Blood results so far....(Hypo- i hear you're good at this)

I have just got back some of the blood results. Here they are:

FSH: 2.6 (Range 2-14)
LH: 4.6 (Range 4-14)
Total T: 27.3 (<32)
SHBG: 30.0
Prolactin - fine

Still waiting for others such as the free t, bound t, dht, estrogens, and progesterone. But are these results ok? FSH and LH seem a little low but not out of range. T seems fine at the moment. I’l know more when the other results come back. I think my DHT is on the high side at the mo as hair loss is worse than ever. More importantly do any of these results show signs of hormonal recovery?

Thanks

[quote=“19”]
I have just got back some of the blood results. Here they are:

FSH: 2.6 (Range 2-14)
LH: 4.6 (Range 4-14)
Total T: 27.3 (<32)
SHBG: 30.0
Prolactin - fine

Still waiting for others such as the free t, bound t, dht, estrogens, and progesterone. But are these results ok? FSH and LH seem a little low but not out of range. T seems fine at the moment. I’l know more when the other results come back. I think my DHT is on the high side at the mo as hair loss is worse than ever. More importantly do any of these results show signs of hormonal recovery?

Yr testosterone is almost at top u have nothing to worry about in that department. With such a high testosterone yr SHBG have to be skyhigh not to give u a good amount of free Testosterone too so i doubt that will be a problem. Yr LH is not a problem either. Having low LH with high testosterone indicates yr testicles are working very well. Lets c what the other hormones say when they arrive. Must be good to know ur working properly so far.

May i ask what yr problems are today?

Cheers

Problems i have at the moment are: no libido - never horny
shrunken penis and less full testes
mild erectile dysfunction
no drive/compassion…music is not
pleasing anymore
increased hair loss
brainfog (mild)
loss of acuity in vision

Thats about it. If my hormones come back ok i think my problem is in the allopregnelone department as i have no signs of prostate problems - that i can tell.

What do you think?

Thanks again. I’m glad there is a place like this where we can share our problem. Most people don’t understand how you can be so down and think its all about weakness of character. Anyway off to the cinema…

I’d also like to say I believe dopamine is implicated in our issues, somewhere along the line… I also don’t get the same response from music I once did, and I used to LOVE music (I am a musician). Now, I couldn’t care less about it. Dopamine is definitely involved in these types of feelings…

Is dopamine affected by allopregnelone or is it a seperate issue? Also whats the best way to deal with this problem. I know letsconvenience had some luck with a few things…

Some simple googling turned this up:

jop.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/10/4/266

“Allopregnanolone reduced (by a maximum of 65 to 75%) basal dopamine content in the prefrontal cortex and nucleus accumbens in a dose-dependent manner, but had no effect on dopamine output in the striatum.”

“These results suggest that endogenous neurosteroids may participate in the GABAergic modulation of dopaminergic transmission in the rat cerebral cortex and nucleus accumbens, two brain areas which are important in the regulation of emotional processes.”

In the paradigm of the rat, allopregnanolone actually reduces dopamine (implying that the effect of fin would be to increase dopamine). Obviously, since this study involves rats, no substantial conclusions about human allopregnanolone functions can be drawn.

However, if we want to assume that this is a perfect model, we might be able to conjecture that decreased allopregnanolone does cause an increase in dopamine, which in turn acts upon other mechanisms that work to downregulate dopamine production. Maybe the activity of these downregulatory mechanisms persists even after allopregnanolone returns to normal, thus explaining statis dopamine levels that are lower than originally.

Personally I’m starting to come around to the progesterone cream idea. Better still would be synthetic allopregnanolone.

Keep in mind too that women who are continually cycling experience frequent allopregnanolone deficiency as well (aka PMS), and could maybe serve as a model.

The fin-induced deficency of course is much longer than 5 days/month however, and could maybe lead to more significant effects throughout the brain?

Nevertheless, even if this were the case, and I’ve said this several times before, I would be very hard pressed to advocate a ‘replacement’ solution, like that pursued by letsconvenience. These treat symtoms not causes.

