Anyone looked at crowdfunding research or public outreach?

The forum has become 10 years of people trying Tribulus, TRT, Welbutrin, any number of gut things, pelvic floor therapy, juice fasts, Dopamine agonists, any number of vitamins and supplements etc. over and over and over with no results and nothing new for years.

We clearly are going to continue to beat our heads against the wall until scientific study of us gets performed. It will never get performed on its own. WE need to get it performed. We are never going to know what our problem is and get treatment until scientific research is performed.

Is anyone familiar with crowd funding? Could we put together say 50 volunteers to participate in a study, or set of studies, that we propose on a crowdfunding site and get the research started that way? Does anyone here know anything about designing studies and getting crowdfunding?

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Admins won’t allow you to do this.

I’ve written about this recently, so forgive me if I’m repeating myself.

The cost of previous studies is likely to be dwarfed by the work that we think is necessary for our next steps. It’s extremely likely that we would need grant assistance. We need to make sure the details are correct so we can get the right people onboard and seek funding. If someone here does have something in the region of a million euros to fund work, some of the below becomes easier.

It’s important that we are able to put forward a robust case to scientists. Even more important, the right scientists. Scientists of any great renown will not be looking for work. We will not be the only people asking for them to work on a project. We need to meet with them, explain why they need to take our project. Not why we need them.

Next, it’s my understanding that saying “this is the experiment we wish you to conduct” is also not the way it works. We present the situation, explain why this will trigger an explosion of interest, they design the study. If we agree that the study is appropriate, we then arrange funding.

There are scientists who would take our money but then run an experiment based on their hunch, their preference, or field of interest. The study could be a success but the result could be irrelevant to us.

It’s important to not only have a study take place, but that it be done by the right scientists and it be the right study.

If we get a study agreed with a scientist and their team and the funding in place, we need to be thinking about the next steps. We may need funding again, even if extremely successful. If we are not successful, we may not get funded again. It is important that any time we seek funding it is for a study which will yield good results and data.

At this point, we have not got a study in place and cannot tell you what kind of result we can hope for from the study. Our admins have recently met with scientists who they consider to be the best choice for us. With time we hope to be able to announce a project. Things have become a lot more difficult with a global pandemic taking place.

Ultimately, the time is sadly not right to run a fundraiser. I’m sad to say that and would prefer that we were in a better position.

So, what can you at a community level do?

The same stuff that we moderators promote all the time, unfortunately. If, as I’ve said more people helped to attract people here, more people took the survey, more people took part in our other projects, we would look like a more viable funding cause. Recently the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative announced they would fund research into rare diseases. If we had more proof, a more compelling argument we may have qualified for the kind of money we need.

In terms of what we have to show, you’re correct, a forum full of various homebrew theories does not help us either get funding or to convince scientists of what we believe the scale of this problem may be and to select working with us over another equally well funded group. What would help?

We believe this is a huge public health problem but we can’t prove it without the data. Fill in the survey. Prove existence of this condition. Compell anyone who has been here 3 months to take the survey.

We need more people taking the survey - tell the world this project exists through YOUR social channels. Find people on social media and ask them to take our survey.

More visibility - become part of our video project.

Genetic data - 23&me project. I don’t know the status of this, @dubya_b is the person to ask about this.

Participating in all of these projects will get us closer to a desirable outcome than convincing everyone here to donate to a cause which doesn’t have a design, a person to action it or a clear outcome. Though many people here will say they have the understanding of what the study needs to entail and how to do it, it needs to be something a scientist wants to do. It doesn’t matter if you think you have the perfect study in mind, we need to have the scientist want to do it and for them to be of a high enough caliber to deliver the high quality results that we need.

We can ill afford to throw money and reputation away. We are trying to secure a high quality research partner and hope to announce something soon.

This is how I see things, Awor or Axolotl would be the best people to speak about this (If you search for their posts they doubtlessly have repeatedly). Please consider that this post has taken me 45 minutes to write and I have done so out of respect for you and the community.

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Every single member needs to read this. What @Greek just described is the only viable route to success. Just simply winging it by pooling together whatever resources we can in the least amount of time won’t yield any results. Please participate in the community.

But there is an American foundation. Will it help you?

