AR agonists

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#1

Hi guys. I’ve never taken finasteride but found your forum while researching it, so thank you very much for the heads up.

I had a “system crash” about a year ago, however, which left me with no sex drive, semi-impotent, etc. I went through a couple of docs who told me to get lost and it was all in my head before I found a guy who put me on a steroid cycle in an effort to reset the system. I took 250mg/wk of Sustanon injections for 8 weeks, followed by HCG and clomid, and I’m much better off than I was. Maybe it was the drugs, maybe it was just time, but I hope this might help someone. Please note that hormonal imbalances of any kind, not just DHT insufficiency, can cause loss of sex drive, so please check your estrogen levels as well as T and DHT… although I’m sure you already know this.

My question is this: I’m going to return to testosterone replacement therapy, and am looking for a safe way to reign in excessive DHT conversion without using a 5a reductase inhibitor. Is there an AR agonist which bonds with greater affinity to the AR than DHT, much like tamoxifen does with estrogen? I’m thinking of DHT derivitaves such as Oxandrolone, etc, but appreciate any suggestions.

Also, is Dutasteride, saw palmetto, etc is just as bad as Finasteride? Are you guys against basically any 5a or 5b reductase inhibitors?

#2

You guys might want to ask your docs about Proviron (aka mesterolone) too. I don’t have any personal experience with it, but google it and see what you think.

#3

Hi Eddie,

Dutasteride inhibits up to 98% of serum DHT as it inhibits both 5AR1 AND 5AR2… and since 5AR1 is found predominantly in the brain, nobody really knows what the longterm impacts of such inhibition may be (at least with Finasteride it was based off a biological model of 5AR2 deficiency – aka, pseudohermaphrodites). That, plus the fact DUT has a much longer half life (ie weeks/months) compared to Finasteride (hours) means if you have problems with the drug, it will still be in your system for a long time. Thus it is not recommended as it is still very “experimental” and risky.

Saw Palmetto as you know is a natural herb, it operates in a different way than Finasteride… from what I understand it prevents DHT from binding to AR receptors, but does not reduce serum DHT. Nonetheless you may experience similar side effects as with Fin, albeit likely nowhere near as bad. There is one member on this forum who took SP extract and has found he has had lasting side effects from doing so, but this must be extremely rare. But basically, anything that affects DHT, wether natural or pharmaceutical in nature, has the potential to create problems and side effects.

As for Proviron (synthetic DHT), it has been mentioned here before. Unfortunately without real-world use and feedback, nobody really knows what effect it may have – although from what I’ve read, taking exogeneous DHT may have a negative effect on the HTPA by lowering T production… but don’t quote me on that.

As for AR agonists, your guess is as good as mine.

What was the reason behind your “crash”, since it wasn’t from Finasteride?Why did your doc put you on T before hCG or Clomid? What were your T levels before treatment and what are they since? If you plan on continuing on TRT, stick with the shots – less conversion to DHT as compared to the gels.

#4

It was mostly stress and overtraining while dieting Mew, although the doc suggested that these causal factors were more like the last straw on a system which had been weakened by years of stress. He suggested adrenal fatigue since DHEA levels were low, which left few raw materials to cascade into T and other androgens. I wasn’t as bad off as some of your forum members, but I had about 6 weeks of serious concern.

Doc said the T was to basically give my whole system a break. HCG will act like LH and FSH, but I had a slightly elevated LH level already, so I used it at the end of the cycle only to restore testicular health. Next time around I’ll be running it concurrently with the T as maintenance. The clomid was used for post cycle recovery as well, although I’ll be looking into nolvadex (tamoxifen) for the future. I don’t know if the HCG and clomid at the start would have been effective since my problem was further up the hormonal chain. BTW, he also put me on DHEA, but studies I’ve read on male supplementation are uninspiring, but who knows.

Steroid use is heavily villified these days, but I don’t feel that responsible and judicious use is as dangerous as the media would have you believe. Some of you guys sound mentally exhausted by what you’re going through and a testosterone holiday might be just what the doctor ordered.