bostonusa2009's story

[m_81]

@bostonusa2009

T4 Total 6.5 (4.5-12.0)mcg/dL
T4 Free 1.1 (0.8-1.8) mg/dL
T3 Total 93 (76-181) ng/dL
T3 Reverse Pending

Your thyroid is low, probably because your T4, T3, and RT3 have been all consumed by your cortisol, which has been kept high with HC. A non-high RT3 would confirm this.

I’m a little pissed off that someone at the lab did not add Estradiol which I know was written on the paper work. My SHBG is clearly too high. Progesterone is low which is another indicator of thyriod problems.

If your cortisol is high, which I assume true because you are on HC, you are pretty much guaranteed to have low E2, at least based on experience of other people and myself. Or, do you have any high E2 symptoms? (gyno, sore nipples, etc…) Why do you say that high progesterone indicates thyroid issues? I think it indicates that your pregnenolone doesn’t get converted to progesterone, which could possibly point to a mild adrenal suppression caused by your supplementing with HC, for which your body needs to produce less pregnenolone.

I’m not sure what to do next since this doctor wants me to stop the HC before possibly beginning thyroid medication. This seems to be counter to what all of the info online indicates you should do.

In theory, a metabolism boost, caused by thyroid medications, will automatically “wake up” your adrenal glands so that you don’t need to take as much HC as you are taking now. That’s probably why your doctor told you to stop HC. But, in my opinion and experience, you should keep some HC to take when needed, for example if you take too much of thyroid medication. Also, according to JN, T4 is a better choice than T3, because he says it would also lower SHBG.

[bostonusa2009]

If your cortisol is high, which I assume true because you are on HC, you are pretty much guaranteed to have low E2, at least based on experience of other people and myself. Or, do you have any high E2 symptoms? (gyno, sore nipples, etc…) Why do you say that high progesterone indicates thyroid issues? I think it indicates that your pregnenolone doesn’t get converted to progesterone, which could possibly point to a mild adrenal suppression caused by your supplementing with HC, for which your body needs to produce less pregnenolone.

Yea it’s quite clear my thyroid is low. I think I agree with your opinion that my E2 is likely low. It was low on the last test, but I was kind of baffled with why all of a sudden it dropped down.

I was saying that my progesterone is low and that I had read that goes hand in hand with thyroid problems, not high. According to the reference range I should be 1.4 or above. Are you saying that is not correct?

In theory, a metabolism boost, caused by thyroid medications, will automatically “wake up” your adrenal glands so that you don’t need to take as much HC as you are taking now. That’s probably why your doctor told you to stop HC. But, in my opinion and experience, you should keep some HC to take when needed, for example if you take too much of thyroid medication. Also, according to JN, T4 is a better choice than T3, because he says it would also lower SHBG

Ok, well I guess that makes sense. I’m only on 10mg of HC a day and I question how much it’s doing anyway.

Regarding the T4, I thought JN was taking slow release T3, not T4. Are you sure he was taking just T4?

I also thought that the best way to remedy high RT3 problems is to take T3, not T4? I did know about the problem with taking only T3 and it binding up T to SHBG. That is one of the reasons I was fearful of taking just T3. So you don’t think a product like Armour would work? Do you feel it’s better to take just T4?

[m_81]

@bostonusa2009

I was saying that my progesterone is low and that I had read that goes hand in hand with thyroid problems, not high. According to the reference range I should be 1.4 or above. Are you saying that is not correct?

Your progesterone is low indeed, which I think is neither good nor bad per se. Progesterone is a feminizing hormone similarly to estradiol. But, unlike estradiol, it prevents hair loss. Progesterone is certainly high when you are a young man who doesn’t lose hair, but then it goes down when you become an aging man who loses hair (at some point between 17 and 30 years of age). Its decrease is caused by the natural downregulation of the cortisol production line. So, if your progesterone is low, it points to your cortisol production line being non-optimal, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that your pregnenolone is low or your cortisol is low. Why do you say it’s related to thyroid?

Regarding the T4, I thought JN was taking slow release T3, not T4. Are you sure he was taking just T4?

