Blood Tests PRE and POST Finasteride!

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

You’ll find my profile under:

viewtopic.php?t=757

Sorry if my post was a little emotional and/or graphic for some, I am on a almost unbearable emotional roller-coaster at the moment.

Well, here is my blood work. What makes my case probably slightly unique is that I was on TRT way before starting Propecia. I don’t have to many assays but enough to show one major change that happened to me pre/post Propecia: my SHBG went through the roof! relative to Total Testosterone it increased by a whopping factor 3.4 over baseline! Thanks to Hypo for pointing me in that direction.

Actually, SHBG is still well within range but not compared to my personal baseline. I guess if I hadn’t had my SHBG tested pre Propecia most doctors would look at my SHBG value and conclude that it is within the reference range. I also calculated the FAI (Free Androgen Index) - hopefully correctly - and found that to be well below reference after Propecia.

From what I understand about SHBG is that it binds with highest affinity to DHT, then Testosterone and last Estrogen. This leads me to the careful conclusion that even if my body is producing DHT again, it is probably being all mopped up by SHBG before it can do any good. I am wondering if maybe much of my Testosterone is getting bound to SHBG before it can be converted to DHT by 5AR? As you can see in my original post, I assumed most of all DHT had left my system. Hypo then pointed out to me that it could just as well be SHGB. I suppose that could explain many of my symptoms.

Anybody, feel free to comment on these conclusions.

I do have more detailed blood work, but only post-propecia. If anybody is interested in any further details let me know and I’ll post it (I have T3/4, Prolactin, DHEA and IGF-1).

Just to make one point absolutely clear: Even though my pre propecia figures are on the low side, my sexual function and everything else in my life was perfectly fine. Also, don’t get misled by low LH/FSH - in my condition and after years of TRT that is fairly normal - the HPTA axis gets pretty badly suppressed after a while on TRT. But as I said, low LH/FSH was never a problem for me since I was on TRT so whatever LH/FSH are now, that shouldn’t be a problem either.

I will be seeing my (new) endo this coming tuesday and new blood work is scheduled. He hasn’t seen my pre Propecia figures yet and I am very curious to hear what he has to say about my SHBG. I am pretty sure that my T and E will be roughly baseline. So the big question mark will surely be: How to bring down SHBG from the (relative) stratosphere back down to earth?

#2

So you are still on TRT and you now have LH and FSH levels in the low normal range? That’s odd as TRT should still continue suppressing the HPTA and thus LH/FSH should remain at the close to nil numbers.

Your new Endo will probably say you are fine. SHBG is very good at that level as it is. You can’t suggest a level is your ‘personal’ baseline cuz you felt good at that specific level. SHBG has a large range that represents healthy so don’t expect a ‘I have a solution for you’ comment from your new Dr. It does not sound like you can afford to get your hopes up to get let down…as you showed emotional instability earlier.

Good Luck

#3

I stopped TRT after quitting Propecia because the effect it had was unbearable. This was also the suggestion of my (old) endo. I only started TRT (gel) again a day before test 3. So only Test 1 is under steady state TRT. I am now on TRT again since two weeks so the next blood work will be more representative as to LH/FSH.

#4

Very interesting, thanks for posting this. If possible, I’d like you to post the rest of your post-propecia bloodwork… I am very interested to see your Prolactin numbers specifically.

Also, Hypo will likely say the following regarding reducing high SHBG – Dr. Shippen apparently has used it in low doses to bring down high SHBG levels. Do a search on “danazol” on the forum and on GOOGLE…

I’m not 100% certain about this drug as it is primairly meant for women (endometriosis) and from what I read, may have a negative effect on the HTPA for men… but don’t quote me on that, do your research. Hypo probably knows more about it, anyway.

Keep us updated, thanks.

#5

I can see two blood tests post propecia use, but the blood test pre propecia use is marked as being three week post testoviron depot injection.

Out of interest why were you on testosterone replacement therapy pre propeica use?

I have to say that because you were on endocrine affecting medication before propecia use it is more difficult to ascertain endocrine effects because the HPTA is supressed.

All the testosterone values are low and that includes the 328ng/dl value on TRT.

SHBG did increase and on propecia DHT would have also declined.

That said your testosterone level has been simply to low.

#6

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#7

Just got back some figures:

Total T: 52.2 nmol/l (12-35)
E: 79 pmol/l (<160)
LH: 0.1 mU/ml ( 1.5-9.2)
FSH: 0.1 mU/ml (1.0-14.0)
SHBG: 25.5 nmol/l (10.0-73.0)
Progesterone: 0.5 nmol/l (0.95-2.9)

I am back on Testoviron and have been through various T levels from initially 6 nmol/l up to current over 50 (that’s almost 1500 ng/dL). Pretty much zero effect.

My doc is tracking Hemoglobin and PSA as further indicators of androgen activity. No effect there either:

Hb 167 g/l (140-180)
PSA 0.528 ng/ml (<2.00)

Of those who have tried TRT: Has anyone had a positive effect?