At the current rate of progress none of us will ever recover. It was clear homebrews weren’t going to do it at least five years ago. The number of respondents to survey is pathetic especially for Accutane sufferers who are the youngest, most demographically diverse, and likely to draw sympathy from public.

Something has to change now. It’s an emergency.

Can we make some big push to get material that would incentivize scientific attention? Everyone needs to be behind something. Videos from men women and children on how it’s affecting their lives. Professionally recorded and edited. A documentary. Including family members. Something more than sitting here for years waiting for tens of respondents to survey to trickle in and then eventually do something later. We have to be clear here. We need the survey filled out and we need scientists to be socially rewarded for taking on our cause. The current approach is never going to work and we will die tragic lives if we don’t adopt a new one.

Wuhan virus is not an excuse for more passivity. It will take us more time to do what needs to be done than the virus will still be dominating news.

Forgive me if this is patronising, I honestly don’t mean it to be.

The answer is No, we probably can’t. Here’s the reason. As I mentioned earlier the scientists are not waiting for us to call. There are other people vying for their attention. There are more projects for them to take on than they have time for. It’s also a business for them, how they pay their bills, even if they really like our cause they can’t do anything if we don’t have the money. In short, if we were awash with money, we could get it done with brute force (keep adding money until it’s irresistible) OR we can qualify for grants and financial aid. The way we get that is not by producing material. It’s by getting data and facts.

Be the change you want to see. Make a video.

Yes, we need the survey to be filled out. As an isotretinoin person, you’re right your group is bizarrely under-represented. Please liaise with other isotretinoin victims so that they come and take the survey. Convince them that they need to do it.

It is working. We are already talking to the right people. Turning around and starting again or changing strategy will not help. The survey isn’t that old, it’s terrible that so many people ignore it, but we as a community need to come together and get everyone on the same page.

As a divided group we will struggle forever. For every person who says “let’s stick together and work on this” there’s at least one person who says “no, I’m going off on my own” and we need to stop that. Which is why I have written to you today.

I think the most commonly said thing here is “someone needs to…” And then nothing. Lots of ideas, very few actions, unfortunately. That’s part of why we set the bar so low.

It’s very easy to criticize our huge achievements, but no other patient group has achieved what we have. Most people underestimste how much work it takes to just keep this forum from being a cesspit of arguing, bad advice and people who would seek to exploit the membership. Let alone that we have already run crowdfunded studies, and with Awor and Axolotl have done work which is unprecedented for a patient group by being able to categorise the condition with the survey.

There is nothing else out there for doctors and scientists to point at showing patient experience. Next time you go to the doctor and they say what you’re reporting is impossible, we have the results to show not only is it possible but here it is replicated over and over with clinically accurate results. This doesn’t exist anywhere else. Other surveys you might have seen are nowhere near as detailed and do not ask the questions clinicians need the answers to. This is not something for the average person to be able to understand or do without serious research and consultation.

It makes me quite depressed to know how much work goes into getting as far as we have and to have people think it’s as nothing. The reason so much effort went into the survey is because it is the thing you are asking for. It is the material to engage and excite scientists. We started at the end and worked our way back to where we are. This is the route to getting the work done.

The fact is that the pathetic (your word) turn out for the survey is what we’ve got from the half dozen people on this forum we have who work really hard to get the best for you and everyone else affected. If 100 people had worked as hard as myself, the other mods and some amazing members of the forum have done we would be on a much higher number. Luckily, you recognise that we need to make more progress. Instead of saying all our hard work is pathetic you could take an alternate route.

Here’s what you can do:

Can you send a single tweet sharing our survey?

Can you send a single tweet every day?

Can you invite 5 people you know who are affected to take the survey?

Can you invite 5 people a day?

Can you fill out a survey that’ll take an hour?

Can you make a ten minute video talking to your phone?

Can you spit in a tube?

Can you convince other people to send a single tweet?

None of this stuff is particularly difficult or time consuming.

Why are there only 10 people doing it? It’s not as sexy as a professional video shoot, but hey, it is free (23&Me fees withstanding). If you can’t convince someone fill out a survey, what makes you think they’ll sit in front of a camera crew.

Be part of the change. Help people take the survey.

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@vkg1 This is the same I have been talking about here

@Greek is right about every point, apart from the fact that he likes to take every thing as an insult

Can you point me to the sentence where he said YOUR hard work was pathetic. Please note that this also, is not an attack. Please. I am very thankful to everyone on this board. Don’t want a beef with anyone, not when I was okay and definitely not now.

