Do you think that you came down with this before or after PFS? Is it possible that you got lyme disease around the time that you eat the plastic ?
was the rash on your stomach the bullseye round circular rash that is common in people that get infected with lyme disease?
I have not read much about lyme disease but if I remember correctly the red rashes come shortly after infection usually right?
The biggest thing with this is that it’s hard to believe the endocrine system is not related seeing that all of our problems started after inhibiting an endocrine enzyme. I think that we have over looked what else 5ar does and how neurosteriod imbalences can effect 5ar in the brain.
Not sure if I have lyme disease. Some drs would say yes based on my westernblot and cd57 tests others would say no.
I am also not sure if lyme would raise eosiniphils.
When I stress my body eating plastic and then doing an xray why my body was in such a fucked up state I believe that just allowed whatever infection was in my body to progress to another level. Look at this post. solvepfs.com/viewtopic.php?f … ing#p30468
He reports taking .25 mg of fin and then getting the problems I experienced after my plastic/xray event. Total anhedona, headache, loss of instinct to breath, waking up not breathing. My stools also turned yellow around this time.
The rash looked more like a virus, perhaps herpies.But it left a scar which I still have, I do not think this is normal for herpies. I have never had such a think before except maybe chicken pox which can leave a scar.
I do not know what infection or where. But I know I have all the signs, my tonsil pillars are blood red, this is a sign of chronic immune system engagement, this in itself will make you feel sickly.
I thought perhaps there was fungus in the sinus due to sinus pain but have ruled this out. I now think that the mucosal cells are infected. I wanted to rule out fungal infections. Well remember there were some threads here where people recovered on antibiotics. In fact there are quite a number of them…
The lyme disease thing is confusing. Maybe go to three doctors and push them all for a yes or no answer? They should at least be able to tell you if they think lyme disease would raise eosiniphilis or not.
Maybe consider trying to see doctors in the US over getting more of a straight forward answer on the lyme?
It’s strange that you got worse after all this time. No chance that you are taking any 5ar inhibitors in any of your supplements or anything?
With this many symptoms it’s hard to believe that you don’t have an infection.
Did you have the opportunity to show a doctor your rash while it was on your stomach ?or did you take a picture of it and show to a doctor later? Have you been tested for herpies?
Maybe try a few cycles of antibiotics? even if you have to lie to a doctor to get them why not… not sure how it works their but in the US you can go to several different doctors with most health insurance and lie if you need to. You could always say that you think your girlfriend gave you a bacterial STTD and say you are having all of that STTD’s symptoms and that you need antibiotics. Take them. wait a month and go to another doctor and do the same thing.
I would also consider a fast. Maybe the extra energy your body has from not digesting food can help clear the infection if you have one.
I got worse every year since i crashed on fin. ANd I guess that is because my eosinphils are still high.
I am not taking any 5ar inhibitors.
I think I did show a dr at that time, they didnt say much. I think most people are infected with herpes so in itself I do not think it is an issue.
I plan to take antibiotics to treat mycoplasma and chlamydia pneumoniae. I did take doxy 5 years ago and remember it was like a train hit me.I got very sick which is not normal. Some may say that could be due to die off. Hard to say.
Almost any infection can cause high eosiniphils and IgE, this has been my big problem.
Hormones can have a big impact on our immune system so possibly a hormonal change could lead to a once controlled pathogen getting out of hand. Then due to the hormonal dysfunction our body can not clear it leading to a never ending chronic infection. With that being said many have fooled around with hormones here without much long term relief.
Why about 50% of us have elivated ige. I have tried to work out what the IgE is attacking and have not found the answer. I am now considering if it could be an intracellular bacteria, such as chlamydia pnumonia or a mycoplasma.
Cytokines released by immunological cells during viral infections or cancer therapy produce symptoms of sickness behavior, typically including decreased appetite, anorexia, fatigue and sleep disturbances, retardation of motor activity, reduced interest to physical and social environments, loss of libido, impaired cognitive abilities, dysphoria, anhedonia, and depressed mood (4).
Crimson crescents are one way to measure immune system activation in a set of people. Mine are shining bright red.
Did standard antibody testing for chlamydia pneumonia and mycoplasma pneumonia, both results came back with not detected.
So the only chronic infection tests which showed something was low cd57 lyme IGM antibodies ospc,p41 osp17.
I am on doxycyclin now. So far my cat piss body odor which started after crashing has mostly gone and the back acne seems to be clearing up. Hard to say if i feel worse or better in general.
I took doxycyclin for acne for about a year straight before PFS. It was always extremely effective for acne. Maybe you are on to something with the infection theory. If it’s the case you would think antibiotics would clear it up.
It could also be that the lack of certain neurosteriods make our bodies more sensitive to just about everything
Most people feel fine on fin, even most of us here felt fine till we crashed. Fin loweres nerosteroids and other things, if that in itself made people feel terrible almost everyone who took fin would suddenly feel terrible. This is not the case.
The main thing I am worried about is if fin set of some reaction in the body which subsequently allowed an infection in us to thrive. I do not think there is conclusive proof of this.