As for the neurotransmitter issue, therefore, whatever the mechanism may be (and we may very well never know), it would seem that a very simple sort of logic might produce results. Knowing there is a state of dysfunction within the brain, and also knowing the cause of that dysfunction (fin-induced decrease in allopregnanolone / increase in progesterone), and also maybe throwing in some intuitively-appealing assumptions (i.e. that it probably required prolonged exposure to this imbalance in order for widespread dysfunction to ultimately take place), I think we come to one simple solution for the problem - reversing the initial imbalance and holding it there for a period of time.

Progesterone cream, obviously, would not be a perfect candidate as we do not need to increase progesterone concentrations.

The only thing that comes to mind really is alcohol, which, in contrast to inhibiting brain 5AR as fin does, actually acts to stimulate it. Alcohol consumption should thus tilt the balance toward lower progesterone and higher allopregnanolone. But alcohol has other effects as well, which may act to complicate this solution.

Ideally, it would seem, you’d want to find a brain 5AR stimulator that has an absolute minimum of peripheral effects. Or maybe progesterone cream would work, and the elevated progesterone would have an insignificant effect, as maybe it was the allopregnanolone deficiency that had the most negative effect?

Quote
These results suggest that endogenous neurosteroids may participate in the GABAergic modulation of dopaminergic transmission in the rat cerebral cortex and nucleus accumbens, two brain areas which are important in the regulation of emotional processes."
Unquote

In the RAT!!!

If you don’t know how to help or understand what is going on then do not attempt to comment with bizzare theories.

troubledfinuser2

He said what was required. He said it from a common sense reality point of view.

19,

You might also wish to have TSH, FreeT3 adn 24 hour cortisol tests

Though not exactly along the lines of my original “reverse the imbalance” argument, I present arguments here that 1) Glutamate/GABA imbalance in favor of glutamate results in neurodegeneration, and 2) Progesterone supplementation reverses effects of said neurodegenertion.

jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/21/6/2015

“A decrease in GABA activity in neuronal cultures or cultured slices obtained from different regions of the CNS can cause an imbalance in synaptic excitation/inhibition and, if sustained, cell death.”

edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/conten … t/28/4/387

“Within the nervous system, the neuroprotective and promyelinating effects of progesterone are promising, not only for preventing but also for reversing age-dependent changes and dysfunctions.”

“Neuroprotective effects of progesterone have been demonstrated in different lesion models, notably in populations of neurons that are particularly sensitive to excitotoxic and ischemic damage. Such vulnerable neurons, which are generally characterized by high metabolic activity and abundant excitatory afferents, include the pyramidal neurons of hippocampus and cerebral cortex, dopaminergic neurons of the midbrain, Purkinje cells of the cerebellum, as well as neurons of the dorsal striatum and the caudate nucleus (93, 94).”

Hypo, I respectfully disagree with your claim that rats are entirely useless as models of human physiology. Of course human studies are superior, but researchers consider rat studies informative because they do in fact share the basic mammalian phenotype with humans (I used to work in a lab with mice, so I have to believe this). Besides, why would they be used if investigators didn’t think their results could provide insight into human physiology? Are they really just interested in learning a whole lot about rats? Just a thought…

Unfortunately, that second article I linked to is only available with subscription. It’s a review article so there’s obviously much more to it than included in the abstract.

Mew, if you think it’d be kosher, I could post it in the studes section.

I would have thought the expert would’ve requested to have your Estradiol levels be taken. But I guess finding out if you have Hypothyroidism is more obvious.

Is there a certain radio/music station that you don’t enjoy? Because the neurotransmitter to the uptake of the inhibitor of the dopamine regulator that penetrates the gaba energizer may be impacted by the radio frequency that’s given off certain radio stations. It creates a shift in the allpregnalone production that causes a deficit in your aromatase enzymes that will create your sympoms of ‘loss of passion/love for music’. This study is being repeated on other dumbasses to confirm.

Your initial hormonal lab work looks wonderful. Go out and play. It will lift the depression you may be going thru.

Jack

Dont want to trash yr theory but when u are down/depressed or just focused on a serious problem its not rare to find decreasing interest in the joys of life in general and i think thats could be what u are experiencing. I have lots of stuff i loved to do wich today dont provide the same satisfaction anymore beacuse they are all stuff wich i can only enjoy if carefree. I know this to be true in me cause experienced this way b4 propecia too.

Finally got my DHT levels back and they are very high.

DHT: 4.5 (<2)

Anyone have any ideas?

