AR upregulated in the Brain, and PBMT as a treatment

Hi everyone, I’m sure everyone is quite aware of the AR upregulation theory. I think this is undoubtedly the case. AR upregulation can explain A LOT. This study found low levels of key neurosteroids in the CSF of men with PFS, the androgen receptor decreases expression of the enzymes which are responsible for their synthesis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28408350/

‘Indeed, decreased levels of pregnenolone, progesterone and its metabolite (i.e., dihydroprogesterone), dihydrotestosterone and 17beta-estradiol and increased levels of dehydroepiandrosterone, testosterone and 5alpha-androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol were observed in CSF of PFS patients.’

Overexpressed AR can explain low progesterone it negatively regulates the enzyme responsible for progesterone synthesis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9432137/

Overexpressed AR can explain low Pregnenolone it reduces expression of StAR https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/145/3/1269/2878129

Overexpressed AR can account for low DHT and high T in CSF it negatively regulates 5ar1 expression an isoenzyme found abundantly in the Brain https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10635616_Differential_regulation_of_steroid_5alpha-reductase_isozymes_expression_by_androgens_in_the_adult_rat_brain

Now if it is the case that an upregulated AR is the cause of PFS why is it that men generally get worse when we take something which decreases the AR? I think the reason is that when you ingest something to lower the AR it increases the activity of 5ar in the tissues that substances reaches and a result the increased 5ar activity causes an increase in DHT which interacts with the AR where it is high thus you get a worsening of symptoms. It goes something like this:

ingest substance to lower AR---->increase 5ar, increase DHT---->DHT interacts with AR where it is high---->worsening of symptoms.

This explains why when you take a substance to lower the AR some symptoms can improve others get worse. I think predominately the problem with severe PFS is high levels of the AR in the Brain this would mean taking something to lower the AR is a bad idea and would make the situation dramatically worse as one of the last places things you ingest end up is the Brain because of the blood brain barrier (BBB). So the situation when taking something to lower the AR looks something more like this:

Ingest substance to lower AR----->substance accumulates in body (less so in brain)----->5ar, and DHT increase peripherally------> DHT interacts with high levels of the AR in brain-----> Dramatic worsening of symptoms.

This would mean that ingesting something to treat PFS should be scrapped for the majority of us, especially bad cases (such as myself). What i’ve some to realise is that you want a treatment which targets the brain specifically and nowhere else, i think I have found that treatment it is called low level laser therapy (lllt) or Photobiomodulation therapy (pbmt). I read about it in a book called ‘The Brain’s way of Healing’ by Dr Norman Doidge .
PBMT has a long history of use and has been found to be very effective in improving cellular health. I wont go to far into the specifics of how it works exactly but I will post some links. The short of it is it works by increasing ATP synthesis in mitochondria, it also works by hormesis, there are multiple mechanisms of action some known, some not.


I purchased a couple of PBMT devices from a company called vielight. The use of these products has helped me dramatically in terms of cognitive function, depression, sexual function and so on. I also have been seeing a Dr in Sydney Australia (near where i live ) who practices the therapy and it has been very beneficial.

I will also add that I am not a mild case, from 2015-2019 I was in and out of psychiatric hospitals constantly as a result of having the condition, I have lost teeth my dental health has deteriorated, I have experienced extreme pain in my genitals and prostate on and off during that time as well as extreme depression and anhedonia. The PBMT has all helped dramatically with those symptoms as well as some lifestyle changes. Don’t let anyone tell you severe cases can’t improve, it’s not true.

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really?does anyone agree with his point?

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nope. blind speculation. Overexpressed AR would make you hypersexual the least.

’ the ratio of AR positive stromal cells (%) and serum T was 2-fold higher in patients than in controls (P = 0.001). Similarly, the ratio of AR positive stromal cells (%) and serum free T was 2-fold higher in patients than in controls (P = 0.005).’

‘A group of Italian researchers gave finasteride to rats and noticed that the number of androgen receptors in their brains went up. Moreover, the effects persisted long after the drug had been discontinued.…[T]hey then called in men with PFS, took skin from the penis and found that the density of androgen receptors in men with PFS was about twice that of those without. Now, remember the idea of the testosterone bell curve and damping effects (little testosterone, little growth, more testosterone, more growth, even more testosterone, reduced growth)? I think this is what we are seeing here. With a greater concentration of receptors, the organ becomes more sensitive to testosterone and at a certain point, paradoxically, that sensitivity may shut down.’ - Charles J. Ryan, MD, Distinguished Professor of Clinical Medicine and Urology

As this guy Dr Ryan points out there’s a bell curve after a certain point higher testosterone or higher AR activity has the opposite effect, I think it’s because the AR decreases 5ar activity after a certain point so cells are starved of DHT it would be usually getting from 5ar activity within the cell. @slick1

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Who’s the doctor?

