Very little on the forum about andactrim. I just did a search of the forum and found very little on this subject.
Can anybody attest to say wheither it helps, works or is a BIG no no?
I’d like to hear from anybody who has actually used this and not just people basing their opinions on theories.
I used it to treat Finasteride induced Gynecomastia (man boobs). Actually it didn’t help for that, and 2.5-3 years later I still have gyne. I applied a bit of dht gel (Andractim) on both nipples once every day for one month. I can surely say that it increases erection strenght strongly even if used to treat gyne. However, the positive effect on erection is not maintained at the end of treatment. Furthermore, when I used andractim I started to experience strange, strong and annoying tinglings in the pelvic floor/scrotum, together with a clear dysfunction in the relaxation of that zone. This means that sometimes and all of a sudden that zone contracts or relaxes and it’s a strong phenomenon accompanied by tinglings. Well, that effect never went away; at most, it did reduce slightly over time. My opinion is that this was due to an interaction between fin side effects and DHT effects. It’s an opinion though.
My suggestion is keep away from drugs/hormones, you risk the worsening of your situation in a “permanent” manner. Before folding back to drugs try natural ways, this means at least psychological/behavioral training, healthy diet and HEAVY exercise. Ie neurological and physical rehabilitation.
Thank you for your reply. My mind is made up now - staying clear of more hormones, ie - andactrim
used for 6 months. it´s good for depression, but not for libido and ED.
I think it is not worth the price. US$250 each in my country.
Guys, I must tell you this. Dr. Irwin Goldstein, the foremost expert on Sexual Medicine and author of many books on the topic, who has many dozens of PFS patients IS recommending Andractim as ‘part’ of a treatment plan to raise DHT.
1) I can only assume the guys asking about this have confirmed their DHT is low. Or the T to DHT ratio is off.
–Andractim WILL increase DHT levels. And so will AlphaHard by Forerunnerlabs. I have lab tests to prove it.
2) I also assumed you guys are aware that PFS has been characterized as causing us to be ‘Androgen Resistant’?
–This may explain why dosing of TRT and Andractim at levels which are too high could pose problems and/or cause someone to believe these could make matters worse.
–Others, including myself, have firsthand experience and can attest to lower dose ‘androgens’ tend to produce better results.
Dr. Goldstein told me to ignore the dosing instructions on Andractim and to only use 2 small amounts about the size of a peanut M&M on each side of rib cage daily. (After having cycled 2 tubes previously, as well as AlphaHard, my DHT finally came back up and the ratio of T to DHT showed improvement, but still not optimal yet)
3) If you tried Andractim, were you were dosing properly and putting on the right body locations?
Nowhere in the instructions have I read to rub this on your nipples. If you have GYNO, you must focus on ESTROGEN levels (Estradiol and Estrone) and use an AI or SERM or DIM/Chrysin or (Calcium D-Glucarate which mops up excess estrogen <-recommended by CDNuts)
I hope this clears up some confusion and prompts people to do a little more research before making such comments against DHT solutions. Labs are a must and I would not recommend anyone try TRT or DHT without knowing your values and getting proper guidance from a doctor.
DHT on nipples is used to treat gyno (in my case it is glandular gyno, not fat, the mammary glands swollen!!), maybe it’s not written on the instructions but this is prescribed by some doctors, in particular for finasteride induced gyno. This is based on some studies if I remember correctly. I was prescribed this therapy by a Researcher Endocrinologist and Andrologist who dealt with pfs many times. I used approx the same amount as you did, and my T was low, about at the lower limit of range. Though it didn’t work and indeed I could have tried another drug but considering what happened after I used dht (tinglings and pelvic floor relaxation dysfunctions) we chose not to worsen the situation with other drugs/hormones. If you feel so sure about the simplicity of this illness, go ahead 
the variables implied are so many that even a blood test won’t tell you if you should take a drug or not beacuse we don’t know nothing about pfs and we don’t even know if this illness is the same for everyone (and I seriously doubt about it).
PS - I have done all the needed research at the time. And I am scientifically prepeared to take this kind of decision and to express an opinion.
You were using the same amount as towm8er to remove gyno? Doesn’t really sound like you did the right research, from what i’ve read of people who’ve removed gyno with it the idea is to use just enough to saturate the effected tissue and avoid systematic absorbtion. Towm8er isn’t using it to remove gyno, he’s using it systematically under the care of damned good doctor. If you were using that much on your nipples, you absorbed the drug systematically, what did your Doc have to say about that? How long did you have the gyno before you tried andractim?
Edit - You definitely absorbed the drug systematically if it made it from your chest area to your genitals.
I did absorb it systematically. I used maybe 1 cm gel (maybe a bit less) from the tube on each nipple and after a minute or so I cleaned what remained. I dont’ remember the amounts used in the studies. However my T was low, so there was no problem in using that amount anyway and for a restricted period of time. As for the damned good doctor, I have nothing to say on Goldstein, though no one has a cure here, am I wrong? so where exactly is your point? Are you saying that Dr Golstein can guarantee the complete absence of side effects of DHT after finasteride use? and exactly will this be true for everyone? for those who used fin 1 week and for those who used it 10 years? for all genomes? for all experiences of life. In which study is this substantiated? I just gave my opinion. DHT gave me permanent side effects, with normal/low amounts, but I believe this is due to fin use, not because dht is bad on it’s own. Maybe my genetics played a role in this, who knows, I just don’t claim to have the truth in my hands. I express an opinion. This should be interpreted as a word of caution, considering all the doctors (including Goldstein, which you assume is better than mine - which you don’t know - under unknown assumptions) are trying to treat an illness that nobody knows “much” about. When Melcangi spoke at the conference on PFS in Tourin, he said they saw that neurosteroids were reduced in the liquor but actually no one knows a heck of what’s going on in the brain, so keep calm, as I am not going to refrain my opinions on sentences like “it worked for me, so avoid misleading people”. If you want to experiment on your body with therapies of statistically unproved efficacy and safety (under pfs conditions), do it. But don’t aggressively pretend I should advocate this point of view as this is what propecia supporters did when we were saying that propecia gave bad side effects. And still, there were plenty of studies to debate on, which isn’t the case for DHT use under PFS conditions.
