Belikewater's story

In that case I will suggest you to take some foods for testosterone only: Like fats and something that has vitamin A.

Then you can use some suplements with Phosphasterine. And make 16 hours fast. Then go and make some HIIT ecercises, came back to your house do like 5 min edging and then take a cold shower.

And of course if your are supplementing zinc for the anti aromatase function will help you.

Take asparagus, asparagus I think it worked very well.

Greetings

Dont take fast with carbohydrates at the same time!

Littke 3 hours session of edging after a dry fast of 30 hours yesterday. Something new is while you are transforming your testosterone to DHT. You feel less “horny” but you will feel more alpha and clear headed.

Today im feeling very nice but not too horny that is perfect. Yesterday I was too horny because I had a lot of tetosterone but not too much DHT. It happened to me first times I had a lot of testosterone in my body but it was converted to estradiol. So I feel horny but not very sexual. Yeah I know its difficult to understand. xD. Also I had lot of emotions because the high estradiol.

You want to be a sex god? Go for DHT

I’m a little in the dark, what is edging?

Damn, i was about to ask the same question after reading the whole topic !

From google what i find is : “Coming nearly close to climax or ejaculation,then purposefully stopping sexual stimulation in order to delay the same, so that the ultimate climax will be more intense”
Is it that ?

All in all i find the words of belikewater make sense.
I believe in “homeostasis” the body healing itself IF, and only if, you put it in good condition. We ll see…

As i have exactly the same sides (shrunk prostate and, thus sexual sides en weak urine flow, but no brainfog or hormonale crash…) this topic gives me a bit of hope.

Vlad, Belikewater is not cured and this is apparently a post he wrote a bit too soon. He still is around the forum searching to cure himself. Reclaim your hope :slight_smile:

Too bad.
What about this “edging” thing ? I got it right ?

Hello I find this comments come from a very dark soul, im sorry from you.

For the others ones I continued this thread in the natural section with a thread about Sorghum.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10939

But the way the protocol is exactly the same as this. Pump up your test -> pump up your DHT

Sorghum is a 5AR activator so its used for T>DHT.

Greetings

Yes edging is that. I ended up without ejaculating at all. Edging is a way of increase DHT. It works but it has some secondaty effects, because dopamine is created in huge quantities and your dopamine receptors will become downregulated, meaning you will be very unmotivated for the most simple tasks in life, so I dont do that anymore.

What I do now its just taking 5ar activators like phosphatidilserine, Sorghum, creatine, protodioscine, etc…

with those you will have more DHT and all other benefits. Remember that finasteride was a 5ar inhibitors? Who is that doing the opposite is not the simplest, logical form to reverse it? Well add that is the most effective way that I have found.

I just said what you should have specified in your own thread, since claiming to be cured in your case is misleading and can lead people to join an uncertain protocol. As I stated above I do feel the only possible approach for a cure is the one you explained (althought I would add far more things than that and I don’t believe shorgum will help) - However - you are not cured, and If I had a pence for all the times I read of false healings here on PH I would be outrageously rich. Still there persists the mistery of how could you one day state that you are cured and then no, you are not anymore the day after. Pretty pretty strange as pfs is not something that misleads you so easily. I’m just being precise. And you should too.

As you can state from the smile I placed at the end of the last sentence, I was simply joking(as I still believe in a similar protocol), something pretty rare among pfs sufferers, so “very dark soul” is not really appropriate for my personality. If a bit of “dark humor”/“sarcasm” isn’t in your wirings that’s not exactly my problem. I believe if people in here joked a bit more and avoided anti-scientific speaking/informations(but I do understand not everyone knows how to) everything would be easier.

Yes I proclaimed that I was cured and that not true. I will consider myself cured when Im symptoms free for a year without following any protocol.

Anyways it was the excitement of the moment to feel without any symptons suddenly.

I disagree tremendously with you sentence about Sorghum. Can you explain why Sorghum a known 5ar activator, the contrary that inhibited finasteride and caused a lot of hormones to disregulate, its not part of your treatment?

