BEFORE & AFTER story of Clomid Treatment for PFS


#21

legendary, it would be useful to men living in that region of the world if you could post his contact info etc.

We have a section for doctors aware of PFS on the main site (propeciahelp.com/doctors ) and it would be good if we could add one for South Africa. Thanks.


#22

Glad you are feeling better Legendary. Question, has your muscle wastage and penis curvature been corrected by this treatment?


#23

re: Doctor listing - Okay will do, just going to check with him first to see if he’s happy with that. I’m sure he will be.

re: Muscles and curvature -

Muscle mass has certainly improved, but I’m sure it’s largely because I actually have more energy and strength to hit the gym harder now. Before I was too tired / weak to get decent gym sessions in. So it’s not that clomid is growing muscles on its own, but it’s a positive feedback loop i.e. clomid / letrazole = more testosterone = more strength in the gym = more muscle mass = more testosterone etc. Definitely working so far.

Penis curvature - there’s still a kink that wasn’t there before right at the base of the penis. It doesn’t bend left or right, just back. Apparently a curve is advantageous, so not fazed by it. But yeah so far it seems about the same, will let you know if anything changes…


#24

So in simple words you are about to use clomid for 6 months straight, 2 weeks on and 2 off?
plus anti-aromatase + dhea?

how is testicle size till today?? Any increase?


#25

Hi legendary,

Can you drink alcohol while you are on that treatment ?


#26

Hi there, quick update / answers:

Yes the plan was to use Clomid for 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, with letrazole every day and the daily DHEA supps, for six months.

I had a rough couple weeks on the Clomid that timed with a challenging work and relationship stretch. I was feeling highly emotional which is out of character, so I asked my doctor if I should reduce the dose. He instructed me to change to one week on Clomid, three weeks off. So that’s what I’m doing now. I’m in the third off week and feel excellent overall.

The Clomid weeks are definitely rough at 100mg, but the off weeks are excellent. Overall: energy is good, muscle mass good, body fat low, sexual energy good. My main concern at the moment is that mood is fairly erratic, but again there are some work and personal issues going on that weren’t present before I started the protocol. But I do think Clomid at that 100mg can play with your emotions, especially if you’re under pressure. So take it easy on the “on” weeks.

Re: testicles - my balls are enormous, definite increase in mass.

Re: Alcohol, I would seriously advise against alcohol on the Clomid weeks. I did it and they really didn’t go well together, felt dreadful. And I’d limit intake on the off weeks as well…


#27

I took a letrozole tablet last night which made my libido shoot up.


#28

Man i experienced floaters (which won’t go away) from a single 50mg clomid pill
and so i switched to this crap nolvadex 20 mg /day
and planning to take it for as long as i see something positive happening to my testicles

libido for me is not an issue
issue is the diminishing testicles
ffs

maybe should add in some hcg?? or does clomd/nolva cover?

many swear by clomid for resetting their gnrh as i have been reading
your doctor seems pretty decent


#29

other thing i have to say is that letrozole for me was too strong and it made my prostate hurt a lot
too much as a matter of fact
so i switched to using 3 months of arimidex one pill per day can’t remember dose its 2 years ago
no changes what so ever in anything. even testosterone levels stayed the same
its like it didn’t affect me at all…
and that crap was expensive too 125 euros for 1 month supply
why do they make those drugs so expensive
never got the point

happy that you feel so good on clomid man
and ball enormous thing!!!
keeping fingers crossed for you and for all the rest of us in here
this thing is been tormenting some of us for a decade now and still doesn’t abate


#30

Nice,

Thanks for sharing your protocol. Glad to hear you’re feeling better!


#31

Congratulations Legendary!! Be sure to keep us posted on how you’re feeling with your protocol.


#32

Hi all,

Just a quick update: I decided to do a hormonal profile again last week.