We need to get people onboard for the survey.
I found similar sufferers to us on Reddit r/anhedonia. Many took Isotretinoin. I have been trying to get in touch with them, although everybodys hopeless (including me). Everybody who’s reading this please go here and try to get people here. We don’t even need to create new sentences. Greek has written good stuff here, hopefully it should convince some.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/214733665588935/ is a group someone introduced me to. Same thing to do here. Found one guy in same exact position as us. I have asked him to come here and fill the survey, same as the reddit people I contacted. Don’t know if he has yet.

Just linking this page should be enough to convince quite a few. Greek saved me a good amount of headache. THanks man. I hope people read it.

Now, my other point is, sadly we don’t have any scientists to conduct onboard yet (fingers crossed that awors contact works out). But many people don’t have the life left in themselves to wait for unknown ETAs (including me). Everyday I open this site and click new thread titled ‘I am giving up’, but I am not able to go through with it.
I am not able to find teams which will do our tests. Lets try and find some team which will do our tests and keep updating us on fast track whatever we can find out quickly, eliminate our theories. Anyone, who knows some doctor in their family? Anyone here who can get in touch with the doctors they have met? The mods here who are better in touch with the research community?
Please guys, lets do something now. Lets not wait around for a miracle that hasn’t come for decades. As I said in the other thread and Greek has said here, no one gives a fuck about us. We have to do it ourselves.

This statement gets thrown around on here and it makes no sense. The lack of progress in the last 10-20 years has zero relevance in regards to how much progress can be made in the next 10 years. The current circumstances are completely different to what they were back then. It’s only recently that the efforts of Axo and Awor have provided the foundations for growth and direction, before that there was no mobilisation on the issue at all. It’s now down to us to pool together to ignite the growth.

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I beg to differ. The track record proves that the current approach is not going to work. It hasn’t worked and it won’t work. It means that we have to do something different and every day that we don’t is another day we lose.

We have to completely change the focus of this forum from broscience and home remedies to publicizing our predicament and reaching out to people to fill out the survey. BOTH. Not one or the other and not just sitting around thinking about plans. Doing. Now.

ps - the survey isn’t recent anymore. It’s well over a year old and response thus far has been completely inadequate

I’m not here to argue, but when the statement is that the number of respondents to the survey is pathetic, which is this forum’s project, I feel like it’s something of a personal attack.

I don’t think that’s quite what I should have said if that is what I said, but what’s true is that people who are in the business of medical research do so as a business, not for love or affection.

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No personal attack. The priority on home remedies and broscience predates you. But I do think we would get more survey respondents if we made its pursuit a more overt focus of the site.

the current approach we are doing is different from what we’ve done to have the track record

so no, it doesnt prove anything

The current approach is well in its infancy though. It hasn’t been going on for a decade or more. It needs time/more effort from the community

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@vkg1 If you have any ideas to increase survey participation, in detail, please feel free to share them.

And please also consider participating in the implementation of your suggestions.

Where’s the focus on getting survey respondents and public outreach to inform public on situation with these drugs? The overwhelming majority of posts on here regard people trying the same old things that have never worked. Same as last 10 years. The survey has been out how long now and how many participants? We need thousands of participants.

I am talking about the majority of effort on this board being toward getting survey participants and public outreach.

I agree with you. I am trying to get people onboard here.

What I am ALSO saying is, while getting people here, we also need a research team or even a single doctor here who is interested in helping us. Because we don’t know when the correct path will give fruit.

Thats what I have been saying since the start

I said this on 25 Feb. I have always been saying the survey is paramount. We all also know that there isn’t something concrete that could help us YET.

Edit: Guys also please go onto the forums I shared above and spread the word about the survey. If people see the survey being talked about in 2 places I am sure they will be interested. Just go and copy paste Greeks word. I ll also do the same.

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Well there’s a small group of us on this forum trying to reach out to people of various accutane FB groups, but yes we need more help in that regard. In terms of public outreach, the YouTube project is open to everyone. I’m recording my entry next week, to add to the sole entry we already have. People who are desperate for a cure might want to consider submitting an entry themselves.

I want to but can’t because of public career.