Im not looking in the forums for another treatment, I have followed the same treatment for one year and a hald, focusing more lately on 5ar activators and noticing a big improvement on symptoms, but 5ar activators where part of my protocol since the beggining.

I’m not making a particular accusation to you (just maybe be a bit more cautios). I was just giving an information to another user. I think one or two months symtom free, drug and substance free, is enough for claiming being cured.

On Shorgum, I don’t actually remember how it works precisely. Anyhow, in my approach, evenghought I think increasing testosterone-DHT can help if done naturally (and maybe even unnaturally with shorgum or other substances, but this is a risk, I will explain why), there are far other motivations to have the approach you mentioned, and adding other things to this protocol.
You need to consider:

1- many substances that act on hormones have been tried and generally without results, often with side effects and rebound/withdrawal effects. Shorgum will probably be among them for the sake of statistics lol.
2- Withdrawal effects (even if you can’t perceive them), might delay your natural healing process as the body will have to re-equilibrate itself after withdrawal.
3- The body is immensly complicated. Surely androgens are also immensely important, but they are a milionth (I suppose) of all the substances and add in a billionth(I suppose) of the processes within the body. Finateride was doing a lot of things, not only inhibiting DHT production, so there is really an enormous probability that A LOT of pathways have been altered and are really not recoverable only with the addition of an hormone. Not to consider that if the hormone level is not in harmony in all it’s connected pathways because it’s induced by an exogenous substance, then you will likely induce an endogenous underproduction of that hormone (ie downregulation).
If you wanna get an idea of complicatedness of a cell look here biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1 and that’s one cell among billions throught the body. Not to mention extracelluar environment etc etc. That is, what you see there is only a glimpse of the body. Adding a single substance and hoping for lasting improvements is like hoping for a miracle. On the contrary destruction is really really simple. We know an infinty of substances that can poison you, but really I have a hard time recalling molecules that are CURES for pathologies. The most drugs are for symptom control, and if you are lucky you don’t get perceivable side effects, althought this can be misleading as we saw with finsteride. Some mention they didn’t have side effects while on it.
4- Your imporvements on shorgum might simply be placebo effect, symptom control or both. I can easily pick up a pill of levitra/cialis, and feel far better sexually, but when I stop it, I’m still at the same place. That’s why enthusiasm should be delayed to when you have a normal routine in your life, and shorgum isn’t, I allegedly suppose.
5- There is a possibility however that symptom control might help in a cure however. I make an example: we know(apparently) we have low allopregnanolone levels. And I know that in mice at least, when they are brought in social isolation, their ALLO production drowns while the opposite happens on reintroduction in social/stimulant rich environment. So having a TRT for example, might not directly affect the ALLO production but the fact that it has an energizing effect might simply get you out with friends more easily and through social interaction increase your ALLO production(among the other benefits it has). This is why I suggest hanging out and have a lough pretty often. And this is why I am not all that contrary to the goldstein protocols. This is just an example of course. The cause of our low ALLO probably is Finasteride but those pathways are still active. Social interaction and similar good habits can still produce improvements in the long run and I have the feeling those that are active and happy in their life will probably heal faster. If you boost your “good substances” through good nutrition, sun, exercise, healthy amusement etc, in a stable manner, your healing mechanisms are certainly more active, and this might in my opinion make a difference whether you recover in 1 month, 5 years, 10 years or maybe never. Not to mention there is certainly a sinergy of the above healthy behaviors when they are done altogether. If you play beach volley amusing and loughing with your friends under the sun, after you ate enough and well, and then get back home and have sex with your girlfriend…most probably you will have more gains than in 10 sessions of heavy wheight lifting in a depressing gymset. I passed a similar(I would say half of it) day some time ago, and when I went home my sexual potency was incredible and I had incredible sex, better of what I ever had. This story is insipired by two guys who got cured.
1-One said he healed after starting playing beach volley I recall.
2-The other one healed after he opened a little bar who knows where(at a sunny and smiling coast in brazil maybe, I don’t remember) and left his not so funny job.
This might also explain why there are so different healing stories: I don’t say shorgum will not work, but if it will, it probably is because of it’s secondary behavioral effects like the one that I described, and in my opinion these are much more powerful. If you keep yourself depressed, stay in despair, you reduce the production of “positive anabolic” substances, and increase the production of “negative cathabolic” ones. Also you don’t engage in a healthy life, balancing the equilibrium toward disease rather than healing. If you read science news on a regular basis, you cannot let go unnnoticed that a lot of diseases are actually coming out these years to be in direct correlation with behavioral/nutritional/environmental causes, and that genetics generally counts more as an addon. If you can get sick with these days normal living, how can you expect getting cured from a disease like pfs without boosting your healing abilities. This just to speak in layman’s words as the contrary would require me to list tens/hundreds of examples similar to the one I made above and that I learnt of during these years. My suggestion is, if shorgum gives you good result, once you plan on withdrawing, taper off very very slowly if it is possible.

