Blood tests after 10 fin pills

Member Stories Lab Tests
#27

I am in a similar boat. I took 5 pills, and seem to have similar issues with my bloodwork. I scanned the thread, and had some slightly different symptoms than you, one being some moderate gynecomastia development. In the last 2 weeks, I have seen some very encouraging improvements, so I figured I’d post quick. I have a longer post on here about some of my symptoms, and I figure I’m going to post a recovery effort thread with my experiences. I’m not recovered, but I sure feel great these last couple weeks.

Bloodwork, most recent 4 months ago (I bolded the ones I think are the issue):
Age: 32
Testosterone (241 to 827): 628.3
Free T: 11.2
Estradiol (<39.8): 37.01
Cortisol (4.3 to 22.4): 23.24
SHBG (11 to 56): 53
DHT (16 to 79): 46

Random Thoughts For Discussion (I am NOT a doctor…but have googled a lot. Just what I think may be an issue, and I’m basing how I try to recover on this. LMK your thoughts, as I’d love to discuss and try to optimize/speed up my recovery) – if anyone knows areas of this that are wrong, please copy/paste and correct it:

I am planning on changing some lifestyle habits and diet, in an effort to lower my estrogen levels naturally, and then resume exercise when it may not be such a huge shock to my system, as a further method of improving my levels.

Here is what has worked so far for me, and, in the 2 years since the 5 propecia pills, I feel the best I ever have for a 2 week period.

1-I temporarily stopped the exercise, I plan to resume in about a month; with the slight gyno development, I could feel tenderness in my chest when all of my symptoms would worsen, at any point during the day, including when I would exercise. This has been a rollercoaster over the course of a day, and has naturally been getting better since I have taken propecia. Time seems to help. I would say that I felt this discomfort in my chest about 10 hours per day right after taking propecia, maybe about 5 hours after about a year, and down to about an average of about 2-3 hours a few weeks ago, and now I’m going days without feeling it at all. I take this to mean that things are going better, and I’m using this discomfort (what I believe to be breast growth) as a sort of signal on what seems to help. I am assuming that this means my Estrogen levels are too high when I feel this, and better when I do not.

2-I changed up a very health diet, into a healthier one, focusing on Estrogen reducing foods and hormone free/farmers market. Note: I modified my diet about a year ago to accommodate for a food intolerance also. This seems to have been the thing that may have just pushed it over the top. I feel great these last 2 weeks. I am sourcing all foods from local farmers markets, and selecting hormone-free options, and organic produce, and avoiding any other chemical crap. Here is my grocery list basically:

Seafood, all, wild caught
Meat, all, hormone-free
Eggs, cage free, hormone free
Nuts and Seeds - I limit this, due to a food intolerance, no more than about 20 per sitting, no pistachios, added: pumpkin seeds
Vegetables (limited due to food intolerance): tomato, peppers, zuchini, spinach, carrots, cucumber, broccoli (limited)
Fruits: pineapple, all berries, banana, oranges (lots), kiwi, avocado (limit), lemon/limes, all citrus
Grains: white rice, gluten free pasta (once every other week or so), potato, oatmeal, corn tortillas (I question this one)
Spices: all except garlic/onion
Oils: Olive Oil, EVOO, butter: sweet cream/EVOO mix
Sauces: Pasta Sauce, no garlic/onion, very rare
Beverages: Rice Milk, Water

I had to tailor my diet to a food intolerance, so there are many other estrogen reducing foods I found that I am not sure if I can eat or not. I haven’t listed these, but did make up a full list of them. I am only eating/drinking the things on this list (ie no alcohol!, etc), and making the vast majority of all meals.