I also thought that the best way to remedy high RT3 problems is to take T3, not T4? I did know about the problem with taking only T3 and it binding up T to SHBG. That is one of the reasons I was fearful of taking just T3. So you don’t think a product like Armour would work? Do you feel it’s better to take just T4?

If you are taking enough HC, then, in theory, your RT3 should not be high, and you may talk to your doctor about going straight on T4. If RT3 turns out to be high*, then, yes, the best choice would be T3. Note, though, that the much longer half-life of T4 makes it hard to dose. That’s why some doctors suggest starting with T3 first, and switch to T4 later. JN was taking T3, had libido issues (possibly high SHBG, but he hasn’t measured it), and fixed these libido issues by switching to T4.

*RT3 can be high even in the presence of high cortisol in some cases, for example if you have a chronic inflammation or some other chronic physical stress.

[bostonusa2009]

Your progesterone is low indeed, which I think is neither good nor bad per se. Progesterone is a feminizing hormone similarly to estradiol. But, unlike estradiol, it prevents hair loss. Progesterone is certainly high when you are a young man who doesn’t lose hair, but then it goes down when you become an aging man who loses hair (at some point between 17 and 30 years of age). Its decrease is caused by the natural downregulation of the cortisol production line. So, if your progesterone is low, it points to your cortisol production line being non-optimal, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that your pregnenolone is low or your cortisol is low. Why do you say it’s related to thyroid?

ok, I had read through several sources online about low pregnenolone being related to thyroid issues. I can did up the links and post them if you like.

If you are taking enough HC, then, in theory, your RT3 should not be high, and you may talk to your doctor about going straight on T4. If RT3 turns out to be high*, then, yes, the best choice would be T3. Note, though, that the much longer half-life of T4 makes it hard to dose. That’s why some doctors suggest starting with T3 first, and switch to T4 later. JN was taking T3, had libido issues (possibly high SHBG, but he hasn’t measured it), and fixed these libido issues by switching to T4.

*RT3 can be high even in the presence of high cortisol in some cases, for example if you have a chronic inflammation or some other chronic physical stress.

To be quite honest, I don’t have a lot of confidence that my current doctor really knows what is best as far as how to treat this problem. He kept telling me I should take Cialis and give Welaburtin a try. Yet, I never complained about depression issues. He completely blew off the test results. Unfortunately, this is the only guy I have been able to find that will even work with me after about 10 doctor visits.

Thanks for the comments. It’s quite clear I have a thyroid problem, yet I’m not sure anyone is confident in how to properly treat it. The more I think about it, those of us that do have a thyriod issue should be seeing an expert in thyroid issues. Somone who sees thyroid patients on a daily basis. I just can’t seem to find one within 100 miles that accepts my insurance or doesn’t charge an outrageous consultation fee.

I just found a thryoid doctor in NJ who sees 5-6 thyriod patients a day. He’s highly recommended from one of the thryoid MB’s. I called and checked the rates, pretty reasonable for what most of these doctors charge. I booked an apt with this guy a couple of weeks from now. I’ll update once I have met with him. I just feel like I’m grasping at straws with my current doctor.

[bryce54]

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[bostonusa2009]

T3 Total 93 (76-181)
RT3 26 (11-32)

Ratio: 3.57 Not Good. I already knew I had this, but it was it was several mths prior that I tested and had to retest.

fyi it’s T3 divided by RT3 = ratio.

The ideal ratio should be 10:1, anything under is high RT3.

Check out this link. I spent a couple hours reading these threads on the subject. Dr John Chrisler chimes in a few times. His advice is to look at D1 enzyme. I’m still in the process of going through and trying to properly digest all of the info.

We definitely need to be supplementing Sellenium, Vit E, B6/12, Zinc, Vit C, Iodine. We may also need Iron as well. If we are low in Ferritin (Iron). I haven’t test the ferritin yet, but would imagine it’s low.

There’s definitly confilicting opinions on exactly how to address things. Most seem to agree deal with any possible Cortisol issue first. Which I have done. Thyroid meds can’t get to your cells without proper Cortisol. Also if your cortisol is low and you take T3 only your SHBG may bind up your testosterone.