Still speaking theoretically :slight_smile:

A lot of interesting information.

Still seems Im not explaining myself well or something. Im not taking any 5AR activators just to have DHT. Im taking 5AR activators to counter act what finasteride did (inhibiting 5AR activity). That will mean for example more Allopregnanolone and more DHT, plus a lot of other good things that are a cascade of having 5AR activity good.

Its funny because you seem blind to the benefits of doing the contrary of what finasteride did, and how this approach is the most, LOGICAL, SIMPLE, CHEAP and EFFECTIVE that I have tried or image. All the symptoms got much better not only in grade. I simply went bak in time and felt pre finasteride, that was a big impact, in not there all the time…

Basically you are giving me the reasons with your answer why I shold continue taking 5AR activators.

5AR activators is not to mask the symptoms, is to go directly to the foundation of all our problems, a low 5AR activity.

Same thing, what tells you that recovering 5AR activity temporarily with an activator will recover it permanently? It is the most logical for you. For me it is more logical to force the body to upregulate it by natural means, because while doing so you are forcing all the other pathways in the immensly complicated body to go after it. It’s not only a matter of 5AR. Finasteride was doing other things. Stating that by activating 5AR you are doing the opposite of what was doing finasteride is an oversimplifation. But I’m not going to try to convince you, actually it has never been my intention. On the contrary I’m happy if people try what they want. If someone can find a faster cure for pfs (that would be really a big luck imo) I can’t be more happy.
What it can be stated however is that, from what I read and from what other peoples are saying, recoveries are generally natural, good nutrition etc. I am just proposing a way to speed up this process, as I’m not going to risk my butt on drugs and similars If I am slowly getting well even without taking all the behavioral steps I mentioned. I have read of far more people getting worse on drugs/supplements than people healed by them, and so far no molecule with reproducible effects has been identified as for what I know.
What I believe in a lot is fasting. Apparently, from the unfortunately poor scientific knowledge (but anyhow astounding), and from anecdotal “evidences” from pfs patients who did it, that is a really potent healing method, but might take multiple fasts.

And don’t boil up, we are talking, not fighting.

About fasting, there is also a bit of scientific evidence that more fasts are necessary. Longo found that some days of fasting can regenerate the immune system for example. This happenes when you get back on food, immune cells are “regenerated”(I don’t remember the mechanism). And if I remember correctly it takes 3-4 days to regenerate it by 50 percent. From their supposition it would take more fasts to regenerate it about completely. Also a big statal hospital in Germany is using fasting as we intend it for medical purpouses, with “marvelous” results(textually). I am saying this because it appears to me you did a fast already.

Ok first of all, If you know about other pathways that finnadteride have had a effect please share. What are youing to trest those pathways?

All the common symptoms can be follow to the cause being less 5ar activity or consecuences of that. So I mean like 99% of symptoms can be traced back to low 5AR activity as the cause. Thats why I use all my effort to promovo 5AR activity.

You are right, I dont know if when I stop feeding the 5AR activity, it will stay. My plan is to be feeding 5AR for long as needed and maybe they body adapts to this new enviorement as it did in my opinion when it gad low 5AR activity.

