Body responds negatively to androgens

General Discussion
#30

Everyday i wakeup in the morning from my unrefreshed 6 hrs sleep, i am just in regret and remorse. I have been totally suicidal since 3 months and keep visiting this forum every few hours in need of some hope. I have read 1000s of post here and i got no answer for my miserable condition. Even the disease is not a problem, but the thought that this disease is permanent and i am just 22 year old who has whole life ahead is what makes me suicidal. I am just trying to cope becoz of my mother. She is my responsibility. She has already suffered a lot in her life and now it’s me. I feel like this miserable condition is due to some of my bad karma. But then again, there are more bad people than any of us who live their life king size. I have started to have paranoia. I have become jealous of people around me. Last week i had my final exam and i was about to faint in the examination hall becoz my body cant handle the stress anymore. My hands started to become pale. Felt like i have nothing left in my body. My results came yesterday and i am the last in my class even though i have been preparing for this exam since months day and night. The depression and anhedonia i have is miserable. I can’t blame anyone. It is all becoz of me and my stupid decision of saving hair.

U need to know that there are a lot of people in this world like u. Some are suffering even more than us.

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#31

Can somebody stell my who low DHT should be the answer?
Low DHT is the Problem right and couses by negativ Feedback in the Hypothalamus because of the sensitiv AR .
So im my world its absoluty logical to use high DHT to to get the AR used to High DHT levels.
Or whats the Problem with this Theorie im new here so please tell me why ?
Yes the the AR is sensitiv but you could rise the levels slow every week step by step .

#32

Stay positive guys , things will improve with time ( don’t listen to the negative folks who tell you otherwise ) , bear in mind that it’s a slow process and that most people won’t heal overnight , good things take time to come to fruition @LazarusRy @Papasmurf

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#33

Can you share any previous bloodwork? This level of anxiety/suicidal ideation indicates your Serotonin may be way too low. I’ve had similar experience when my estrogen was too low due to taking several anti-estrogen plus androgenic stuff. I’ve said this a million times already, don’t push androgens too high with androgenic stuff (proviron included) if you’re unsure what is your estrogen level. Those heart palpitations may mean your adrenaline is shooting through the roof.

Try and test your estrogen level (E2) ASAP. Meanwhile; ~25mg-50mg 5-htp may temporarily help until your get needed tests done.

#34

Interesting take , i have a lowish T for my age (in the 300s) and my estradiol level is very high (around 45 pg/ml ) , i was planning to do a clomid + armidex but recently i’ve backtracked re the armidex , i think i’ll go with clomid solo even if my Estradiol level goes through the roof @doomed80

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#35

What are the symptoms of a typical low estrogen?

#36

In your particular case, I’d consider natural ways/supplements as a first line of attack to balance estrogen and improve T:E2 ratio. By simply lowering E2 to a more healthy level will help raise your Testosterone and DHT. E2 is part of the HPTA-axis negative feedback loop, meaning the hypothalamus controls Testosterone production through monitoring its level and adjust LH & FSH accordingly.

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#37

Anxiety; fat gain; lethargy; joints pain; low libido; anhedonia; night sweats; suicidal ideation (when level gets way too low) to name a few.

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#38

Which ways/supplements do you recommend ? thanks @doomed80

#39

Please do your own research before taking anything as to not jeopardize further worsening of your issues. That said, the following may help lower E2 and balance things out:

Tongkat Ali: I’ve taken 160mg/d from brand “Source Naturals” before. It’s among the few herbs out there with actual studies supporting it to raise T. It helps lower SHBG and E2, which increases free T and DHT.

Also green tea exract, cruciferous vegetables such as Broccoli, olive oil, Vitamins E and K2, and Zinc. Losing extra weight (and fat) also helps.
@PFS25

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#40

Thanks for your reply , i’m already on 500g broccoli per day and i’m doing another blood test to check if E2 level went down but i’m relucant to use zinc and other vitamins , i crashed on zinc 8 months into pfs ( extensive work out also played a part in this ) it’s an 5ar inhibitor and i don’t think it’s safe for pfs especially if you abuse on it , tongkat ali sounds promising though , i’d certainly give it a shot

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#41

Kudos for being careful @PFS25 I’ve used a lot of stuff and I’ve had my fair share of trial and fail. Definitely see if you can get hold of Tongkat Ali. If I were in your shoes, I’ll get another test for E2 using sensitive assay to check its current level before considering anything.

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#42

“I’ll get another test for E2 using sensitive assay to check its current level before considering anything.” if the level of sensitivity is high what does it means from a protocol perspective , how do you adapt to that ? @doomed80

#43

There’s the standard assay and then there’s the sensitive assay for E2. We only have the standard one where I live and it’s said that it overestimates the measured E2 value since it’s mainly targeted for women (E2 ~ 300+). The sensitive test provides a more accurate E2 value for men and thus helps in making better decisions. E2 is measured in pg/ml and optimal value for most men usually lies somewhere in the 22-30 range. I feel best around ~20 with T around 600. Thus T/E2 ratio of 30. You need to find that subtle sweet spot, you’ll know it when you hit it.
@PFS25

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#44

I think a combination of tribulus and proviron may turn out to be helpful , i don’t think that our issue is related to the level of androgens in the blood but more to how the body uses the androgens , that’s why even people with low t don’t get a lot of benefits from TRT and clomid

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#45

This is very controversial and is not set in stone. I prefer a very individualistic approach as long as PFS is concerned. I had my say about proviron on other threads and while I think it may prove helpful in selected cases, it’s far from a universal treatment. Speaking of which, you seem like a good candidate for low dose proviron if E2 turns out high and T low. SHBG should also be tested.

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#46

thanks for your advices , what’s your take on mediherb tribulus ? since it raises E2 , i thought that using proviron alongside trib will help to prevent E2 from escalating , many members have reported sympthoms of high E2 whilst on trib and the use of Al remains out of question

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#47

Frankly, I’m not sure what to think. I’ve taken tribulus (from different brands) in the past among several other T-boosting herbs so I couldn’t isolate its affects on E2 specifically. Generally, I thought it was helping my “libido” but my E2 was very low at the time.

I’ve read conflicting opinions on tribulus on other forums. You may have to trial with things at some point and see how you feel vs. what you see on bloodwork. That said, try to experiment with only one thing at a time to isolate its effect.

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#48

I saw one tribulus brand and it’s written 40% saponins. What does it mean?

#49

I can only really chime in with some thoughts. However I have found that lifting weights essentially worsens the condition. I.e. boosting androgen levels through working out with weights. It triggers a short depression, which then takes about 24hrs to resolve. It happens like clockwork - lift the weights, and the depression starts. So, I do not lift, bro. Only some bodyweight stuff to keep myself ticking over. Cardio does not trigger the same response. Cardio seems to specifically improve my health if sustained habitually. It is good for boosting energy levels and general feeling of wellbeing.

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