Good news for those of us with dopamine related problems. Like i said many times, i am absolutely sure my dopamine system isn’t functioning well, the only question is whether resolving that could result with pfs recovery.
Anyway, i’ve finally found exactly what i was looking for: way to temporarily reduce dopamine without any side effects, like those associated with anti psychotics. It’s called alpha-methyl-p-tyrosine, and here are some studies involving it:
You can find more, if you’re interested. Notice these symptoms from this yourbrainonporn article… isn’t there to much similarities with our condition? Anyway, if lower number of dopamine receptors (or lower sensitivity), is correlated to pfs, treatment with this drug (brand name is Demser) should be beneficial. The only problem for me is that i can’t buy it in my country and i haven’t found any site where it could be ordered. So, did anyone have some experience with this drug, or is interested in trying it ?
Yeah tremor and ‘dry eyes’ (due to increased prolactin) are among them. I measured prolactin and it was slightly above the range, which causes decreased lh and fsh- lower testosterone etc. I now don’t have brain fog (which also could be caused by low dopamine) but my ‘cognitive functions’ are significantly lower than before this shit. Raised appetite and social anxiety (in many studies linked to lower number of dop. receptors) complete the list i guess. Also the fact that i ‘crashed’ after three masturbations in a couple of hours adds to the credibility of this ‘explanation’.
Fasting did improve all this symptoms and this ampt treatment should be equivalent to it, if not more effective. Fasting turned out to be really big issue for me. But lack of dop. receptors could explain that.
Also, i am not proposing here some pfs theory or whatever, i am only talking about my symptoms and experiences.
Yeah, that’s exactly what i meant. Cdnuts recovered thanks to fasting, many people (me included, but my fasting periods weren’t longer than 3 days) claim it had positive impact etc. I think it is due to partly recovered receptors.
And, like i said many times, maybe there are other issues in the brain that cause pfs, but dopamine sure can be very important part of it.
And regarding the second question… well, it’s just relatively unimportant observation… Issue in the sense that my appetite became (significantly) bigger with pfs (not sure how many people here have this ‘symptom’) and during fasting i almost all the time think about food etc. It improved after (and during) these couple of fasting periods i had, but my appetite haven’t normalized yet. In a nutshell, i think i could recover if i could endure, i don’t know, 21-day-fasting. But, it is immensely exhausting and this ampt looks like very good alternative to it.
Unfortunately this forum is already full of threads and posts that haven’t proven to be very useful (like “X foods to improve libido”) and those threads act as a noise that hide the really useful stuff. For example water fasting. Maybe this extremely simple and effective treatment hasn’t yet been emphasized enough times but it should probably be the first thing to try for most people here. It’s a superb weapon that has proved to be an effective treatment/cure for many pfs victims. It can eliminate an endless list of your symptoms if you do it well.
Even if you have dopamine depletion - this problem probably has another cause, and that cause has another one… If it was only dopamine depletion then it would probably regenerate within days or weeks. But its a chain of problems for sure, the disturbance, the “storming” of a complex chemical system. What makes things worse is that sometimes this system has a rhythm too (that is adjusted to some events or your daily biorhythm). This can make the self-adjustment and self-balancing of this system even slower, and your whole life is at most only a few ten thousand days even if you live 100 years. And you are not forever young. Another problem is that the recovery rate may be zero or negative for some guys who have severe symptoms and/or terrible lifestyle. And its not hard to imagine a depressed/terrible lifestyle for people with PFS… Depressed mood is also something that negatively affects the chemistry and this whole terrible thing can easily lead into a self-generating down spiral.
Regarding your appetite: I think its obvious that people have to have their “daily dose of joy”. With PFS, its much harder (or rather impossible) to get your daily dose. A few days ago I’ve found a thread in which the first post draws so clear picture about what is it like having zero libido (even without the other endless list of symptoms of PFS): viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9016
Being devastated by PFS simply eliminates a lot of possible sources of joy from your life (even if your only symptom is low libido, and a lot of people here have basically zero). A remaining source of joy - that is probably one of the biggest of the remaining ones - is eating. Eating is a huge source of joy even for non depressed people. Many depressed people (and probably many PFS victims among these) are probably eating more than usual. I can easily imagine that weigh gain is not the sole result of estrogen dominance in case of some PFS victims.