Change in symptoms to date:
Energy levels have greatly increased
Gynecomastia has improved; although on this, the part that has improved was the loose, almost bloated like areas on my chest. This is completely gone, and my gyno looks better. The part that has not improved was what seems to be harder/rubbery areas around my armpits. If I slip up, this bloated area seems to return within a few hours. I do not believe it is fat at all, and it caused by an increase in Estrogen levels. I must be on the borderline of too much estrogen for my body.
Sex drive is improving, and I had a couple morning erections for the first time in forever
I no longer feel slight joint pain, which also came and went
I am able to think clearer, quicker; I basically feel like I did before propecia for 2 weeks in a row now, with the gyno still there/sex drive still lower
Basically, all symptoms have improved from my other thread, maybe on a scale of 10, from a 3 to a 6.

My plan is to:
Continue this hormone free, organic, very tailored diet, when I stop feeling the discomfort in my chest when working out, I am going to add back in exercise. Note: I had already changed my sleep schedule to be more consistent, increased water intake to avoid any dehydration, ensured my micronutrients were being met, reduced stress levels, etc. I’m going to get bloodwork done as often as I can, to see if these changes are helping. I am trying to lower E, which will then hopefully lower SHBG, and improve the free T levels, and lower my cortisol. Hopefully these changes help.

Please lmk your thoughts. This got a bit longer than anticipated. I’ll probably turn this into a recovery thread to get other people’s opinions.

#28

@OneTerribleIdea – I’m sorry I didn’t see this earlier in the year. The interface of this forum isn’t great for knowing who’s replying to threads + I’m not spending a lot of time on the forum (it’s a pretty depressing place).

But your plan looks sound. Any recovery regimen starts with eating better and exercising. I’ve been doing it for three years now, and while my situation have improved, I’m nowhere near where I was before finasteride. So diet/lifestyle is part of the answer, but it doesn’t seem to be enough.

Your bloodwork is indeed very similar to mine, apart from the cortisol (I’ve always tested normal on that.) How are you doing now?

––––––

NEW BLOODWORK:

SHBG – 71 (13-71 nmol/l)
Free T - 42.3 (47-244 pg/ml)
Bioavailable testosterone 112.5 (128-430 ng/dl)
DHT 598 (106-719 pg/ml)

IGF-1 155 (109-307 ng/ml)
Transforming Growth Factor Beta - 2202 (3465-13889 pg/ml)

–––––––

These are the “highlights” from an array of tests I’ve taken in the last few weeks that also included thyroid and cortisol tests. (Both tests were normal, btw. The thyroid tests were encouraging, since I quit T3/T4 supplementation cold turkey a few months back. Good to see that at least some system can bounce back to normal.)

I’ve had similar results a few times now, and the pattern is clear – normal/high DHT, low testosterone across the board, high SHBG, and normal estrogen.

The tests explains my current symptoms pretty well – very low libido and penile sensitivity. Poor memory, energy, motivation. Still, I can have sex with good stamina and erections, since DHT-dependent tissue is concentrated at the “core” of the penis (responsible for erections and ejaculation), and testosterone dependent tissue is on the “surface”. Continuing hair loss is also consistent with the test results.

Disclaimer – wild speculation below –>

Why the DHT/T imbalance? It could be that somehow 5AR is overactive, and converting T to DHT way to quickly. SHBG has higher affinity to DHT, which could lead to the high SHBG levels, which also serve to depress T.

The IGF-1 and TGF-beta results are also interesting. They are related to the release of HGH, which is in a negative feedback loop with DHT. Many people here report good improvements on HGH (although it doesn’t seem like a cure). It seems like HGH (or sermorelin) supplementation could be a good alternative for me. It could increase cell repair and put the body in an anabolic state (which could increase T output), and put a light downward pressure on DHT.

In any case, I’m doing a test for HGH next week.

#29

Test for HGH came back: 0.2 on a 0-10 scale. Definitely room for upwards mobility.

My doctor has a good case for prescribing it now, so I might give it a try. Expensive as hell, though – $900.

