BEFORE & AFTER story of Clomid Treatment for PFS

Member Stories
#61

I hope Legendary doesn’t mind me jumping in on his thread but I am running a very similar protocol so I figured put it here.

Anyway just a quick update. On my 4th day of 2.5mg letrozole and 25mg clomid at night. Will be upping my clomid to 50mg x2 daily as soon as more arrives.

No noticeable side effects at all. The only thing that is different is that my libido has gone from very low to non existent. I normally can “test myself” about 3 times weekly but atm I have just no inclination to do so and it’s been 4 days roughly. Could be coincidence but I thought I’d share and see what opinions come back like!

#62

Been a few days now of taking 50mgs clomid day and night and 2.5mgs letro nightly!

A couple of observations.

1- Awoke with a boner this a.m. Rare!
2- My legs day at the gym was a bit easier than usual. Usually my hardest workout and I am dead after it but today I had some energy left in the tank.

I have made no other observations either positive nor negative!

#63

Sorry for this update and it’s graphic nature but I’m really optimistic about this now.

Woke up this morning with an erection again. Uncontrollably pulsating. Excuse this next bit but when masturbating I accidentaly shot my load 6ft across the room. This hasn’t happened in probably 5 years. I still didn’t have the greatest sensation or desire but it’s definitely a step in the right direction. :mrgreen:

#64

Shit. Seeing blurry flashes. :open_mouth:

#65

you should read dozens of old threads where no retain able gains have been made by using Clomid.

#66

I don’t want to. I’m committed to at least trying this.

Update…

Awoken with an erection every morning for days now. Never happens so something is going on.
No longer getting flashy, wispy blurrs in my vision.
Feeling very very depressed
Libido = 0

#67

Hi guys,

Time for an update. I got tested again on Saturday to see where things are at, 5-6 weeks without taking anything besides DHEA. There’s a drop in levels overall, but free T is pretty good and DHEA has continued to rise due to supplementation.

Total T: 14 nmol/l [pre-clomid was 7, highest while on clomid 35]
E: 117 pmol
SHBG: 21.6 nmol
Free T: 356 pmol [pre-clomid was 167, highest when on clomid was 1120]
FSH: 2.3 U/L
LH: 3. U/L
DHEA: 9.88 umol/L
Cortisol: 258 nmol/l

Disappointing that LH and FSH have come down, but the weird thing is that I’ve been feeling good overall. This may be due to the decent Free T levels.

Physically - I feel strong and have a lot of energy. Very lean at the moment.

Gyno - completely gone.

Mentally - Even though I’ve had some “breaking bad-level” life issues and have been under huge stress for the past few weeks, I’m far more emotionally stable then when on the meds. I’m happy with cognitive function and memory recall.

There is some low-level anxiety running in the background, but like I say, hasn’t been a good period for me personally or professionally.

Sexual

Can still get erections and overall I’d classify it as “not bad”, but not back to former glory. My biggest concern is still genital shrinkage frankly. Again, it’s not bad at the moment, but the fluctuation in flaccid size and the approx. 20-25% decrease in erection length and girth are a big concern for me. I was well hung before so have come down to an average size, but its still affecting confidence and generating anxiety. That said, if I have warm bath and get him going, I can get him to more or less former glory days. So I’m not fully sure what’s going on there. Any thoughts? This is the biggest concern at the moment.

So yup, it’s disappointing that levels have dropped overall, but I do still feel very good (?). Before the prophets of doom descend, I have to say that I’m grateful I have a treatment that enables me to generate my own testosterone. If my only option was TRT I would be pretty devastated.

I’ll be chatting to my Endo to see what the next step is and what he makes of all this, chat soon

#68

can you elaborate how bad was your gyno? are you sure it was gyno and not the water retention? I think most of us are having water retention. As far as I know once you gyno it is there until you get operation to remove it.

#69

It’s possible it was water retention or something, I don’t know much about gyno, but it did feel like fat. There was significant flab on my breast area and hips, to the extent that my ex girlfriend used to tease that I had bigger tits than her. Now I can’t even grab any tissue on my chest at all, its just skin then muscle. I’m finding it much easier to stay lean in both areas now, even more than I did 6/7 years older which is odd.

#70

Update from my Endo on the results:

Aiming for Total T between 18-25. Main abnormality here is the Estrogen, must get it below 90 as this switches off the pituitary…has recommended restarting just the Letrazole and retesting in 4 weeks

#71

the only way to get rid of pure glandular gyno is surgery,it doesnt go away on its own,chest fat or water retention can go away…

#72

maybe you will have to take clomid for ever if your gyno or water retention has gone completelly but we don’t know long term use side effects of clomid.