To recap the protocol so far, it’s been 2 weeks “on” (Clomid, Letrazole, DHEA), 2 weeks “off” (just Letrazole), 1 week “on” (dropped to one week due to some Clomid side effects) and then 3 weeks “off”. I waited 48 hours after the third off week without taking anything, then did my hormonal profile.

My testosterone is through the roof, especially considering its after three weeks with no Clomid whatsoever. It’s even higher than my levels were after being on Clomid for three weeks straight last year (see previous posts). My Endo is on holiday so I haven’t gotten his opinion yet, but I’m hoping that this indicates that my pituitary is starting to come to the party. Clearly my balls are still capable of producing testosterone. I had naturally high (off upper end of range) testosterone levels before I started taking Propecia and became hypogonadal, so again, I’m hoping this indicates a return to form. Is certainly promising results.

In terms of how I’ve been feeling: just finished the Clomid on week that followed after these results. Emotional sides of Clomid have been much less this past week, but it is a factor. Energy levels are good, muscle mass good, erections are strong, still not quite back to pre PFS but the closest I’ve been since those days. Have noticed some irratibility which may be due to the incredible hulk levels of T. Otherwise all good.

Will update again when I hear from my Endo…

Estrogen 97 pmol/L Ref: 40-161
Total T 36.6 nmol/L >12 is normal
SHBG 19.7 nmol/L Ref: 11.9-55.8
Free T 1120 pmol/L (“High”) Ref: 180-739
FSH 8.2 U/L
LH 13 U/L
Cortisol 348 nmol/L
DHEA 8.22 umol/L


#33

Great numbers. How about your libido? Also, did you ever have sleep issues during or after using Fin.? If so, how is your sleep now?

Thanks and keep us posted.


#34

Legendary, you legend! I want to earnestly thank you for coming back and giving us this info. Everything about your protocol sounds logical and fits to what I have read over the years. I’m really happy for you. You didn’t have to come back and give us this detailed account as it seems you are very near to a stage where you can get on with your life so for this I salute you sir.

GREAT STUFF :mrgreen:


#35

How is the genital numbness?


#36

Libidio: It’s strong. Haven’t had sex in ages because I was afraid of no-show issues, but feel ready to get back on the market now. I’m definitely up for it.

Genital numbness: pre-clomid it was 90% of the time, dead, lifeless, cold, numb, shrivelled. Now for the most part its normal. Have even had moments where he hangs like the old days. I’m still not 100% happy with where he is in his flaccid state, but it’s improving and a few months of good homonal levels should make a difference. I’ve only had good T levels for relatively short bursts of time, considering how long I was on Fin for.

Sleep: Have never been the greatest sleeper so its hard to tell if that was fin related or not. I’m definitely not sleeping well at the moment though. I think my T levels are probably too high and may be keeping me “wired”, but there are also specific life concerns that have been keeping me awake. So it’s a bit of both really. High T is a quality problem to have, so I’ll take it for now. I also think it makes a difference that it’s endogenuous testosterone i.e. my body is making it, I’m not injecting it or something.

And it’s a pleasure for keeping the thread updated, feels good to pass on good news…


#37

Legendary please stay around for a while even after you have defeated this. I self medicated with clomid a while back and my balls got bigger and loads increased but sex drive was the same. I probably needed and AI and also I needed longer. I plan on copying your regimen.

Before I used clomid my levels were at 10nmol/L and after they were at 17nmol/l using 25mgs clomid EOD. They have since dropped to 13nmol/L and have been the same for the last 3 tests with no medication.

As I say I intend to copy your method and then pulse my LH and FSH with clomid and letrozone for a week each month after the 3 week heavy clomid phase. When I was using clomid I felt no discomfort using it. I did have another attempt quite recently of 25mgs daily and my libido dropped after several days from minimal libido to zero libido so I stopped. Stupid really. I should have known why this happened and next time I will log my efforts. I have a labs test I can take when I like that my endo gave me so what I might do is do the 50mg clomid day and night for 3 weeks with letro and then go on to pulsing the system once a month for 2 months and then a month later I will get my labs tested. I can’t find a doctor that will treat me cos I’m at 13nmol/L which is within range.