#30

Blood tests from 10/27/15

Testosterone 920 (348-1197 ng/dl)
Free testosterone 17.2 (8.7-25.1 pg/ml)
DHT 86 (30-85 ng/dl) – HIGH
SHBG 60.3 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L) - HIGH

For the first time, my free T is normal!

#31

my gh was 0.2 the range was 0 to 30.

What did GH help with?

My urine GH is also very low.

But I kind of sceptical that this is the root cause.

What benefits did u get from GH.

My shbg is now over range and free t below range.

Why is SHBG high?

#32

Overall energy and well-being. But the effect was minor, the drug was expensive, hard to administer, and had some unpredictable side effects.

That’s been my situation for years. SHBG was gradually inching upwards, while free T was going down.

That’s the million dollar question. I’ve asked that question myself for five years now.

#33

Thanks for that…

I am also pretty sure that low GH is not the root of the problem.

Are you going to remain on GH?

#34

I stopped taking it because of cost/convenience/side effects. Didn’t seem worth it.

#35

Now that I’m cancer free, I can go back to working on PFS issues – here’s the result from my recent blood test:

Bioavailable T (without SHBG) – 661 (348-1197 ng/dl)
Bioavailable T, S – 112 (128 -430 ng/dl) LOW
Bioavailable T Percentage – 17%

Testosterone, Total – 720 (348-1197 ng/dl)
Free Testosterone – 5.7 (8.7-25.1 pg/ml) LOW

Dihydrotestosterone – 81 (30-85 ng/dl)
SHBG – 104.8 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L) HIGH
Progesterone – 0.5 (0.2-1.4 ng/ml)
Pregnenolone – 21 (<151 ng/dl)
Estradiol – 18.4 (7.6-42.6 pg/ml)
Prolactin – 7.7 (4.0-15.2 ng/ml)

LH – 4.1 (1.7-8.6 mIU/ml)
FSH – 27.2 (1.5-12.4 mIU/ml) HIGH

Vitamin D – 51.8 (30.0-100.0 ng/ml)

TSH – 1.560 (0.450-4.500 uIU/ml)
Reverse T3 – 17.7 (9.2-24.1 ng/dl)
Free T4 – 1.41 (0.82-1.77 ng/ml)
Free T3 – 3.3 (2.0-4.4 pg/ml)

–––

The trend of rising SHBG has been going on for years now – 104.8 is a new high for me. It’s a very confusing result, given that I have top of range DHT, normal E, and a reasonable total T level.

My thyroid levels look OK, but with the fairly high RT3 I end up with a 1.9 RT3/T3 ratio – it’s supposed to be more than 20. I don’t know how much of a problem this is.

I have high FSH – I don’t know what to make of that either – it seems like a measurement that’s connected to sperm production and fertility. Does anybody have a good resource to read about high FSH?

#36

High iron can raise SHBG, have you ever tested your iron levels?

#37

I just had my iron/ferritin levels checked again, and it came out fine.

#38

Got some new tests taken. I asked for DHT to be included, but the incompetent doctor forgot to put it in.

Testosterone, Serum – 661 ng/dl (264-916)
Testosterone, Free – 13.22 ng/dl (5-21)
DHEA-S – 201 ug/dl (102.6-416.3)
FSH – 8.0 miu/ml (1.5-12.4)
LH – 3.0 miu/ml (1.7-8.6)
SHBG – 91.1 nmol/L 16.5-55.9 HIGH
Estrogens, Total – 113 pg/ml (40-115) HIGH
Insulin – 33.9 uiu/ml (2.6-24.9) HIGH

What’s new here is that my free T is back in range (always used to be low), and estrogen has increased, and is almost out of range. SHBG is very high, as usual.

Any advice appreciated… this is confusing.

#39

I also have very higher shbg, 123 at my last tests few weeks back, I also had high oestrodiol was 80 I think and my T was off the charts

#40

What was your DHT?

#41

I’ve never had DHT tested but I think I’ll see about getting it done.

#42

I got some updated test results to get a baseline before I start tinkering with hCG or testosterone.