Because of the whole previously mentioned thing I understand that performing a long water fasting may be eliminating most of the remaining joy from your life and it is VERY DIFFICULT (it is utterly boring and 2-3 weeks feels like a never-ending period of time and a depressed pfs guy may not be able to focus on other things). But keep in mind that this is one of the things that seems to be able to fix very complex chemical disturbances you have. It has actually fixed my tired and fatty body. It has improved a lott in my totally screwed up brain chemistry: eliminated or made less prominent an endless list of symptoms. I’ve been searching forums and trying things for about a year now but I’ve seen only 2 effective things in effectively curing our problems:
Short term overload of the system (like supraphysiological level of androgens - TRT or high dose HCG like in my case).
Allowing the system to enter a depleted/resting state (water fasting) and then refeeding.
The latter is probably the safer to try first, at the same time its inexpensive but definitely requires more willpower. Besides this another very-very important thing is the introduce physical activity as soon as possible. A physically active body circulates more food and minerals, and recovers more quickly in general. Not to mention that by being physically active you will look and feel better, and you can eat much more without the penalty of gaining fat.
I’m also still having brain chemistry issues but they are much less prominent than 2 months ago (and now I can sleep a multiple of 3-4 hours a day). Instead of researching (un)proven theories about dopamine, serotonin and their friends I’m thinking about the scheduling of my next water fast in the near future. There are enough threads here that prove how big waste of time and money can it be to take drugs while water fasting can address a set of complex issues together. I’m not saying that experimenting hurts, I’m just skeptic that addressing a single brain chemical would prove as a general remedy for a group of people here and most guys are probably just poisoning themselves with pills. But who knows, maybe someone gets lucky…
So yeah, water fasting is very hard. But thinking of how much shittier my life will be in the next years without women and pussies helps a lot in depriving myself of food. Thinking about the huge potential of water fasting helps a lot in engaging. And this may be negative but thinking about the most probably dark future that comes without water fasting helps as well…
First, i don’t know on what basis you claim that “if it was only dopamine depletion then it would probably regenerate within days or weeks”. According to that no dopamine related disease could ever exist.
Second, i know i have dopamine problem and that is not subject of discussion in this thread. The subject is how that can be resolved and my point is that maybe- with this drug not only there is no need to starve yourself to death, but that this drug could be (much) more helpful than that. So, i just wanted to know if anyone here had any experience with it… Unfortunately it seems like it has little clinical use…
Unfortunately this forum is already full of threads and posts that haven’t proven to be very useful (like “X foods to improve libido”) and those threads act as a noise that hide the really useful stuff. For example water fasting. Maybe this extremely simple and effective treatment hasn’t yet been emphasized enough times but it should probably be the first thing to try for most people here. It’s a superb weapon that has proved to be an effective treatment/cure for many pfs victims. It can eliminate an endless list of your symptoms if you do it well.
Even if you have dopamine depletion - this problem probably has another cause, and that cause has another one… If it was only dopamine depletion then it would probably regenerate within days or weeks. But its a chain of problems for sure, the disturbance, the “storming” of a complex chemical system. What makes things worse is that sometimes this system has a rhythm too (that is adjusted to some events or your daily biorhythm). This can make the self-adjustment and self-balancing of this system even slower, and your whole life is at most only a few ten thousand days even if you live 100 years. And you are not forever young. Another problem is that the recovery rate may be zero or negative for some guys who have severe symptoms and/or terrible lifestyle. And its not hard to imagine a depressed/terrible lifestyle for people with PFS… Depressed mood is also something that negatively affects the chemistry and this whole terrible thing can easily lead into a self-generating down spiral.
