to be nothing for people curious

#39

The area seems to be the same. It was accompanied by increasing pain that was excruciating, and was worse when pressure was applied to it. It was also accompanied by a fever. Not knowing what it was, II waited hours, thinking it would pass. Eventually, I took a tums and threw up several times and couldn’t hold anything down, including water.

I took an Uber to the hospital and I painfully felt ever single bump in the road. I stopped at the nearest hospital (which wasn’t fully covered by my insurance-a $17,000 mistake) and an mri or catscan confirmed it, along with a blood and urine test. I was brought right into surgery.

I hope you don’t have it, and that it quickly passes, but if you do, don’t wait too long, like I did, or it can be more serious.

Here’s some more signs.

I wish you the best and please let me know what it turns out to be.

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#40

Oh man. What a difficult experience that must have been.

Scary as well. I can understand once your dealing with something like it, being covered by insurance in a certain hospital isn’t the first thing you’ll think of, especially if your insured with most hospitals already.

Good to hear your better now,

I don’t yet (knock on wood) have the symptoms described in the article. But at this point I’m not sure what things can happen due to this drug.

At this point I’ll wait it out, but if there’s pain accompanied with it, I’m definitely talking to my GP.

1 Like
#42

On topic:

Found a very interesting TED talk, by Donal Skinner, neuroendocrenologist. Describing the general ideas causing sex differences in the brain, it’ll give a quick background on the widely accepted theories around now: https://youtu.be/9x8yzoXQ-W4

He has also written an article on pubmed on the same topic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356085/

“ The development and expression of sexual partner preference has been extensively studied in rat, ferret, and sheep model systems. From these models it is clear that gonadal testosterone, often through estrogenic metabolites, cause both masculinization and defeminization of behavior during critical periods of brain development. Changes in the steroid environment during these critical periods result in atypical sexual partner preference. In this manuscript, we review the major findings which support the hypothesis that the organizational actions of sex steroids are responsible for sexual differentiation of sexual partner preferences in select non-human species. We also explore how this information has helped to frame our understanding of the biological influences on human sexual orientation and gender identity.”

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#43

Wow! Assuming that’s true, about estrogenic metabolites, it leads to additional credence that our gut microbiota could have something to do with this. condition, as has already been suspected with PFS, and also covered in the article below.

For me, it could explain why I’ve been worse after the appendicitis, because I was put on massive antibiotics during and afterwards, and my digestion has been even worse than before. And given the differences in everyone’s gut microbiota, it could explain why there are so many differences in this condition.

Of course, I’m not certain if this is a cause or effect of PFS, but after so many of us have tried every hormone we can get our hands on, I clearly wouldn’t rule it out at all. It would also explain a lot of things, especially improvements with diet, intermittent fasting, different effects with probiotics, rumored success with fecal transplants, SIBO and even the dreaded “three day recoveries”.

2 Likes
#44

With all of these studies, and so many researchers on topics seemingly connected to our condition, I’ve been tempted to reach out to so many of them, but would be out of my realm, and worry about poisoning the well for the rest of us, and not be taken seriously.

Having said that, I’m wondering if the moderators or the Foundation consider (or have considered) actively reaching out to researchers who may have value to our cause. There seem to be so many of them, and even a form letter, with some modifications, can go out to them. We have hundreds of studies, each often with several researchers, and we shouldn’t only theorize what their studies may mean compared to our condition.

It would cost us only some time to email these researchers, and share with them the good work the foundation has done, in hopes they can contribute to it. Even if it accomplishes nothing, at least we would have gotten the word out about PFS, and maybe, sometime in the future (and hopefully when I’m still alive) the condition will be taken seriously and a “cure” will be found.

#45

They actually did. @awor reached out and so did others. I’ve read probably (some say) one of the most valuable threads on this forum.

And it goes very much in depth as to what might be going on in some of the most severe cases.

The general consensus is, on the cases of the the worst among us is:

  • Hormone balance is in line
  • the 5AR is works to a needed extent
  • and also the androgen receptors show no defects.

But the actual gene expression following the androgen receptor signalling, isn’t functioning properly.

It could be caused by dna methylation/epigenetic changes, which are not necessarily permanent, but we have no clue how to influence them in either way, or even know which ones are responsible for the changrs we experience.

@awor and @AnhedonicApe for example both tried demthylation agents. But those afaik target tho whole system, and not a specific target.

It’s all here:

#46

That’s been happening for years. We have several researchers who are consulting us on how to proceed now post-Baylor and there is a very good chance there will be announcements soon.

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#47

Definitely believe the intestinal tract plays a crucial part in it all, seeing some people are doing well on gluten free diets, while also having read research on gluten free diet recently, improving zinc absorption in the body, while improves male functions of the body. (See more here)

I think it’s an important part to the broken mechanism.

I think the gut microbiome isn’t the only solution, but I believe it’s an essential part, that might be the last missing part in a recovery for some people, maybe for you as well!

1 Like
#48

mRNA levels of a relatively small number of genes decreased after Zeb treatment, as would be expected following demethylation, but a large percentage (22%) of them were candidate feminization genes, defined as those with higher expression in control females than in males and Zeb-treated females (Fig. 5a,d). This suggests that feminization genes are maintained at higher levels in females versus males in a manner that involves methylation, but is opposite to that of masculinization genes, which are repressed by methylation.

From the study.

Anyone who tried demethylation with success? @moonchild what do you think of this topic?