This looks interesting. Anyone got more insight into the use of androstenedione and/or androstandione?
Precursor to Testosterone, requires 5ar to convert to DHT. And considering we have 5ar issues, the ability to convert this downstream to DHT is remote at best.
Based on research and advice from doctors; using DHT (Andractim) will stimulate the production of 5ar over time. And eventually, once 5ar activity recovers, you WOULD be able to take products with Androstenedione found in many bodybuilder supplements and benefit from T and DHT. But remember, this also increases Estradiol/Estrone, so an AI will be needed.
Not everyone has the same severity of damage to T/DHT/Estrogen/5ar, so please treat this as informational depending on your hormone profile needs.
Towm8er, I’m glad to hear my theories about PFS being damage to the body’s ability to regulate 5ar are catching on. I don’t care if I don’t get credit for it, for the greater good, your comments about Andractim are most interesting, so this induces 5ar activity according to doctors you spoke with? That overtime this could stimulate 5ar enzymic recovery? That’s very promising news, why aren’t more people here using it? I may talk to my hrt doc about it and order it myself, while my protocols are working, I want to hit this with everything I can to get my 5ar enzymes to work properly on their own again without needing to be regulated. Please give me your feedback about this, thanks!
Please stop embarrassing yourself by posting egocentric drivel like this. Persistent 5ar inhibition has been discussed many times.
My theories state that the side effects are due to lack of the actual 3 enzymes which have functions as they reduce test to dht, has that been discussed before? You will have to excuse me, I am not so used to such rude and insulting people.I was thinking about this today and it might explain more things to us. For example, why do I keep getting better, crashing and then recovering more. Each time I do get better than before, I wonder if it is the constant stimulation of my 5ar enzymes by all these different protocols that is making me get better. Perhaps nothing in particular that we are trying is in itself working, perhaps it is that we are constantly stimulating our 5ar enzymic system with androgenic agonists. Think about it, the people who recovered all tried lots of androgenic stuff, CDNuts for example, we all think it is the final drug he took. Perhaps it is the culmination.
Maybe I am onto something, but not for the original reasons I thought, perhaps none of the things I am doing are selectively working, perhaps I just keep changing protocols and triggering the 5AR enzymic system.
I don’t know if anyone has actually taken the time to point this out to you but the reason you’re met with such rudeness is because every single one of “your” theories were discussed years before you appeared here. One of the best things about this website is the repository of information here. If you were to use the search function, lurk more and check if “your” theories have been discussed before (Trust me, they have) then you’d probably be met with a lot less hostility.
Also, defect 5ar enzymes have already been discussed. Damn, every theory I can think of has been discussed. I know you think you’re helping by posting all of these theories but it’s damned rude to believe you’re intellectually superior to some of the people who’ve been afflicted by this condition for ten years or more. Can you blame people for finding you annoying when you claim these old theories as your own?
Is this your first forum bro?
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Please stop embarrassing yourself by posting egocentric drivel like this. Persistent 5ar inhibition has been discussed many times.
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My theories state that the side effects are due to lack of the actual 3 enzymes which have functions as they reduce test to dht, has that been discussed before? You will have to excuse me, I am not so used to such rude and insulting people.
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I don’t know if anyone has actually taken the time to point this out to you but the reason you’re met with such rudeness is because every single one of “your” theories were discussed years before you appeared here. One of the best things about this website is the repository of information here. If you were to use the search function, lurk more and check if “your” theories have been discussed before (Trust me, they have) then you’d probably be met with a lot less hostility.
Also, defect 5ar enzymes have already been discussed. Damn, every theory I can think of has been discussed. I know you think you’re helping by posting all of these theories but it’s damned rude to believe you’re intellectually superior to some of the people who’ve been afflicted by this condition for ten years or more. Can you blame people for finding you annoying when you claim these old theories as your own?
Is this your first forum bro?
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It is my first forum, so you will have to excuse me, I have apologized, I never posted to a forum before. Before PFS I was quite normal, lots of girls, lots of boys, party life style, asked to be a model, was in the glamour business. This condition has driven me mad, I have started to post less and read more, I had to learn a lot about how forums work when I came here.
I was told my theories had not been discussed, so I am sorry, I have managed to find ways to improve PFS by about 80% in many ways using hormones and HGH therapy. I can’t talk to my friends, or even my doctors, people are starting to think I have lost my mind. So this forum is all I have so that I can get what I have to say out and then live my life normally.
Anyway, again, my apologizes, sometimes I feel so alone with this, if you saw me it would be hard to tell I have PFS, that makes it more difficult for me. I managed to regain a somewhat “buff” muscular body with my protocols. I am not as big as I was pre-PFS, but bigger than most guys, I do have a big ego, I won’t deny it, I have tried to be optimistic and positive throughout this thing.
I certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone, I am trying to post less updates and only post significant progress. I have found a way to reverse PFS crashes though, Sermorelin/GHRP2/GHRP6, injected during any PFS crash and the crash reverses. I am not sure if it is the HGH released or the activation of the pituitary gland.