At the placebo effect just LOL. Placebo effect is the excuse if the ignorant a lot of times. Simple phisycal effects in this last months:

No more dry lips suddenly.
Morning erections everyday for 30 days.
Very good sexual enconter and sexual mind.
Random boners throughy the day and good mind pennis connection.
Being able yo enjoy porn like before fibasteride.
Actually being myself exactky like I was 5 years ago for 2 days mentally.
Loosing hair!
Placebo yes…

What is your protocol btw?

If you don’t explain the entity of your feeling better(what I have read so far about your experience was only morning erections, but you know, I read very rapidly in this period) I am autohorized to think placebo. People here lack in recognizing that psychology affects hormones etc and a firm belief can provoke a surge of positive effects that eventually might fade away or might produce stable neural patterns, affecting hormones, neurosteroids, catecholamins etc etc. The same goes for negative psychology. Anyhow, I’m not going to try and convince you again. I had read some serious books to learn about brain etc, I can’t condense all the content in here and I wouldn’t be able to. For instance I do have periods in which I have morning erections, and normally this happens when I am less stressed. No random boners through the day so far however (maybe a just a few times in the past years). So I’m happy for you, and hope you keep doing well. As I said I would be really happy if you and all of us could heal this way. Your’s isn’t a stupid approach. I’m not well informed on shorgum but it’s an interesting approach, maybe one of the best if not the best so far althought as I said I have many doubts it will work. Still believe that a natural approach deals better with the complexity of the body. It has it’s own healing abilities, but I don’t expect to cure if I stay 10+ hours/day in front of a pc within my house honestly(which unfortunately is my obliged routine for now).

You talk about ignorance when talking about placebo. I personally witnessed 3 people in my life who lost all or part of their hair because of acute stress(loss of a relative for example) and never regrown it. Psychology is far more important than many here realize and the most here neglect any implication because that would be like neglecting that finasteride is the cause (in their mind). Unfortunately the two things are stricly interrelated so they are not separable. Your psychological attitude controls what your neurological burst patterns will be in the future.

Psychology(or if you prefear behavioral neurology :wink:) enters in my protocol since you ask. Unfortunately I am stuck with my studies, it’s a hard period for me since I lost many friends for various reasons, and I’m paying the consequences of what pfs did in my life. The protocol is mainly what I already said, but to be more precise:

1-I am struggling to quit smoking(I have already done it some times and I’m getting better. I need to get better at handling big stresses in order to avoid triggering relapses).
2-Exercise. Not sure if it is the best routine and it is also a pain to do it; howvever, even if I do it not to the best I am getting really better. Muscles are growing, energy and virility too, psychological stability also. I ended up finding that parts of my muscules were really inactive and I am trying to reactivate them, with good results. Many muscles were not working in synergy. For example, when I started this new routine I wasn’t able to do 1 single pullup at the bar. Today I tried and I was able to do 3 of them, and I really did focus on other exercises. I am taking the suggested amount of proteins (ie 1,5-2 grams/kg of body mass/day) either through normal nutrition or supplements(vegan supplements from peas or whey protein, it depends). I was indeed TOO low in protein intake before, I don’t have mama cooking for me anymore. I eat foods high in proteins, low in fats and carbs to meet my nutritional requirements as I want to gain muscles/strenght and drop fat. This means fish being the best serving, then you have peas, legumes etc. I try to avoid those foods that are apparently inflammatory, like meats and prefear consuming frozen food over food which is not fresh. This because of the endotoxin theory, the evolution of leaky gut syndrome, stating that inflammation is triggered by entoxins produced by bacteria growing on food which is not fresh. One would believe that by cooking at high temperatures you would kill bacteria. Well actually that’s true, but the molecules they produced are not going to disappear. That’s why I prefear fresh/frozen foods. I retain this “theory” to be believable but honestly there is not a lot of scientfic evidence so I am always a bit skeptical. It makes sense though.
I’m exercising 4 times a week and normally I should run at least 20 minutes at high speed, this means 11-13km/h. This is hard to accomplish unfortunately, it’s mostly a thing of how much motivation you have. But I am happy with the preliminar results, lowered inflammation, bigger/fuller penis(near normalilty I would say) at the end of the session, relaxed feeling, more focus etc. But I am adjusting because it’s too hard to do it at the end of the wheightlifting session. The best would be to exercise under the sun, with a group of friends doing hiit training or similar high intensity training with a lot of high intensity running. This has broad range effects over the body, starting from dopamine to mithocondrial efficiency. Increasing muscle mass, reducing fat, improving heart function to that of an athlete and overall metabolism should finetune androgen/estrogen ratio and many other parameters. So try to become an athelete(possibly involve in agonism) rather than only going to the gym, there really is no comparison to the amount of benefits involved. Some sports I can think of that should be really good are beach volley, beach soccer, surf and other activities that are done on a beach, expecially those that make work the legs. I’m pretty sure you will hardly belive the imporvements in your condition as long as you don’t take it as a medicine but as an amusement.
Keep in mind I exercised for a lot of time before this routine, but I probably wasn’t doing enough and in the good way to get results. It takes time and work. I am not 20 anymore and I have been insulted by a drug, this means to get things back in place there’s hard work to be done, getting in perfect shape first of all.