Don’t take the Armour it won’t work. Trust me, I know. The last thing you need is additional T4 in your body, it will get converted to more RT3 and your RT3 will get worse. My doctor just scripted the T3 today, so I’m good to go. I am seeking the opinions of some of the more knowledgable guys on that thread before starting.

musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?2666-rT3-high-how-to-deal-with-it-2

[bryce54]

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[m_81]

@bostonusa2009

T3 Total 93 (76-181)
RT3 26 (11-32)

High RT3: this usually indicates low cortisol, which I had ruled out in my previous posts because you are on HC. Maybe you are not taking enough?

Don’t take the Armour it won’t work. Trust me, I know. The last thing you need is additional T4 in your body, it will get converted to more RT3 and your RT3 will get worse. My doctor just scripted the T3 today, so I’m good to go. I am seeking the opinions of some of the more knowledgable guys on that thread before starting.

Yep. Taking Armour with high RT3 will make RT3 even higher.

I saw your post on the link you posted. I’m curious to hear what Chilln thinks. Probably he thinks that your cortisol is too low despite HC intake. Be aware that taking T3 will raise your SHBG if you do not keep your cortisol high. In my case, adding T3 (10-15 mcg a day) actually made my SHBG drop from 51 to 43, because I keep my cortisol high by supplementing with enough pregnenolone.

[bryce54]

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[bryce54]

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[bostonusa2009]

@bryce54

@bryce54

i have the stop the thyroid madness book right in front of me and this is what it says according to the ratio (pg 163):

When they are both in the same unit of measurement, you then divide your RT3 into your free T3. You are looking for a ratio greater than 19 if the free T3 was orginally measured in pg/mL and the RT3 was in ng/mL.

Where did you get the 10 ratio? Toadstool also told me 10 before, but this book says it’s 19. Mine was around 14 or 15. And yeah, you are probably right on the armour. Did you take it before? Yeah I can see if we don’t have a thyroid problem, we just have a reverse t3 and cortisol problem. I’m going to buy the saliva test in the next week for sure.

nevermind on this. the ratio should be 10 if you are using total t3 which you did, and should be over 19 if you are using free t3.

Bryce,

I’m not sure about the calculation you used for Free T3, but if that is what is in the book “stop the thryoid madness” I’m sure it’s right. I started using only Quest Diagnostics, as they are more reputable than some of the others. Quest always lists Total & RT3.

[bostonusa2009]

Been a while since I added to my story thread.

I ran a new series of blood tests. I skipped most of the hormones, as we know those are messed up. I have done dozens of blood tests and those don’t change much at all for me. For this test I spoke with my doctor and we were more focused on testing for bacteria and other items.

GLU 79 (70-110 mg/dl)
BUN 13 (6-20 mg/dl)
NA 143 (136-145 mmol/L)
K 4.7 (3.5-5.0 mmol/L)
CL 104 (98-107 mmol/L)
CO2 31 (22-29 mmol/L) High
CREAT .9 (.6-1.2 mg/dl)
eGFR >60 (60- ml/min)
eGFR AA >60 (60-ml/min)
AGAP 8.0 7-18
OSMO CAL 284 (273-304 mOsm/kg
CAL 10.2 (8.6-10.5 mg/dl)
TB .5 (.3-1.2 mg/dl
ALK 40 (25-100 U/L)
AST/SGOT 37 (8-30 U/L) High
ALT/SGPT 25 (10-40 U/L)
TP 7.6 (6.4-8.3 gm/dl)
ALB 4.7 (3.4-4.7 gm/dl)
A/G Ratio 1.6 (.7-1.7)
CHOL 148 (120-200 mg/dl)
HDL 62 (41-76 mg/dl)

WBC 4.9 (3.5-11.0 10n3 UL
RBC 4.84 (4.30-5.70 10n6 UL)
HGB 14.9 (13.3-17.0 gm/dl)
HCT 44.3 (38.0-51.0%
MCV 91.5 (80-100 fl)
MCH 30.8 (27-34 pg)
MCHC 33.6 (32-37%)
PLAT 209 (150-450 10n3 ul)
NEUT 63 (45-85%)
LYMPH 26 (20-45%)
MON 9 (1-10%)
EO 1 (0-3%)
BAS 0 (0-2%)
NEUT ABS 3.1 (2.0-7.0 10n3 ul)
MORPH Norm (Normal)
ESR 2 (0-15)

CRP Creative Reactive Protein

0.012 (0.00-0.50 mg/dl)

CRP Values between 0.1-0.3 mg/dl, may be at an intermediate risk for CVD.
CRP values <5.0-.3 mg dl indicate slight to moderate inflammation
CRP values >5.0 indicate high and extensive inflammation.