I understand that, I’m a lurker turned poster myself. I’ve been lurking forums since HLT (Cringe).
People will take you a lot more seriously if you try and line up your experiences with other members, you’re a rather unique case as you were on hrt before this. I believe Awor was on TRT before this, his experiences could be valuable to you as he came to some of the conclusions you did. (Lower doses of androgen replacement etc)
I’d also recommend reading everything you can from a user called “Enden”, he’s gone further than anyone else attempting to manage the condition via HRT and I believe you’d probably find some valuable information in his findings and experiences. Feel free to pm me if you need any help digging around here, I’d be happy to help anyway I can.
Thank you terrified, I really appreciate it, I will look into those posts, I do believe hormones are the key to getting us restored. Just because they do not work right many here have given up on them completely. I know for a fact that they help, they may not work right, but I have managed to make myself functional with them. The measure of how “cured” I am is how I respond to testosterone quite frankly, and so far inducing androgenic action constantly with new protocols has only made me better.
I ejaculate about 3 times a day and have a muscular build, none of this would be possible without hormones. Guys here who seem to think they are going to naturally recover their secondary issue (hypogonadism) naturally I think are misguided. If there were anyway to naturally recover low testosterone, it would be done.
What concerns me is many on this forum who have “PFS” have not even tried HRT thinking it will not work, many of those guys may just have low testosterone. Finasteride caused me low testosterone, HRT worked famously before I tried Avodart and triggered PFS.
Thanks for your help and sorry if my posts come across as arrogant, it is not my intention, I am bad at typing things.
Unfortunately many of us don’t have the experience with hrt to be able to manage the condition the way you or enden do. Have you ever heard the expression “Once bitten, twice shy”? Most of us (myself included) are reluctant to mess with hormones again after what fin did to our bodies. I also believe a natural recovery is very possible for some of us here however and wouldn’t consider myself cured if I were on hrt for the rest of my life.
I have extensive experience in the field, before I had PFS HRT changed my life, I have no problem being on it so long as I want to be young and masculine. My dad is 68 and I got him on it and he is growing young before his own eyes and is amazed. It is of course your choice, but Finasteride or just age does cause lower hormone levels.
Finasteride repressed enymes, HRT is safe, if you do not fix your hormone levels to optimal levels then you will never really know if you are recovering from PFS as you will have hypogonadism. PFS studies have showed androgen deprivation as a cause of damage to penile tissue. Before I was stricken with PFS had I come here I would have never tried HRT thinking I had PFS, I had all the symptoms you guys have when I had low T and I am sure it was from finasteride damage.
HRT changed my life, my goal has been to try to get it working properly again, but even working 50% it gives me morning erections, a really nice body, and all the positive effects. PFS and hypogonadism are two different problems, we don't even know if low testosterone is caused by PFS. Since there are guys with good testosterone levels who have PFS, you definitely should get your hormones in check, otherwise you will never really recover.
No one ever really recovers from low testosterone, if I had to deal with that on top of PFS I would do myself in, I am saying this because I care. HRT has nothing to do with finasteride, it is a form of medicine called anti-aging and most anti-aging doctors are against finasteride (mine is). When I first saw him he tried to get me to quit it, I wish I had listened, but I was hard headed.
Since I had low test and corrected it and then got PFS, I can tell you both are pretty much the same thing, the difference between low test and PFS is that your body is not responding to test so you have low test symptoms. However, I have progressively got better, I am 5 months in and I am like 80% better, I tried quitting HRT for a couple weeks and it was horrible!
HRT may not work right, but the times it works throughout the day or the week matters, it is what helps quite a bit, I have managed to get it to work rather consistently. I don't want any angry responses, but with a background in science and medicine I can tell you that even if your mind is not responding, you want to keep androgens and blood flowing to the penis and testicles. HCG for example would keep that happening to an extent, no one with PFS has not had testicle recovery from HCG from what I have seen. The mind and 5AR regulation may not be working, but getting the mechanics to is a start.
I am confident if not for HRT I would not be where I am 5 months later, I would be where I was maybe 2 weeks after my crash, I know this based on my experiences. My experiences with HRT is that I have been taking 2 steps forward, 1 step back and then 1 step forward just about every 2 weeks.Also JQD, derailing other peoples threads is generally poor form.
OP this is really interesting stuff, androstenedione stimulates 5ar even though it’s reduced down to testosterone by 17b-HSD. Unfortunately it also appears to aromatise into Estrone so probably wouldn’t be a great addition to a protocol along that line of thought. If we’re low on 5ar, androstenedione and it’s reduced form both aromatise into estrogens.
Ok, well I am sorry, I don’t want to be rude by derailing the thread, focusing on increasing 5AR enzymic activity is the way to go, I am sure of it based on my own personal experience and that of some others who have responded to me. For the record, I just took Alpha Hard for the first time, huge boost in everything, I just want to make sure it is not DHT suppressive.