The high DHT explains the rapid hair loss i mentioned. Is it possible that a high DHT level since DHT is far more potent than testosterone is competively inbititing the action of testosterone. This kind of makes sense to me. Is that possible?

I’m starting to get the impression that people on this forum are starting to disregard what i’m saying and well i don’t know what to say to that. I suppose all i can say is don’t isolate me further. that would mean alot. believe me my life is struggling to go on at the moment. Giving up is a thought i’ve constantly had to battle. Don’t make things harder for me. please.

I also had a high level of DHT in my last round of bloodwork. However, from what I’ve read, blood levels are not the optimal way to obtain the true value for DHT – instead, a 24hr urine panel is.

There are also metabolites of DHT (Adiol-G … aka androstanediol glucuronide) which can supposedly be measured to help give a clearer indication of DHT & 5AR-activity.

Anyway I myself have also thought about the “high DHT inhibiting T production” theory, as have others on this site (check Questions/Theories & General sections)… truth is we don’t really know.

I suppose if you really wanted to test it yourself, you could try a milder, natural 5AR inhibitors such as Saw Palmetto, Nettle Root and Pygmeum etc, and see what kind of reactin you get… but after Finasteride I don’t know if it’s such a good idea.

Nobody is disregarding what you’re saying or trying to isolate you here. I wanted to reply, but got caught up in other matters for a bit. This place is meant to be a place of support, thought, discussion and scientific fact, but it can start to take over your life if you let it. Hopefully you are doing in your life things besides just reading this website… friends, family, hobbies etc…

I know everyday is a battle… we’re all essentially going through the same thing here with our fight to have docs work with us on this, or get treatment etc… but giving up, at least for me, is not an option… and nor should it be for you. At the very least, we need awareness about this issue, but if we give up then nobody will know about it. Hang in there and stay strong.

Regarding your bloodwork… do you have results for Free/Bioavailable Testosterone, Estradiol (Estrogen) and Thyroid (TSH, Free T3, Free T4)? What about Progesterone?

If you want to get more complete bloodwork done, try treatments and and are living in the US, I would suggest a visit to Dr. Shippen or Dr. Crisler… or keep battling to find an endocrinologist that will work with you on this.

Does anybody know what happened to 19? If he was able to get treatment or not?

I’m new to this forum. I have weird sides from Dut and Propecia, mostly from Dut though. I have minimal ED, but my biggest concern is my blurry vision. Like my vision isn’t as sharp as it used to be, and the veins in my eyes grew a little bit.

This is a really old thread.

If you click on 19’s “PROFILE” button at bottom of his posts, you can search his post history. His most recent posts have been in his treatment thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2087

As for your vision, there are studies showing that when you inhibit 5AR/DHT, it can affect the membranes of the eyyes, leading to decreased visual acuity, blurred vision, sensitivity to light/wind, dry eyes etc: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=659

I’m assuming you are no longer taking either Finasteride or Dutasteride, correct?

definitely

on different forms of mucuna/l-dopa i had more libido, better morningwood and overall more motivation

motivation is completely lacking, im the typical procrastinator

i need to find a way to take dopamine increasing supps, while not making me too jittery and anxious which i get from too much l-dopa

Hi Mew,
Yeah I’m no longer taking either Finasteride or Dutasteride. I’m pretty sure Finasteride didn’t do too much to me, at least not compared to what Dutasteride did. That stuff is super powerful and its weird because everybody responds to all of these drugs differently… even those of us that responded badly, responded in different ways.

Yeah the membrane thing of the eyes is definitely a problem for me. Eyes used to be a bit dry until I got off of Propecia. The eyes have this weird elasticity to them. Like if I touch my eyeball with a dry finger, it kind of sticks to my eye a little bit. Kind of like mucous almost.

Right now as stupid as it sounds, my main concerns are my vision, dry skin/forehead/scalp, as well as hair loss. Also I’m extremely tried a lot of the time. I’m kind of lucky as sexual dysfunction isn’t that bad for me. Like there’s some dysfunction, but nothing that seems to be major.

I’m trying to figure out what to do but I barely have any time to do research on this site as I’m so busy with all of this other random stuff in my life.

Any advice? Should I post one of those “My Story” things on the forum board where I answer a bunch of those questions?