Free T is better than it’s ever been, but it’s matched by really high E (I’ve had some breast tenderness/sensitivity, which supports the idea that it’s way higher than it should be). But with dramatically better free T, I still feel more or less the same. Any ideas?

SHBG still high, but not as high as it has been in the past.

I think most bodybuilding folks would’ve recommended an aromatase inhibitor in this case, but with all the horror stories here, I’d be scared to do it.

Pregnenolone and progesterone are aromatase inhibitors at certain doses though, so perhaps that’s the way to go.
Testosterone, Serum 690 ng/dL 264-916
Testosterone,Free 17.39 ng/dL 5.00-21.00
% Free Testosterone 2.52 % 1.50-4.20
DHT 65 ng/dl 30-85
LH 6.4 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6
Aldosterone 18.3 ng/dL 0.0-30.0
Progesterone 0.3 ng/mL 0.0-0.5
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 78.8 High nmol/L 16.5-55.9
Estrogens, Total 111 High pg/mL 40-115
#43

Really weird how your hormones going up and down like a jojo. But maybe a lot of us are like that, not many people have had the same amount of tests that you have.

I also noticed your Transforming growth factor beta was quite low, that is one pathway that is downregulated according to Baylor study.

This is a quote from the publication.

  • “However, transforming growth factor beta and bone morphogenic protein signaling, along with several pathways including neuron differentiation, neurogenesis, and axonogenesis, are pathways that are down-regulated. In addition, the actin cytoskeleton organization cluster was down-regulated. Notably, down-regulated pathways exhibit much higher levels of significance.”

  • “However, other studies have found persistent cognitive deficits, which is likely driven by the downregulated pathways that otherwise promote neuron differentiation and nervous cell genesis, such as the transforming growth factor-beta and/or bone morphogenic protein signaling pathways.”

It would be fun if more people would test for those markers and not just the regular hormones. Sadly in Sweden where I live, there is no labs who test exotic markers.

#44

@Cbrandel – good timing with your comment! I just got a new test done. I didn’t test transforming growth factor beta this time, though. I just wanted to get a sense for the T/E ratio and what’s happening with SHBG and LH.
Testosterone, Serum 722 ng/dL 250-1100
Testosterone,Free 75.6 ng/dL 46-224
Testosterone Bioavailable 158.8 ng/dL 110-575
DHT 57 ng/dl 12-65
Estradiol (Ultra-sensitive) 16 pg/mL < OR = 29
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 47 nmol/L 10-50
LH 3.9 mIU/mL 1.5-9.3
FSH 10.2 High mIU/mL 1.6-8.0

What continues to be interesting is bioavailable testosterone is relatively low, while DHT is at the top of the range. It could mean that 5AR is overactive and converts to DHT too quickly.

Some good news is that finally, SHBG is in range, even though it’s still high. I’m pretty confident that this is caused by eating more carbs and more calories generally. I see a lot of people touting paleo/low-carb diets here, and while it could be a solution for some, it was definitely not a good thing for me. Low-carb made it hard to build muscle, and made me lose weight.

Other good news is that estradiol is safely within range. I had been worried that my increased carb intake and strength training would result in more aromatization.

I’m not sure what to make of high FSH. Could be a temporary thing.

#45

Any effects on symptoms @M_C?

#46

I’m feeling a little better than baseline, I’d say. A year of low-stress work and increase calorie intake+exercise has shown results. HIIT bodyweight training has been really great for me. A weekly 24 hour water fast keeps brain fog away. So there is perhaps some correlation between lower SHBG and how I feel.

But the improvements are still so small that I think I’ll need an extra boost to have any chance at recovery. This test has shown that I don’t have a problem with E, so luckily I won’t have to touch any aromatase inhibitors. I’m currently trying BPC-157, and after that I might trial androsterone, if I can find a good source. On the herb side, Cistanche deserticola looks interesting.

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