I am currently weight lifting again. Compound lifts of 22 sets 3 x weekly so I will do this with your protocol. I was going to try test as I am desperate but I would obviously much rather stimulate my own production. Was it 6 months your endo thought you would need to get your system running again?

Many thanks again pal :slight_smile:


#38

Hi Deadballs: Sounds good to me i.e. starting with the 3 week on clomid & letrazole, then one off, just letrazole…then from there 1 on, three off. Remember it’s Letrazole daily throughout. I think taking an AI will make a big difference, since your E probably spiked up last time without it and that would cancel out results of increased T.

Obviously if there’s any way you can find an Endo I’d say do that, but I know the UK is pretty conservative in this area. My pre-clomid T levels were about the same as yours and we’re the same age. My Endo said exactly what we suspect: that those borderline levels are “in range” if you’re an 80 year old man, but textbook secondary hypogonadism if you’re an otherwise healthy 35 year old. My Endo is on holiday but I’m going to ask him if he’s open to remote consulting with you and some other guys who’ve asked.

Yeah he suggested a 6 month protocol and weening off from there with the intention of your own system taking over. I haven’t heard his feedback to my latest results yet though, they’re way beyond expectations so might change things, I don’t think I need as much Clomid anymore.

After three months recheck your labs to see where you’re at (after the third off week and then another 48 hours without taking anything at all).

Interesting that you took dutasteride. I strongly suspect that while fin is evil, it was when I started including dut into the mix that the wheels really came off…stuff is bad news.

ps - what are your pre-clomid LH and FSH levels? Critical to know this…definitely do Total T, Free T, LH and FSH, SHBG and Estrogen before starting…


#39

Legendary, how apt lol! Dude you don’t know how much you kindness means to me. Sincerely thank you so much for asking your Endo for the consult and staying around. Reading your post sincerely brought tears to my eyes. Thank you :stuck_out_tongue:

My last labs from this January were as follows

BONE DENSITY REPORT
BMD (g/cm2) T Score Z Score Classification
AP Spine L1,L2 1.016 -0.3 -0.3 Normal
Femoral Neck (left) 0.691 -1.8 -1.4 Osteopenic
Femoral Neck (right) 0.664 -2.0 -1.6 Osteopenic

Seman analysis normal apart from the sample was viscous! Lovely!

Bloods- 18/01/13 09:46AM

FSH - 2.6 iu/L 1.3-19.3

LH - 5.0 iu/L 1.2-8.6

Progesterone 0.9nmol/L

SHBG 29 nmol/L 10-50

Testosterone 13nmol/L 10-27.6

Free Test 0.275nmol/L

TSH 1.4mu/L 0.34-5.6

FT4 12.3 pmol/L 7.5-21

Glucose 4.6mmol/L 4.0-6.0

From my understanding the osteopenia could contraindicate the use of an AI. However, as long as my e2 does not go too low it should be OK! It’s a risk I’m willing to take! I have a new Dr., she is really nice and I’m pretty sure she doesn’t think I’m mental. She may be persuaded into letting me have labs tested every month or so. I wont push it and ask her to prescribe the letrazole and clomid because that would be asking her to prescribe stuff she knows nothing about and I wouldn’t expect that but the labs I reckon she would let me have and I’ll tell her the protocol I’m going to run, that I’m going to treat myself with or without her help. I’ll tell her about you and that you are the same age, took the same drug, have the same labs roughly and feel the same way and I am following your endo’s protocol that seems to be working!

Man for the first time I feel a sense of hope and excitement. THANK YOU


#40

Again improvements by blocking inhibiting estrogen production. Sorry but there is a 98percent chance you will go back to square one within a month or 2 of quiting the drugs. But you have learnt a valuable lesson. That your hormones do indeed work not like what some of the crazy theories around here are stating