(pardon me for posting the same question in more than one thread.)
I have a scientific question.
Does “up-regulated or down-regulated genes” mean directly “epigenetic-modifications(Methylation, histone-modification etc)” ? Altered genes expression and epigenetic-modification are completely the same thing?
According to the researches, finasteride brings out thousands of alterations of gene expressions (upregulated or downregulated) in brain and body. So, does it mean that finasteride caused thousands of epigenetic-modifications?
on the other hand, we have the theory that what causes pfs is some epigenetic-modifications which make AR-function distorted and useless. I understand it is the cause of pfs. I don’t know how many epigenetic-modifications contribute to AR-dysfunction. But, it must be not so many.
Then, do the researches reveal that besides epigenetical AR-dysfunction we have “other additional” thousands of epigenetical dysfunction? Is it truth? I feel something strange… If that so, we have not only one problem(AR-dysfunction) but also thousands of problems…
◯ POSITIVE
・sebum secretion came back a little. (Of course not enough and it depends on the day) Running my fingers over forehead, I can visually confirm slight oil twinkling.
● NEGATIVE
・Insomnia is very hard. I can sleep only 2〜3 hours everyday. Sometimes only 1 hour.lol Just bearing…
・Gynecomastia’s improving is at a standstill…
・Hair has transformed very thin and limp in whole. (PFS HAIR)
・wrinkled skin got worse. especially skin of hands and arms.
Things aren’t looking good… I heard some people get new symptoms and become serious with time. I fear it.
But, an improvement of sebum secretion should be positive sign. I’ll continue to just wait and pray for improvement.
Let me state the conclusion first: Regrettably, no improvement. In fact, it has gradually got worse. And I have a question.
For this 12 months, I have been just waiting for natural improvements. I did basically nothing special to cure pfs, because it seems to me impossible to cure this destructive, astronomically complex, and structual damages, besides by the body, life system itself.
6 months ago, I experienced morning wood three times. It had been completely lost since I got pfs. So, I thought it would be the beginning of the first (limited) improvement. But, unfortunately, it was not. I have never experienced any morning wood since then. My libido has been completely zero. Semen has been precious little.
Insomnia keeps the wrost level.
And my skin has become very wrinkled and creaded.
My only improvement is sebum secretion. It comes back a little.
Judging at the moment, my pfs is one of the wrost cases. I am really sad and disappointed.
By the way, I have a question.
Now, I have a lot of hair loss everyday. It had been stopped for about 5 months since I got pfs. Then it restarted and now it is increasing.
So, I thought it might be a sign of recovery. “Is hair loss is the sign of the recovery?” may be a classic question.
Unfortunately, according to the testimonies of people, it is NOT. People say: despite of restart of hair loss, their other symptoms have never been improved.
Umm… Okey. In fact, as for me, there is no improvement. But, I have a question as follow.
Even though hair loss does not meen the sign of recovery, it is surely a change of the state. And thinking it simply, it is rational to think that hair loss reflects a certain degree of restoration of androgen signal in hair related cells. It should be the most simple interpretation. Don’t you think so? This is my first question. The same thing can be said about sebum secretion. Because sebum secretion also had lost and then came back. It should reflect a certain degree of restoration of androgen signal. I think this in itself can be viewed positively. --On the other hand, sexual dysfunction, insomnia, and collapse of skin etc, these symptoms have never been improved.
So, there seems to be a gap between the (estimated) restoration of androgen signal and a realization of recovery from (other) pfs symptoms. How can we interpret and explain this gap? This is my second question.
Simply put, PFS is not necessarily just an androgen signal disorder, but also a disorder of other biological signals. (Its detailed mechanism is not the matter.) This may be the reason why in some cases other symptoms such as sexual dysfunction do not recover proportionately, even though sebum secretion and hair loss have returned. If we assume that PFS is a multiple biological signal disorder caused by violent manipulation of 5 alpha reductase, we can well explain the characteristics of PFS, which has a common pattern of onset, although symptoms and recovery vary widely.
Some patients have no sexual dysfunction, others have no mental symptoms, so this strange disease has no essential core symptoms. (I think this odd characteristic must be extremely significant point. I have never heard of such a disease that has no essential core symptoms. We should think deeply about the meaning of this oddity.) But all biological signal disorder might be caused by the same simple way, that is, strong interference in biological signal. Of course its detailed molecular biological mechanism is uncovered, or rather occult, but it is not the matter. So to speak, we were struck by lightning and the elaborate circuit of our bodies were burnt out.
cf. Two-hit hypothesis
While you might not feel better from balding I’d take it as a welcomed sign of things beginning to work properly. I have yet to lose any hair since quitting a year ago.
I also agree about the oddity of PFS. The fact that no one case is the same scares me even more. How is this possible?
In our body, innumerable kinds of biological signal operate in various ways and levels and sustain our life system and its homeostasis. Such signals work under a perfect harmony.
Depriving of 5α-reductase must be violent and destructive interference in the whole system and its harmony. Because 5α-redactase plays multiple fundamental roles in our body and has a great impact on the whole system through its homeostasis. So, the intervention definitely puts a vast burden on the system and harmony and brings huge distortion to its whole operation. Of course, our system has a flexibility to certain degree to keep its functions. But, there must be a limit. When the burden goes beyond the limit of endurance, the micro-structures which sustain various biological signals gets terribly deformed and loses their functions. Such destructions may occur everywhere both in the brain and the body and at randum. Because our biological signaling system has a flexibility and its limitation and therefore all abnormal strong interference with biological signal can cause such destortion of structure.