Dr Weixing Yan, are you in Aus? There’s also Dr Roberta Chow phd in castle Hill who’s meant to be good

Yep. I’m in Victoria. Sorry to say but the whole thing sounds like quackery. Really glad it’s helped you though. I fail to see how light incident on the surface of the skin would affect AR in the brain.

On the surface it does, but it isn’t there’s a tremendous amount of research behind it. look at some of the links i posted earlier.

low level laser therapy? no thanks man

that stuff inhibits the 5AR as well

i was thinking about using it for hair loss but im not touching it

Very cool find! Thanks so much! I did a very quick search and found information about this therapy on Boston University’s website. So appears legit but I haven’t done much research on it at all. Will do in time.

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/neurorehabilitationlab/549-2/

They apparently use it to treat war veterans with TBI (traumatic brain injury). Might be worth checking out for those of us in the United States. The link has a long list of research articles as well.

Thanks again!

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WTF, really? That seriously surprises me.

@Bloom

Please elaborate on your use of the PBMT devices.

  • When did you start?
  • Which exact device?
  • How long per day/week?
  • Over what time frame did you see improvements?
  • What exact improvements did you see/feel?
  • Did you notice any adverse effects?
  • In all honesty, could these positive effects you’ve experienced also be attributed to other changes in your lifestyle or just mere time?

This is all very valuable information to all of us in case this indeed really helps.

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Ah no it doesn’t, it can be used to treat hair loss but that doesn’t mean it it inhibits 5ar. The mechanism for treating hair loss is not well known, may have something to do with lowering inflammation.

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That’s right it’s been used to treat TBI, read ‘The Brains way of Healing itself’ by Dr Norman Doidge there’s a fantastic section on PBMT how it works, and a few very impressive case studies.

I started maybe a year ago. I purchased a vielight alpha, then I purchased a vielight x plus, both are designed for use on the Brain. I started using it twice a week for perhaps a month, then worked up to using it three times a week (over a period of two months), now I use both devices every second day. ‘Less is more’ when it comes to PBMT periods of rest a crucial. Improvement of certain symptoms depends on where I placed the device (xplus), on the top of my head i notice a great improvement in mood. Back of the head can improve libido. It helped my sleep, mood, anxiety, libido, more feeling in my genitals. I am a much calmer no longer constantly in fight or flight. If i used the device too much I would get a temporary worsening of symptoms which was short lived, but ultimately I would recover better than I was. You can definitely overdo it. I am not 100 percent, but I am a lot, A LOT better.
I was deteriorating or just keeping my head above the water before this treatment despite all my lifestyle changes. So I put down my improvement 100 percent to this therapy. I’ll add that I have been seeing a practitioner who specialises in the therapy and the laser devices they use are much more powerful than home devices and can penetrate deeper into tissues. The trouble that I am finding is knowing which areas of the Brain to target, so there is a bit of trial and error I am working still with my Dr. I had a SPECT scan of my Brain which shows blood flow, I have low blood flow to large areas of my Brain which I believe to be areas where the AR is high.

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Do you know what areas specifically?

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Yes. from my report ‘Focal hypoperfusion in the medial aspect of the left cerebellar hemisphere, left lateral occipital and anteromesial right temporal lobe and mildly in the left anterior temporal pole. Perfusion in the thalami and basal ganglia is less than expected with greater reduction in perfusion in the left thalamus’ ‘an active inflammatory process is not excluded’.

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Does the doctor know you have PFS?

My Dr wrote the referral he doesn’t know what to make of post-finasteride syndrome, the dr who read my scan just interpreted the results, she said the low blood flow could be due to some underlying neuroinflammatory condition.

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Fuck brother. That’s a lot of regions.

I tried to find if any of those areas are particularly rich in AR but not much found.

Do you by any chance have visual snow? I see areas that are affected in your case are visual, memory, hormone- and mood regulation centers.

Fin is linked to neuroinflammation. Look at this picture.

Source for picture. Really good summary on 5ARI.

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