Regarding your appetite: I think its obvious that people have to have their “daily dose of joy”. With PFS, its much harder (or rather impossible) to get your daily dose. A few days ago I’ve found a thread in which the first post draws so clear picture about what is it like having zero libido (even without the other endless list of symptoms of PFS): viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9016
Being devastated by PFS simply eliminates a lot of possible sources of joy from your life (even if your only symptom is low libido, and a lot of people here have basically zero). A remaining source of joy - that is probably one of the biggest of the remaining ones - is eating. Eating is a huge source of joy even for non depressed people. Many depressed people (and probably many PFS victims among these) are probably eating more than usual. I can easily imagine that weigh gain is not the sole result of estrogen dominance in case of some PFS victims.
Because of the whole previously mentioned thing I understand that performing a long water fasting may be eliminating most of the remaining joy from your life and it is VERY DIFFICULT (it is utterly boring and 2-3 weeks feels like a never-ending period of time and a depressed pfs guy may not be able to focus on other things). But keep in mind that this is one of the things that seems to be able to fix very complex chemical disturbances you have. It has actually fixed my tired and fatty body. It has improved a lott in my totally screwed up brain chemistry: eliminated or made less prominent an endless list of symptoms. I’ve been searching forums and trying things for about a year now but I’ve seen only 2 effective things in effectively curing our problems:
Short term overload of the system (like supraphysiological level of androgens - TRT or high dose HCG like in my case).
Allowing the system to enter a depleted/resting state (water fasting) and then refeeding.
The latter is probably the safer to try first, at the same time its inexpensive but definitely requires more willpower. Besides this another very-very important thing is the introduce physical activity as soon as possible. A physically active body circulates more food and minerals, and recovers more quickly in general. Not to mention that by being physically active you will look and feel better, and you can eat much more without the penalty of gaining fat.
I’m also still having brain chemistry issues but they are much less prominent than 2 months ago (and now I can sleep a multiple of 3-4 hours a day). Instead of researching (un)proven theories about dopamine, serotonin and their friends I’m thinking about the scheduling of my next water fast in the near future. There are enough threads here that prove how big waste of time and money can it be to take drugs while water fasting can address a set of complex issues together. I’m not saying that experimenting hurts, I’m just skeptic that addressing a single brain chemical would prove as a general remedy for a group of people here and most guys are probably just poisoning themselves with pills. But who knows, maybe someone gets lucky…
So yeah, water fasting is very hard. But thinking of how much shittier my life will be in the next years without women and pussies helps a lot in depriving myself of food. Thinking about the huge potential of water fasting helps a lot in engaging. And this maye be negative but thinking about the most probably dark future that comes without KLON recover FROM K0LIBIDO
Current science knows not too much about how the body works. Most of the time docs still examine and treat your body as a black box without caring too much with most of the chemicals floating around in your body. (Are you familiar with this statement: “Everything is NORMAL.” - yeah, but what the doc means on “everything”?) This is especially true for brain chemicals. We often just assume that something is caused by altered levels of this-and-that without actually being able to prove it. Docs will probably not measure the level of your brain chemicals, and don’t care much about the density of your receptors.
Here most people probably have a screwed up brain chemistry and (among the others) a dopamine related problem. I just wanted to point out that simply dopamine related problem alone without a set of other issues probably doesn’t exist as it is a complex system of many messaging chemicals and receptors. We don’t actually know what the problem is, we work with a black box, so we need something that generally works for a lot of things. Water fasting seems to be one such method.
And yeah, starving yourself to death requires much more effort than taking a pill a day, but starving to death would probably work for much more people than a specific pill when it comes to improving our complex symptoms. It has already proven to improve the symptoms of many people and 1-2 people attribute their recovery to water fasting (and I’m not skeptic about it seeing my own improvements). I think everybody should try it. It definitely eliminates and improves your symptoms but doing a few week long water fast requires extreme effort and dedication. You won’t die. I’ve read an article that claimed some morbidly obese people doing 60 and 90 days long fasting.