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I wasn’t trying to argue with you, Tab. Just theorizing as to why it effected you in such a way, I felt it’d be beneficial to the whole discussion to point out that the amount of dht you were using was much, much more than the intended purpose and was likely suppressive which is definitely a problem if your T is already low. Even for non pfs people who suppress their own production a PCT is usually needed to fix things
I don’t know who your Doctor is and I apologise for appearing like I was attempting to compare the two, I was trying to point out that towm8er is using Andractim for its intended purpose, under the care of a Doctor. Whereas you were using it for an off label purpose that most Doctors aren’t familiar with.
No offense meant. I was just worried that A) Your Doctor caused more damage and didn’t realise/care. B) This might be a treatment we can all benefit from if we can figure out why it works for some but doesn’t for others and we seem to be sensitive to androgens, 2cm of gel a day is a tonne of androgens. Literally days and days worth of DHT.
Normal use of Andractim (as stated on the instructions) is of 5-10 g/day. I was using not more than 1 g/day which is actually very low. And I used it only for one month. I doubt it was suppressive. Probably towm8er was on very low dose “HRT”. Still he used much more than me.
What I meant in my first post is that even though I used dht on the nipples (and it didn’t work for gyne) and considering I had neat improvements in erection fullness (rock hard), dht probably flushed in bloodstream and the pelvic floor problems I then had are probably to be considered unrelated to the point of application. Actually instructions say it can be applied on the chest or abdomen, so the application point I used isn’t that far from what is indicated for normal HRT. I just used a portion of the indicated application area. So I can assume I was in a normal low dose DHT replacement therapy. We are not machines, everybody reacts differently. I don’t know if dht can work for someone, honestly I never heard of someone stating DHT “cured them” with unfading results. It helped me while I was on it, and I liked the effect, but that wasn’t a cure and I cannot say I felt like before fin. No. I didn’t have spontaneous erections as an example. IMHO, it’s not only a problem with 5ar activity.
My opinion is you shouldn’t strain, with dubious treatments, a system that is already damaged. This system is so complex and the complexity of the damage is probably so extensive that even if we knew the first cause of our dysfunctions (and we already can suppose at least a couple of things are wrong with us), we wouldn’t be able to cure them; at most we would be able to provide symptom relief. But you know that any treatment like this comes with it’s own contraindications. I hope I am wrong on this.
Time and healthy living have been the most relevant form of cure in propeciahelp. The most intelligent way to proceed in my opinion is to strain our body’s innate healing abilities trying to collapse this healing time as much as possible. But it’s not a simple task as this requires intense commitment, and still I am not 100% sure how much we can do about it or if there’s really a no-return point.
PS- I used DHT about 6 months after gyno started and fin withdrawal.
Anyway, I was just offering an alternate theory as to why you may have had good and bad experiences. What do you think?
Absorbtion rates are lower than what is contained on the gel. From what I can read over the internet this rate is about 10% of the rubbed content. ie 2,5 mg, not 25mg. I remember I was aware of this when I used it. It was more than two years ago.
And apparently it is not higly suppressive as T because T gets converted to estrogens, being the cause of LH suppression. However, as I said, once you go and inoculate external substances in your body you always produce some kind of effect on your organism. And your system gets deviated: if you blindly deviate the state of the system from it’s already deviated/unhealthy state, you highly risk to prolonge the time it will get to regain homeostasis. This time is already long on it’s own after fin, I am not going to condemn myself and burn THE ONLY concrete possibility we have, by irresponsibly experiment on my body until I at least have more clues on what’s going on.
I get your point, but the fact is that even if I used andractim “offlabel” (actually many doctors told me of andractim for gyno and I can read about this all over the net), I still was eligible for HRT, so the effects most probably have nothing to do with the fact that I used it offlabel. Though I cannot really 100% guarantee that DHT was the cause of my pelvic floor side-effects. However I retain this to be highly probable.
Thanks for you time and letting me learn from your experiences, tab. That’s very alarming and once again I’m going to have reconsider my approach. This is exhausting.
This is my opinion. I am not a doctor (even thought I study engineering for biological systems) and can suppose many doctors would have something to argue with what I said on MY “system deviation/rehabilitation thesis”. So it’s up to you to decide who to trust. This is a decision we all have to take. Good Luck…
So I have been hearing a lot about Andractrim and PFS, I agree that using DHT is suppressive of DHT, that is one of the few treatments I am a bit fearful of. However, I have been hearing that the theory is the presence of DHT stimulates your own 5AR into action. Also, using too much of this stuff will have reverse effects, I think we should still explore this. CDNUTS used Alpha Hard (which I have here) which is just a pro hormone of DHT, same thing really, but in a pill. Eden uses Andractrim as part of his protocol, from last I saw on his thread here.
Has anyone looked into DHT PCT? For body builders who use Winstral or other forms of DHT then use PCT for that purpose? Purhaps that can help us, does anyone have a link to CDNUTS exact PCT protocol? Or can you post it here? Thanks.