#8

Is testoviron an injectable? What is the dose? Your hormones seem optimal. I am counting on TRT to get me back, but no-one with finproblems seems to get any better by doing so, it’s not looking too good. I am getting extremely worried about all of this if one feels no different with such a good T-level.

Any changes regarding your physical changes downstairs? Mine feels a bit better, but great problems still persist…

#9

Yes, Testoviron is an injectable. You’ll never produce this amount of test naturally, no matter what you throw at “them”. For dosis see my thread:

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=757

My levels are not optimal - they are too high. Even that hasn’t helped though - so don’t get your hopes up on TRT. It is not the anwser and I am not sure it has ever helped any of “us”.

Btw, I meant to post this into my blood thread, sorry - hit the wrong button. Perhaps you could move it to the right place Mew?

Thx.

#10

Those are good numbers on testo250 every two weeks ADAIK. I too am almost certain something more than just hormones are screwed up - libido and ED should not be an issue even if T is not in the upper range. I remember having dirty thoughts and erections as a kid and i’m sure my T was lower than during any of this finmess.

#11

Therapeutic dosing ranges from 100mg - 200mg per week. Body builders usually inject at half of half life (eg 200 every 3 days, half life is 7 days). Natural test production is around 12mg per day. My current dosing peaks at 50mg per day. That’s a lot.

Besides the whole libido/eg issue there is also lean (muscle) mass as an indicator. I used to grow nicely at 250mg every two weeks. Now I can inject the same dosis every 3-4 days and can barely keep my weight (lean mass). The action of testosterone on the androgen receptor of musle tissue normaly increases protein turnover / positive nitrogen balance which leads to muscle growth. That doesn’t work anymore either. No adrenal fatigue, prostate or whatever other theory can explain that.

The only reasoning that fits the picuture in my opinion is that the androgen receptor is not reacting to the hormone any longer. That just seems like plain logic to me. For me the big question is “why” and “what” regulates the androgen receptor.

Btw, if you are still considering trt stay away from gel. It converts into estrogen much stronger than inections because it is absorbed through skin. Underneath the skin there is fat tissue. That’s where the aromatase enzyme lives which will convert your freshly rubbed in test gel (in part) to estrogen. Estrogen will increase your problems and accelerate gyno. Here again: Normally the action of dht/test on the androgen receptor would offset the action of estrogen and the action of estrogen would not be a problem. I said normally…

#12

“That doesn’t work anymore either. No adrenal fatigue, prostate or whatever other theory can explain that.”

You are right. I even had an adrenal test and my output is completely normal. My theory on the “crash” had to do with a sudden change in DHT, quickly decreased T-levels and a shock to the prostate, but it really does not explain all of this. I had decent T levels at one point after fin (23nmol) and felt extremely ill (weak, bloated, weight gain, zero libido, ed etc.) so I’m not at all convinced increasing T will help, but it’s the last feasible option.

If I can get my doctor on board with all of this, I will try 250 every 10 days or week. The standard procedure among endos here seems to be to inject 250 every three weeks. I am not a medical professional, but I can imagine that problems will arise at the third week, if not sooner. I do not want to rub gel every day and am under the impression that it’s worse for hairloss(quite funny that I’m still a bit worried about that).
Will get my last T result soon, if it’s still low - I see no option. Sorry to hijack your thread, but we seem to be in a similar situation so it’s important to keep each other updated.

#13

Consider Clomid or hCG to boost your own endogeneous production before jumping on TRT for life, and shutting yourself down. Studies supporting this are in Drug Therapy section.

#14

That would be smart. But believe or not, hCG is not prescribed here for hypogonadism problems and even clomid is used more for fertility problems. Every doc just prescribes testogel. Will ask though, as TRT is for life, it is not a tempting option.

#15

If docs “there” (where is “there”?) won’t consider such options, perhaps you might need to consider flying to see one who will.

#16

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#17

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#18

Yup, had it retested a year later, turned out 0.3 (same scale). Won’t sleep anymore without medicine, fatigue: yes. But things aren’t always that simple. My cortisol/dhea are fine. It could be that the reason for the low Progesterone is one step upstream. I am going to check out Pregnenolone next (precursor for Progesterone). If Pregnenolone is too low, then there is no raw material for 3-beta-HSD to synthesize Progesterone. Pregnenolone is converted from CHOL by P450scc which is controlled by pituitary tropic hormones, such as ACTH, FSH, LH. Both FSH and LH are zero with me cause I’m on Test. See what I mean? Might then consider supplementing Pregnenolone. Does anyone have any first hand experience with Pregnenolone supplementation (preferably cream)? Btw, that is the advantage of the “Crisler” TRT Protocol. He adds two HCG injections to the weekly Test injections. If Pregnenolone turns out low too, HCG would definitly help because it is a LH analog and should thus give P450scc a kick. I even have HCG at home but I’m very resilient to using it because it also stimulates testicular Estrogen production to some degree. Since the androgenic action is currently not there to offset this, I am probably not going to feel too good.

#19

Awor try contacting Italysideffect, he has been taking pregnenolone cream
and feel some positive effect from it.

#20

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