#73

Yeah maybe. I’m not sure if I’ll even need Clomid anymore based on the previous Letro results and Endo feedback. It seems that when I get my Estrogen down, my LH rises and everything else kicks into gear. After 3-4 weeks of just Letro my Total T was 36.6 nmol / 1054 ng/dl and free T was 1120 pmol/L / 32.37. So we’ll see what things are like in a month with just letrazole…

#74

Yes your estrogen is back too high again that is probably the thing suppresing eveything.

Now you must ask the question - Where is the estrogen coming from. As far as people getting on top of of e2 with drugs. From what I know not a single sole has been able to stablize. Robocob was the guy that claimed to for a while i spoke to him but in the end his libido was still shitty and he got other problems.

So you really need to answer where is the E coming from rather than just trying to squash it. For me I did a siliva test and my estrone was right at the low end of the range but estriol and estradiol were over range. They say estrogen can come from the fat cells converting androgens.

You should try and measure these things. Maybe it can help point to the root.

The other issue is you need estrogen in your brain and your arteries taking heavy doses of AI could cause nasty sides?

Anyway you have learnt some good lessons with this experiment - I am glad you are testing things out. But now we need to understand your situation better and work out where that estrogen is coming from? Do you have any ideas?

#75

Vincentv- yeah I do have an idea. We are dealing with at least the outward effects of estrogen dominance. Finasteride is PURPOSEFULLY used to destroy progesterone in cells. I’ll post one study below. This can happen upon first application (think of the guy who takes one damn pill) I think the receptor site has been fucked, causing an imbalance at the receptor site in favor of estrogen and decreased progesterone. Progesterone supposedly helps the male body control excess estrogen. Once that protective affect is lost, estrogen runs wild. And think about it…our estrogen doesnt even have to be high, its just not being bakanced by progesterone this our very severe and drastic estogenic state. If there is a cure to this it is a lot more complicated than applying small dabs of progesterone cream to our wrists. Why do I think this? Previous finasteride studies as well as the fact that I have had Eustachian tube dysfunction which has been basically cycling for a year, every 3 weeks like clock work my ear is congested and rings like a fucking pregnant woman; then comes 2-4 days of severe bloating and red and dry face.

#76

And fitting in with the current science, the hormonal pathway of creating 5ar metabolites is also compromised leading to reduced levels

#77

Oh here we go Finnatruth the couch potato arm chair scientist who has tested nothing and makes very conclusive statements about our problem. Are you actually reading the thread you are posting in? Didnt this guy improve massively just by increasing his test and lowering his estrogen to normal somewhat normal levels?

Now his levels are way too high for a young man with low testosterone. Low free t should = low E. But this is not the case. You may come up with imaginative theories about progresterone and the like as you have not tested anything yourself. I have consistenly made my symtroms 90 percent better just by manipulating T and E. I have fixed all my symtoms in fact by manipulating just these two hormones. Both my blood levels and siliva levels show that these 2 hormones are at not the right levels.

Here you go saying that the damage is all thought our bodies and that our receptors are broken etc etc. Blah blah blah. So yes finasteride has turned us into genetic mutants! My opinion is that it has damaged one specific part of our body and all the issues result from that.

“Destroy progesterone in cells” what does that even mean? Finasteride acts a small explosive and goes around blowing up progresterone molecules in the cells?

#78

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23280249/

#79

Uh, I am agreeing with you. I also think it’s affected one area of the body. And yes I would agree that increasing T and lowering E would alleviate symptoms. Here is another studying using finasteride to inhibit progesterone. There are tons of studies like this. And no my friend, not genetic mutants, nothing to do with genetics at all.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17100844/

#80

I did have my progesterone levels tested before starting any treatment and they were low, 0.4 [range 0.4 - 3.6]. I’ll chat to my Endo about it when I see him.

Vincenttv - I have no idea about why my E rises. You’re right to say I need to find the cause of that. My Endo told me the same thing about E living in the fat and instructed me to lose whatever fat I could. But I’m a lean guy as it is, so not sure what else to do.

As an aside, I ordered this product called Manhood and it arrived last week. It’s basically a silky sock to put on your dick. Overshare, but I’m circumcised and apparently this protects the skin from becoming rough and hard, and protects against nerve damage. Surprisingly it has made a big difference (pun intended) with the flaccid shrinkage issue. Could be warmth, holding blood in the shaft or increased sensitivity. And I can immediately feel more sensitivity on the glans and shaft. Maybe worth having a look at.

Also, day 3 of Letra today and I was having spontaneous erections at lunch, so something is afoot.