Lead <5 (<10 ug/dl)
TSH 3.76 (0.35-5.50 uIU/ml
LM AB C6 Negative (Negative)
ANA SCR Negative (NEG)
RPR Non-React (Non-React)

Testos 572 (240-950 ng/dl
Free Test 9.2 (9-30 ng/dl)
Mercury 3 (0-9 ng/ml)

The issues are Carbon Dioxide and more importantly AST/ SGOT. This test is primarily a liver test, but I also saw info that it is related to heart and other muscles. I wanted to spend some time to see if the raised CO2 could be related to the AST, but haven’t had time yet today.

This website has some possibilities for what the results could from be from other than the obvious damage to the liver.

I figured I would ask my doctor to add Toxic metals to the list of test items, since we were doing another test. He argued with me and asked me if I had ever been exposed to toxic metals, So I couldn’t get Copper added to the list. I’m only mentioning this because it shows up on this link below as a possible cause.

It also lists Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis are diseases with chronic inflammation of the intestines (also referred to as inflammatory bowel diseases). In these individuals inflammation of the liver (hepatitis) or bile ducts (primary sclerosing cholangitis) also can occur, causing abnormal liver tests. And the one everyone remember Wilson’s syndrome. Could it just be bile? I am lost and really scared right now. I think you guys should add this AST/SGOT to your list of items to test for.

The only good thing worth noting is the inflammation test CRP, came back with decent results. I’m wondering if it’s possible to have inflammation of certain organs like mentioned above and not test high on a CRP test.

[bostonusa2009]

I have booked an apt next week to address the raised AST/SGOT results with a gastroenterologist. I don’t recall many of us having gone to see one of these doctors. The intestines & liver likely are playing a role, at least in my situation. I’ll update once I have met with him.

[bluejaysfan]

Have you had your bilirubin tested lately? Mine was double the high value.

I started about a week ago to take calcium d-glucarate. Supposed to help detoxing in phase 2 of the liver.

[bluejaysfan]

@bostonusa2009

I have booked an apt next week to address the raised AST/SGOT results with a gastroenterologist. I don’t recall many of us having gone to see one of these doctors. The intestines & liver likely are playing a role, at least in my situation. I’ll update once I have met with him.

Gastro is on my list, too. I agree 100% that liver/intestines/digestion is part of the problem for some of us, anyways.

[bostonusa2009]

@bluejaysfan

@bostonusa2009

I have booked an apt next week to address the raised AST/SGOT results with a gastroenterologist. I don’t recall many of us having gone to see one of these doctors. The intestines & liver likely are playing a role, at least in my situation. I’ll update once I have met with him.

Gastro is on my list, too. I agree 100% that liver/intestines/digestion is part of the problem for some of us, anyways.

Hey bluejaysfan,

You and I are on the same page with this for sure. I just some time researching and all of these below are considered markers for liver damage. I didn’t have the ALB or TBIL test done, which I image the gastro dr will look at. After reading this info, the AST & ALT are commonly looked at together. Sometimes the high AST can come from Red blood cells or be a marker for the heart as well. The AST test is not used as a specific test for liver damage.

I was just starting to look into the bilirubin. According to this link, The liver is responsible for clearing the blood of bilirubin, which is secreted into the bile and excreted in the intestines. Have you done any research to determine if this is more likely an issue of the intestines?

Did you notice any benefits from the calcium d-glucarate?