The biggest problem is that 2-3 weeks of water fasting can be so unimaginably utterly boring that many people would probably rather stick 100 hcg shots at once into their ass and swallow 100 additional dopamine booster tablets at the same time spiced up with a mixture of antidepressants because it is so much more simpler and more comfortable than fasting. But that would be still much more dangerous than a water fasting and probably less effective as a lot of threads on this forum prove this statement. Even if you are experimenting with pills and other stuff you should use the healing power of fasting as a bonus. Even if a pill cures one of your symptoms I would be skeptic about its ability to undo everything ruined by PFS over the years and water fasting, eating clean, and doing physical activities can simply eliminate most of your problems. Not using a healing method that actually works is simply stupid.
Fasting proved to be extremely good at improving some of my brain related problems. About 1-2 years ago I’ve reached a point where I could sleep about only 1,5 hour each day. 3 high dose hcg shots could transform me from a total zombie into a ruined man again. I could sleep 3-4,5 and sometimes 6 hours a day with and endless list of symptoms, general fatigue and slow mind. Nothing could improve my sleep further and even that 3-4 hour of sleep was low quality and definitely not deep. I’ve tried a lot of anecdotally useful things, teas, whatever. Even 2 different kinds of pills that are otherwise mood stabilizers/antidepressants (recommended on some other threads). Nothing worked. Few weeks following the water fast I felt so much better that I couldn’t even imagine before starting the water fast. Now I can sleep 10 hours if I want, but usually 7-8 is enough. Before fasting I woke up in alerted state with high heart rate, now I wake up just like old times. Physically I feel 100% OK and even mentally except that I still don’t have my original libido. And this of course have its toll in case of a man when it comes to the zest of life and motivation. You know: a fuck a day keeps the doctor away…
So even if you are thinking of trying pills, you should use the proven tools in parallel. Although I’ve finished my fast only about a month ago I’m about to live up the food in my fridge/kitchen and do another fast to see whether it can improve/eliminate the remaining problems. I had an endless number of problems, now I can count them on one of my hands (although these problems are still definitely huge). Its funny, but over the years I got used to some of my problems so much that I could realize their existence only after getting rid of them.
I think the receptor is messed up, not dopamine being too low. The receptor should re-sensitize to the dopamine level.
Where do you get dopamine receptors tested?
I know for a fact, there is someone on this forum, that had a recovery from walking everyday for something like 4 hours a day. The dopamine receptor has been on my mind lately, and this study immediately made this recovery make sense.
Also, Chi and IHP both recovered from no carb diets (lower dopamine being released, to sensitize the receptors). Also, fasting is incredibely beneficial for the receptors, another known benefit around here.
Treadmill exercise elevates striatal dopamine D2 receptor binding potential in patients with early Parkinson’s disease.
We have previously demonstrated changes in dopaminergic neurotransmission after intensive exercise in the 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine-lesioned mouse model of Parkinson’s disease (PD), including an increase in the dopamine D2 receptor (DA-D2R), using noninvasive PET imaging with the radioligand [18F]fallypride. The purpose of this feasibility and translational study was to examine whether intensive exercise leads to similar alterations in DA-D2R expression using PET imaging with [18F]fallypride in individuals with early-stage PD. In this pilot study, four patients with early-stage PD were randomized to receive intensive exercise (treadmill training sessions three times/week for 8 weeks) or no exercise. Two healthy age-matched individuals participated in treadmill training. Alterations in the DA-D2R binding potential (BP) as a marker for receptor expression were determined using PET imaging with [18F]fallypride. Turning performance in the patients with PD as a measure of postural control and the Unified Parkinson’s Disease Rating Scale scores pre-exercise and postexercise were determined. Our data showed an exercise-induced increase in [18F]fallypride BP as well as improved postural control in patients with PD who exercised. Changes in DA-D2R BP were not observed in patients with PD who did not exercise. These results suggest that exercise can lead to neuroplasticity in dopaminergic signaling and contribute to improved function that may be task specific (postural control) in early-stage PD. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23636255
Or both - we don’t know anything. Science is at its baby steps in these areas. This is why you should rely on your body’s own healing mechanisms and allow it to work at its optimum.
