Have you continued using 6 oxo?
Yea the cycling of high-levels of DHT once a week seems really promising. Would Creatine work for this?
Can a medical doctor (or someone who knows what’s going on) look again at what the original anonymous poster was saying? This guys seems right on point. Who here has actually had some improvement with intermittent DHT supplementation.
I feel like the guy was trying to give us some secrets, almost like he had personal knowledge of how Finasteride works, let’s keep chasing this!!
ur right he was speaking like that rly
What’s the best way to do this ? I wanna
It would seem there is a choice between the following:
Masteron - injection
Proviron (oral DHT)
Andractim (DHT gel)
Who has experimented with these in very high dosages once a week?
This has been discussed a lot in the past. Check this thread: Open Letter to the Advocates of 5AR2 Deficiency and Adiol-G
There is no evidence that I am aware of that suggests we lack DHT or 5AR2 expression. In fact, most people that have experimented with androgens (incl. DHT) have not have success with it. This observation gave rise to the idea that we do not lack androgens, but that the androgenic signal is silenced. It does not matter how many mails you send, when the mail is not properly delivered to the address.
werent the AR overexpressed with the newest findings?
i dont seem to get it
or is the AR gene silenced and the AR receptor overexpressed?
thanks in advance
AR is overexpressed. That has been confirmed in penile tissues of PFS patients. The theory currently under investigations goes broadly like this: When we take Fin, we reduce androgens (DHT). The body tries to compensate for the reduction in androgens by increasing androgen receptor expression. This is a well documented fact. When we quit Fin, DHT returns to baseline, but for some unknown reason (genetic disposition?) androgen recepter expressions does not decrease back to baseline. Overexpressed ARs with baseline androgens leads to an overexpressed AR signal, that means the signal is “too strong”, which triggers a negative feedback loop to silence the signal.
If you allow me a silly metaphor: Imagine you have a music box (AR receptors) with a volume control (androgens). Everything works fine and the sound (AR signal) is neither too loud nor too low. It’s just right. But then someone else decides to decrease volume (that’s what Fin does by decreasing androgens). Now the sound is too low. You don’t realise the volume was decrease, so you decide to compensate by adding more music boxes (AR overexpression). Sound level (AR signal) is fine again. Now someone realises that the volume control has been set low and they increase it back to a normal level (androgens return to baseline after we quit Fin). Since a lot of music boxes have been added, the return to baseline results in very loud music, your ears hurt, you panic and hit the main switch. Music is out (silenced AR signal).
This is an interesting read, too: Excerpt From Varility Paradox Cause of PFS. The paradox applies here as well. WIth overexpressed ARs and baseline androgens you would expect a higher androgenetic response. We should all be horny as fuck (and many of us are before we crash). But the body tries to compensate, when things go beyond “normal” levels. And in our case, it overcompensates. The body is a very fine-tuned machine. When we take Fin, we mess with a lot of fine tuned elements and for some reason our body cannot return to the original state.
Please note that I am not a scientists and I don’t dig very deep into the science. I am not sure about some nuances and may get some things wrong. But I think I get the big picture of what the scientists are investigating and to me it makes a lot of sense.
nice explaination finally
now everyone can. understand this
my question is,whats the proposition for. reversing the silenced AR signal?
is there any drug or existing agent that might theoretically help us?
I am glad that this makes sense. It is a complicated. Unfortunately, this is just the surface of the problem. There are more layers that are even more complicated and that I don’t understand. Let’s just say that there are complex interaction between genes, receptors and other proteins that need to be understood…
What we can do about it? First, we need to understand, how the signal is silenced. From what I understand, the idea is that the signal (gene expression) is silcenced by gene methylation. We would need to demethylate the areas affected. Demethylation agents exist, but we may need agents that target specific areas. Hopefully, the Baylor study will confirm that gene expression is indeed silenced/reduced, what the mechanism is (Methylation) and which areas are affected (given the differet symptom profiles here, this may vary from person to person). Then, we would need to find the right agents (if they exist).
But if AR overexpression is driving the problem, even if we successfully demethylate, the AR is still overexpressed which may resukt in remethylation of these areas. We may then have to look at ways to reduce AR expression. Or we may have to look for ways to increase gene expression in other ways without addressing the root cause. Unfortunately, I don’t know if and how this is possible. I haven’t researched deep enough.
There is a lot we still don’t know. That is why it is important to support all the ongoing research projects in the community here and new studies that may come up in the future.
Thanks @Northern_Star, very succinct and educational explanation. Seems to be a main question that is asked on the site all the time:
How do we reduce the over expression of the Androgen Receptor?
That’s an excellent explanation, let’s just hope it’s easier to solve than many other diseases that have taken almost a lifetime to understand. I guess we live in a modern area, so things should be quicker, I certainly hope they’ll figure out how to cure all types of cancer before I die, once they crack that, everything else will look so easy in comparison.
This is the only question that has to be answered in this whole forum. Many of you guys suffered greatly, yet nobody tried this hopeful cure…
the same reason u are asking this question…
everyone asks no one tries
The reason is, im not a PFS victim. I used Accutane and i have 2 mild sexual side effects: Duller orgasms and low Semen volume But i would like to give it a try if this protocol works. Im tired from all of this.
Your symptoms are still permanent PFS symptoms, sorry.
Could you elaborate it more?
PFS symptom = a permanent symptom caused by epigenetic changes (receptor expression). Can happen with every single hormon and Neurotransmitter.
I have permanent thyroid symptoms on top of classic PFS symptoms after playing with thyroid hormones (starting and stopping abruptly).
This guy was really into something. I guess i am going to try this… high dose of proviron every Sunday. Does anyone know how much suppressive it can be? It seems safer than @pal protocol.
So did you try proviron?