2- getting out with friends every possible evening. Pretty hard at this moment, I’m left without friends and without the possibility of making lol since I’m stuck studying all day and in the gym. But I’m going to do the possible. I’m getting better at managing everything. This howver would be the most important part of my protocol at least in my case as I feel I’m in need of it. As I said this has to do with the increase in ALLO and many other things. Like exercise, do not think this is going to have immediate STABLE effects althought you will generally feel really better after a good lough with friends. The body takes time to build up. If you want a stable high ALLO production you need to commit to it, it’s only a matter of going out, amuse and feel well after all. Same applies for dopamine production, be competitive, risk taking, but be intelligent in doing so and don’t play all your money on slot machines lol. Same for Serotonin, do whatever it takes to feel well even when things are going wrong. All of this will also improve sleep. This will be hard at the beginning but you will build HABITS (very important concept) out of these behaviors and it will become natural for you. You will get back to normality in time. A neuroscient I read a book of calls this “the upward spiral” as contrary to the “downward spiral”. And I can really suggest this book on depression which explains in a comprehensible manner to the layman why and what needs to be done to enter this “upward spiral” (The Upward Spiral: Using Neuroscience to Reverse the Course of Depression, Alex Corb). Really interesting. All what I learnt comes mostly from books like these, written by supposedly trustable writers.

3- no stimulants, caffeine, drugs, cigarettes. (I’m trying and I get better in it). It’s always a matter of motivation and it has to be trained.

4- I am applying a lot of psychological techniques expecially when I study because when I stopped with fin I was barely able to read a sentence/drive car etc. I’m really better at concentrating right now. Still have some work to do. But perfection is a mirage. No one has it.
At the same time I try to keep up my mood. Life has been pretty harsh under Fin, and I really got in despair and at times I still feel that mood but there’s really no comparison. I’m doing really better right now. This sums up in combating depression/anxiety. I bought divulgative scientific books and studied techniques to conquer all of these problems. I really read a lot of things and summing up all the greatly interesting things I learnt would be impossible. I insist, good HABIT building is of fundamental importance. You should go and read immediately about habits on the internet. All this might not make sense to you at a first glimpse but really this makes a difference between who in life is going to be a failure and who is going to succeed.

5-hang out with girls and have sex the most possible for rehabilitation purpouses. I studied this too to ease the task of pick up. I got some really hot girls in the last years thanks to what I studied and despite pfs, but unfortunately my lack of time ended all in fights and psychological pain. I’m studying biological related engineering and here university is really a 24 h commitment. Anyhow being able to have hot girls with ease, well that eases life, makes you feel better althought once you get in a troubling relationship everything gets harder, so it’s a risk. Still planning to get back on track as I get better at managing all the things I implemented in the protocol.

6-of course having stable shedules, like resting enough and going all days to sleep at the same evening hour is part of the protocol.