I haven’t heard about any dopamine tests but I don’t believe in these tests in our case anyway. Sometimes what is important is the concentration of some chemicals at a specified part of your body. They probably won’t stick a needle into your brain and even if they wanted, they wouldn’t know where to search for what levels of what. Sounds quite odd, doesn’t it?
Walking (like any other kind of physical activity) is definitely good and healthy. But can he prove that it is walking that recovered him? What about the other factors: severity of his original condition, his genetics, his diet, his overall lifestyle,… And even if you asked for these most of the answers were subjective measures. If you recovered somehow without medications that addressed known issues then you probably didn’t know how exactly your body recovered.
The two most useful tools we can use to influence how optimally our body works and heals are definitely diet and physical activity. I also eat a lot of food that has low or zero carbs and it feels good (not only if you have PFS). Certain carbs when mixed with proteins (like potato + meat) are very hard to digest anyway (because one of them requires acidic while the other requires alkaline environment to digest). Besides this not all carbs are equal. You have to test out which ones work for you. For example for me a limited amount of daily fruits and a few tablespoons of honey through the day are still OK (I don’t feel anything bad after eating this) but I can definitely live without them. I often eat a little honey with seeds (eating seeds alone can be quite boring) and this is my favorite food when I want to eat something energy dense (before training) and easily digestible without stuffing my stomach full. It seems my sleep is also better and longer with 1-2 tblspoons of honey before bedtime.
Physical activity can be used to force your body to speed up a lot of its mechanisms and to circulate more chemicals. Pushing my limits and doing short but intense cardio incredibly sped up even my digestion and bowel movements when these were basically zero only several days after my water fast. Unfortunately doing other than short and not too intense trainings was not possible for me before my water fast because I was generally weak and heavy trainings literally made me feel sick for several hours.
Yes I know… you like to find something wrong with everything. Good job. Way to put an effort into this. A+ propeciahelp user. Would post with again. Lots of good research & ideas.
I have the right to add my opinion just like you. It wasn’t even a real opinion of mine, it was just referencing a plain fact, the truth - if you don’t like the fact and the truth then it’s your problem. Life is cruel and a lot of things are ugly and bad in this world. Some optimist people like overlooking this. Being overly optimistic indeed brings relief but only for a short period of time until realizing the unavoidable facts, the truth.
You have the right to counter my comments but you should do that in the future without starting childish personal attacks. I guess most of us have already left the nursery school and this forum is not about the game you’ve just tarted playing.
I really don’t get how anyone can know whether this guy had “real” pfs or not. Did he had major symptoms of ‘pfs’ ? Yes, and it is the only thing that matters. For me it is much more logical to assume that these guys who have recovered (in 3, 4 or whatever months) weren’t as damaged as we are, than presupposition that their short-lived pfs is of completely other sort than our condition.
Agree. But I would be curious whether PFS can cause irreversible damage to our hormonal system and where is the line.
Some hormones have long term effects. If your body is screwed up for longer periods then my bet would be that you have more chance to develop some more severe physical sides (like peirone’s, bitch tits, nerve/cns/other tissue damage, …) and a more vicious circle than you were in before.
As an addition if someone used dutasteride then it has much longer half-life and cleanup period so there is no chance for recovery in several weeks after stopping. To make things even worse a few years ago PFS was only a myth and instead of following a regime that helps recovery many guys just started waiting for the sides to go away (as recommended and promised by merck) but many guys just haven’t improved or rather went into a downspiral.
well at the first time i took fin my sides realy gone away completly after 2 weeks, but with my stupidity i took it again after 2 months, and here i am 2.5 years after still with pfs.