Albumin (Alb)

Reference range
3.5 to 5.3 g/dL
Albumin is a protein made specifically by the liver, and can be measured cheaply and easily. It is the main constituent of total protein; the remaining fraction is called globulin (including the immunoglobulins). Albumin levels are decreased in chronic liver disease, such as cirrhosis. It is also decreased in nephrotic syndrome, where it is lost through the urine. Poor nutrition or states of impaired protein catabolism, such as in Ménétrier’s disease, may also lead to hypoalbuminaemia. The half-life of albumin is approximately 20 days. Albumin is not considered to be an especially useful marker of liver synthetic function; coagulation factors (see below) are much more sensitive

[edit]Alanine transaminase (ALT)
Reference range
9 to 40 IU/L[4]
Alanine transaminase (ALT), also called Serum Glutamic Pyruvate Transaminase (SGPT) or Alanine aminotransferase (ALAT) is an enzyme present in hepatocytes (liver cells). When a cell is damaged, it leaks this enzyme into the blood, where it is measured. ALT rises dramatically in acute liver damage, such as viral hepatitis or paracetamol (acetaminophen) overdose. Elevations are often measured in multiples of the upper limit of normal (ULN).

[edit]Aspartate transaminase (AST)
Reference range
10 to 35 IU/L[4]
Aspartate transaminase (AST) also called Serum Glutamic Oxaloacetic Transaminase (SGOT) or aspartate aminotransferase (ASAT) is similar to ALT in that it is another enzyme associated with liver parenchymal cells. It is raised in acute liver damage, but is also present in red blood cells, and cardiac and skeletal muscle and is therefore not specific to the liver. The ratio of AST to ALT is sometimes useful in differentiating between causes of liver damage.[5][6] Elevated AST levels are not specific for liver damage, and AST has also been used as a cardiac marker.

[edit]Alkaline phosphatase (ALP)
Reference range
30 to 120 IU/L[4]
Alkaline phosphatase (ALP) is an enzyme in the cells lining the biliary ducts of the liver. ALP levels in plasma will rise with large bile duct obstruction, intrahepatic cholestasis or infiltrative diseases of the liver. ALP is also present in bone and placental tissue, so it is higher in growing children (as their bones are being remodelled) and elderly patients with Paget’s disease.

[edit]Total bilirubin (TBIL)
Reference range
0.2–1.2 mg/dL
Bilirubin is a breakdown product of haem (a part of haemoglobin in red blood cells). The liver is responsible for clearing the blood of bilirubin. It does this by the following mechanism: Bilirubin is taken up into hepatocytes, conjugated (modified to make it water-soluble), and secreted into the bile, which is excreted into the intestine.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_panel

[Luckfax]

My AST and ALT were both sky high in one test then came down again. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

[bostonusa2009]

@Luckfax

My AST and ALT were both sky high in one test then came down again. I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

You should read a little further. The problem is tied to the intestines. The exact same area where JN’s Doctor found parasites. It apparently has a lot of significance.

[Luckfax]

Have you ever had a lot of gassiness, bloating and even flatulence? I get this, perhaps it’s related.

[bluejaysfan]

An issue of intestines? … Haven’t really done research on it. I know that I had one of my longest and best stretches while on dig enzymes and probiotics. This is another reason I suspect liver and/or intestines, digestion, etc. Why else would it have helped? It was basically all I was taking for a while.

My idiot doctor told me I had Gilbert’s Syndrome years ago, while on propecia and just basically said it was harmless. I’m sure my bilirubin has tested higher and higher since. I’ve had trouble with constipation sometimes. Right now I’m just taking the cal g and metamucil.

I’m pretty regular and it’s effortless. I think the cal g has helped my erections. I don’t think it does anything for libido… But, once I get the erection its as hard as if I was on cialis.

I was in a bit of a down phase, erection wise until I started the cal g a little over a week or so. I had a cialis on Friday and no way I could still have it in my system 4 days later.

I’m getting a thorough look at my pelvis, prostate, prostate fluid this weekend at a private clinic in Toronto. This guy will also book me a TRUS… The main reason I’m going here since my Uro turned that request down. It’s costing me 250. This guy does prostate draining too. I think for 70 a visit.

Hopefully in the next month I can help with some useful info. Problem is I think it’s a combo of liver, pelvis/prostate, being hypothyroid and possible cortisol issues. It’s a long road.