7-being good at what you do in life. If you are not good at what you do in life compared to the other workers you’ll be permanently stressed/unhappy and this doesn’t help. So the options are three if this is not the case: or you get better at what you do and try to be one of the best, or you learn to feel well about it anyhow like it is of no importance to you, or you change your job to something you like and makes you feel well(remember the guy who opened the bar).

You get the point, everything is aimed ad overall wellbeing, boosting of healing mechanisms of the body, and might be a longterm commitment depending from where you start. Unfortunately I started from very low since my life wasn’t easy before fin and during Fin it got really shot down. There are simply too many things to deal with and I don’t expect a drug or a supplement to adjust all of this without me working hard on it. The sexual part is quite ok now, I’m not happy enough with it but I’m not going to wait to recover 100% of my sexuality to work and try being happy. Some things I don’t expect to recover honestly, like gynecomastia(real glandular). This is probably not going to recover as it probably underwent fibrosis. At most I can think fasting can get rid of fibrose tissues like these (maybe present also in the prostate?) but that’s more speculation, I have found no serious scientific evidence of this possibility. But anyhow, it’s ok, I can live with it. No one is perfect and life is crude sometimes. It needs to be accepeted eventhought I didn’t want to in the past.

Well yeah all that points makes sense I have also my own protocol without suplements, everything you said is included.
Stress has nothing to do with placebo. The same as random erection, abd the effect of Sorghum has nothing to do with placebo.

Placebo is for idiots.

Stress is stress and I have studied the matter. Psicologhy has relationships with neurotransmissors? Seems you have discovered that esrth is what moves around the sun…

5ar activators has made it functions bilogically and mentally no doubt.

You probably will remove Gyno if you do HIIT two times a week. And if you the mood of picking girls and fucking them you started way ahead of me.

The gyne is not going anywhere unfortunately, it’s glandular gynecomastia that underwent fibrosis, not adipose gynecomastia. After one year from the onset, there is common agreement that there is no way to get it off other than surgery.

The thing of getting out with girls was very well supported by alcohol at the beginning, it was my andrologist/endocrinologist who told me I had to have sex, so I took action as for a prescription medication. I had to use levitra for the task, cialis wasn’t enough, and things got better sexually through time. So you understand I too wasn’t really happy about humiliating myself after a relationship of almost a decade. But in the long run i gave a sh… about it, I got a bit used to it and learnt somehow to deal with the reactions. Risk taking behavior, otherwise I would still be in constant despair most probably. If I don’t recover, at least I lived what I could of life.
I also did theater for a couple of years, it helped me having more control over my behavior. Drug addicts often do theater for neurological/physical rehabilitation.

“placebo is for idiots”, “you discovered earth turning around the sun” ok

Interesting conversation guys. Tab, I’m pretty much in line with your point of view. I think stress a predominant role in this by aggravating all symptoms. Unfortunately this quickly becomes a vicious circle… the worse the symptoms get, and the more stressed out we are, and so on. When stress is down, I feel much better. But as soon as something bothers me, I feel like I lose all capabilities. In such a state of mind, we tend to get on this site, to research any medication or supplement that has worked for someone …

I believe it’s much more complicated. I still want to believe that there is a way out. In my case, I have nocturnal erections almost every night so I know my body is capable of doing so. Arousal is much more difficult to get though… on a good week, I can feel like wanting sex about once, but need porn to get started. Otherwise, I can’t get my head to consider it’s a good thing.

Our efforts should be first and foremost pushed towards living in an environment with the least possible stress. Then, live well, eat well, and let time heal. I also agree with the fasts. I just engaged myself in a 24 hour per week fast… we’ll see how that goes.

As for belikewater, sorghum provided very good results for me too. The best improvement I had in over a year. I keep eating some on a daily basis, but my anxety is through the roof these days, so I’m back to square 1.

Finally, you can’t deny the power of the placebo effect. It’s a proven scientific fact that is not even worth debating! In a case of weird and misunderstood disease like PFS, it can only be even more significant. But who really cares… as long as someone feels better, then good for him!

The real problem (and the scarriest one) up to now, is that recovery rarely “sticks”…

Hopefully we are getting better and better as the years go by and we will eventually heal. Or at least learn to live positively with our conditions.

Cheers.