If I do have lyme which is hard to say, I suspect I had it before i ook fin. 2 years before fin when I overworked I started waking with nausea for a while. It could never be explained. I also felt some anxiety which I guess when you are sick. It went away when I changed my work and I felt fine. But perhaps something was lingering in the background waiting to strike.
But I can not explain my high eosinihils and gE which havebeen over range since the crash. I had blood tests from 2 years before fin and they were fine. Ihave no idea why there are eosinphils in my sinus mucosa too without obvious infection. We know 5ar is found in the spine could taking fin allow n infection to make its way into the brain? Causing a sudden crash? No idea.
I think i will never feel well till my crimson crescents are gone, my pharynx is clear and my eosiniphils are normal. But how to do this?
Some say doxy is not that strong for lyme. I will increase dose soon and start clarithromycin.
I believe the loss of libido in my case is directly related to cytokine levels and infection toxins.
Having before and after lab work that shows elevated eosinihils and gE levels seems pretty significant. You mentioned 5ar in the spine. There is a big focus on 5ar in the CNS over on the ray peat forum. Specifically the possibility that our altered hormones/neurosteriod levels keep 5ar1 lower than it should be.
I’m wondering if maybe certain 5ar reduced nerosteriods have anti infection type properties in our bodies and that maybe now that we are low in them our bodies can no longer combat infections properly.
It’s established that 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) which is a metabolite of progesterone through the action of the enzyme 5a-Reductase is an agonist of the GABA receptor and possess a number of properties including anti-estrogenic, anti-prolactin, sedative, anxyolitic, anti-depressant, neuprotective, anti-aging, pro-metabolic, pro-thyroid, and anti-proliferative.
I have personally got positive results from taking 5a-DHP as well have others. Thinking along the lines of being low in 5ar reduced metabolites such as 5a-DHP, we have to wonder how many other 5a reduced metabolites are we low in and how they would effect us. Recently I found out that there are 5ar reduced metabolites of Cortisol that have anti Inflmmatory and anti stress properties in the body. Who knows maybe we our low in these as well.
As far as the logic behind 5ar reduced neurosteriods not being the explanation or at least a big piece of the puzzle because not everyone gets sick after taking a DHT inhibitor goes I’m not sure that I can agree. This is because I am not suggesting that 5ar reduced steroids are required for us to function period. Im saying that they are required for our bodies to react to stress, inflammation and infections normally. It’s very possible that everyone who does take a DHT inhibitor ends up low in these certain 5ar reduced metabolites but only a select few had issues going on in our bodies that require them to be present in larger amounts.
In your case with the possibility of you having lyme disease before probable ending up deficient in certain 5ar reduced metabolites would be a perfect example. We should try to get our hands on a list of all known 5ar reduced metabolites and get tested for them. Also trying to find a possible connection with a specific 5ar reduced metabolite and fighting infections is probable a good idea.
This is deff the line of thinking I have been on lately. The only thing studies (such as the one you posted in 2013) have been able to find in PFS groups is altered neurosteriod levels (other than the 2017 PFS neurosteriod study also discovering issues with the pudental nerve). So it seems like the most logical path to follow at this time.
I always figured well they are just neurosteriods so how important could they be. But the way I figure it if they are not important than why would our endocrine system create them. How many functions take place in the body just because and not for a purpose. Not many if any.
Yeah there are many here who took fin many times on and off without problems then one day they started to crash. So they felt ok even on fin with low hormones and neurosteroids but one day something happened. What was it? Some kind of secondary infection? If it was just low neurosteroids alone people would crash after the first pill or so. So it seems like something secondary.
well this is mostly guess work but i would have to guess that its not an exact science and that not only would you need to already have an infection and or inflammation that your body is trying to fight off but that you would need to end with low enough neurosteriods that lead to the failure to properly address the infection or inflammation. For some guys getting certain neurosteriods down low enough may require more than one run on a DHT inhibitor while for other guys it would only take one run or maybe for some guys they could stay on it for years and still have enough of the 5ar reduced metabolites to function normally.
Then of course you would need the infection of some kind as well. So following this logic it would take a perfect storm all the stars lined up type of deal which would explain why most people who take these drugs are fine
I just don’t see any other way taking a drug that alters hormones on the basic level or on the neurosteriod level could lead to your body not being able to fight off an infection. but who knows. Im looking forward to more studies
If you read about how others get sick with mystery illness it usually comes down to, exess stress, surgery, car crash, taking steroids, vaccinations, back injury,pregnancy etc. This can cause them to fall into a situation where their body can not clear an infection. I am going to say this is more likely the case with fin, but we do not know, fin could have changed something allowing this to happen.
As for my infection, I do not even know what infection I have. Perhaps lyme, also have blastocystis, citrobacter in the stool. Not sure if this explains the eosiniphils, IgE, not sure if lyme does too. So what does?
This guy never took fin or similar but has symptoms like many report here. What disease does he have? He is only young too. I think about 20. He tested weakly positive for lyme.
Have you tried cold or heat treatment like they do for lyme? youtube.com/watch?v=BrJuziabR0o
I recently did cryotherapy and sauna and I could barely handle 2 minutes in there, I should have done more experimental treatments for fatigue and detox when I first got pfs because as the years went by I became too weak, now I can’t even properly do a fast to reap its benefits.