If that so, there is no specific mechanism which causes pfs. Because if pfs had a core and key mechanism as the etiology of pfs, there should be a core and essential symptom which is directly brought about by the mechanism. Indeed the list of symtoms is limited and some of them are very popular, but we can not identify any symtom as such essential common symptom. Some patients never have sexual disorder, and others never experience insomnia. So, it seems to be simply damages of fundamental structure of our system. The only reason of its severity may be the fundamentality and cruciality of 5α-reductase. In this case, only the method of destruction, that is to say, depriving of 5AR is common. When we fire a shotgun at someone, no one knows in which the shot hits him.
In my opinion, this is pfs observed from a functional point of view and this is the reason why no one case is the same, despite of the same attack.
I am now at 16th month.
Unfortunately, no improvements. At least, Insomnia and sexual disorders have no improvements. I can sleep only 1〜3 hours. My sexual desire is completely zero and the volume of samen is extremely little. Perhaps, gynecomastia and wrinkled skin could have been improved slightely. But even if so, it is so slightly that it is difficult to recognize its changes visually.
One year ago, I wished and expected that a certain degree of limited improvement would come by time. But contrary to my expectation, it has not come. It is revealed that my case is undoubtedly truely severe. I am very sad. Especially Insomnia is deadly in a very literal sense. If you have achieved recovery from Insomnia, please tell me your episode and experience. It will be very helpful to me!
Probably, my life was lost forever. All the same, time is the only chance yet, if there is any hope. Whatever the precise mechanism of pfs is (I really want to know it), apparently it is not difficult to imagine that it is impossible to repair this destructive damages by any artificial interference. it would be equivalent to put time back. Self-adaption of body to distortions through decades may be the only hope. Do nothing and don’t interfere with our body may be the best. All we can do is be patient and wait and pray for the time come. Now I bravely bear the all tortures of hell and sadness day after day.
I was wondering why I felt so exhausted all the time. And then I started trying to sleep lots of times a day. About half of the time I can get 8 hours of sleep per day if I try again and again, every few hours. I don’t feel tired when I lay down. I feel exhausted-but-not-tired. But I lay down and can often get two hours of sleep here and there which add up to 8 on a little less than half of my days. The result is that I feel less exhausted. I still don’t have the energy I did before all this happened, but getting more sleep each day makes each day noticeably better.
Tonight I went to sleep at 9:30p and had really rocky sleep until 2am. – I slept 8 hours every night without even thinking about it before Finasteride.
My sexuality has also been obliterated. Every time I pee I’m surprised at how tiny my penis is now. I don’t recognize it. Every time I see porn I’m shocked at how much work it is to get any response from my penis, after my old life where the mention of sex would’ve made me involuntarily hard.
I’m just trying to make the most of my life. What happened is so wrong, but it’s also done now and the people who did it to me are living their own lives and never think of me. I think of them many times every day. What I hope for myself is that I can find some part of life that I love so much that the love is bigger than the hurt. I do have fun days. I eat tasty treats sometimes. It’s worth seeing if there’s anything I can do to feel inspired and hopeful, to feel like I’m thriving, to feel in-the-zone.
I do feel like my life was ruined. But the only thing to do now is make the most of what I’ve got. It’s still better than all my friends who have died for other reasons. I do still hope I can make a difference in this world. Even if I don’t, I hope I have some peaceful moments. I hope I get some moments where I really laugh. I hope I feel really connected to another person again.
– Mainly, the way you talk about your experience sounds so much like mine. I’m on the opposite side of the planet, but I’m walking a really similar path right now.
Thanks you for letting me know about your sleep efforts. It’s practical and helpful. So far, I have had little success getting back to sleep once I wake up. Because my insomnia is the wrost. But I think I’ll try it again, now that you put it into practice.
I do still hope I can make a difference in this world. Even if I don’t, I hope I have some peaceful moments. I hope I get some moments where I really laugh. I hope I feel really connected to another person again.
What a beautiful words. I think your attitude is definitely right. I feel the same way. As for me in addition, to lighten my feelings of despair, now I think as if I got a fatal sick and had only 2〜3 years to live, and then I will devote myself to do something within the left time. In spite of this killing insomnia and other hopeless symptoms, I can probably still do something a little.
I’m on the opposite side of the planet, but I’m walking a really similar path right now.
hi everyone. now at 20 months. I have no improvement.
Insomnia is killing me… Over the last 500 days, I can sleep only 1〜3 hours per a day. I am really driven by insomnia into a corner. It is no wonder that I will suddenly die tomorrow. Plainly, it is impossible for our body to bear and live under the such severe condition forever.
I realize and understand that time and natural limited recovery is the only chance and hope for us. Therefore, all what we can and must do is to be patient and wait.
However, this severe insomnia never allow me to endure and wait for the time. It is killing me.
…Okey, if that so, it is also my fate. It is dependent on whether insomnia can improve or not. Judging from my situation, I doubt that it is possible to improve this insomnia.
So, I really want to listen to you about your experience of insomnia. Or if you see a story of recovery from insomnia somewhere, would you share it with me? please.
