Advice please

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#161

Estrogen (and DHT) come from aromatization of testosterone. Estrogen is a very strong antagonist of free or biavailable testosterone; DHT is a very strong antagonist of estrogen.

Not sure why my E level is so high. One theory is that the long term reduction of DHT has allowed to the T to E ratio to become unbalances. The question is how to swing it back in the right direction balance.

My guess is my E was high while taking fin. Pot fin; DHT began to rise in the first few weeks and then the body tried to fight that increase as it was so abnormal from the prior 10 years.

Anyway - yes the estrogen is made in the gonads but I would be careful boosting T without controlling E if you have an excess estrogen issue. What is making you change your protocol??

#162

Arimidex sux. You go too high then too low. You get saw joints, and it is a big pharma drug it really has no business being in our body.

From my breif recovery I have to say that changing my androgen to estrogen fixed, atleast for a few days. Low estrogen will kill your libido too. So playing with arimidex is too tricky.

Maybe we do have upregulated aromotaze all over the body. If this is the case, what do we do?

If my T with 0 hcg does not work. The logical next step will be to take a non aromatizable steroid along with testosterone. This will shift the androgren estrogen ratio.

ฺBut I do hope that shutting down my testicles will lower aromotazation enough so that I do not need to do this. If it did help, i would probably introduce very small doses of HCG like 40IU EOD / E3D.

You read of a lot of stories were people loose their libido after going on TRT for a while without HCG. Could this simply be that once their testicles are shut off their estrogen goes too low? Or could it be lowered pregnenolone?

At least doing this experiment will provide some insights to my condition.

#163

OK guys - here’s the big Arimidex update. First off I should just say there is a ton of bad advice on this site. I don’t think its intentional but everyone seems to view things from their own perspective only - we need to pause and look at the individuals blood results not our own before making very black and white statements. Almost everyone here said I was wrong to take arimidex and that I was taking far too much -that my estrogen would go way too low and cause huge problems. Well that hasn’t happened - yet…

January results:
Testosterone: 721 range (250-1100) good
Free Test: 106 range (35-155) OK
Estradiol: 42 range (<39 males) too high
SHBG: 60 (range 10-50) too high

Almost 6 weeks taking Arimidex at 0.5 mcg EOD
Testosterone: 1032 range (250-1100) holy crap
Free Test: 119 range (35-155) OK
Estradiol: 46 range (<39 males) still too high
SHBG: 48 (range 10-50) high but lowered

Now as anyone who follows my labs knows 720ish T is normal for me. The test prior to January was a bad shrinkage day and it was only 500 but it bounced to normal for January. But 1032 ?!? I should be picking fights with anyone that crosses me. Any thoughts on why arimidex would boost T but not lower E. I somewhat expected free T to increase as less was aromotasing but total T should not be rising like this. Also why the heck is E still so high.

Now sexually other than the first week symptoms are not drastically improved. My nuts are still small and painful, I guess there is a little less shrinkage in the frank.

Also not concentrate on hair but again my hair texture is changing - becomeing far finer, miniaturized and my scalp is burning, itching like cray. Fells like bugs crawling all over it!

Any thoughts or comments?

#164

interesting experement are, is 0.5mcg = 0.5mg or 0.05mg?

Seems as your estrogen goes down your testosterone increases to make up for the lost estrogen?

Good news you SHBG is went down. This is a pretty predictable move.

I guess you would not be feeling better really as your estrogen is still up. But you would have somre more free T.

I guess next step is to up the dose?

I guess you could always inject T, this way your levels would not fluxuate so much.

#165

What happened sexually in the first week?

#166

darn it - good catch. 0.5 mg EOD. The doc had suggested 2 mg per day which I knew was way too much. Bodybuilding sites say 0.25 mg daily or EOD; but they don’t have the high E levels I have.

First week my libido was OFF THE CHARTS - wanted to boink everything in sight.

#167

anyone?

#168

This is interesting, because the first 5 days when I was on arimidex resulted in some very strong libido. At points it was stronger than pre-finasteride. But that did not last. And I ended up with sore joints.

I was on much lower doses than you.

It seems many people are experiencing this on anti estrogens. This is a good sign. Now we need to reproduce it.

If you had kept the improvements from the first week would you declare yourself recovered?

You know robocop takes aromasin evey day. 1 full pill, he swears by this. He must have been doing it for years. He says if he stops it he starts feeling bad.

Aromosin binds to the estrogen and takes out the enzyme. So this in theory may result to less of a rebound. Your aromataze seems to be rebult at a fairly slow rate.

I suggest you up your dose, and if you get your libido back. Take a blood test at that point. Otherwise switch to aromasin. And retest. Or if you want more stable T levels you could inject T.

#169

Hey thanks for actually posting - I find so many threads on this site get ignored.

I don’t think T would be an answer. Right now my T is almost out of range. WQould suggest the arimidex is blocking conversion to E right now; yes E is high but with the T so high this is expected. Really glad my SHBG went down.

To the libido - yeah man first week I would have said CURED. Horny as all hell. I am wary of upping dose just yet - only into the beginning of month two and I have read arimidex may take 3-4 months to clear your E. First it blocks aromotase but your liver has to expel the E and I think we all have fucked livers. Plus then if you do end up going too low on E you can also have issues. Its interesting to me because the dose I am taking most would consider high and yet my E went up slightly.

#170

Yes I wrote a post her during my first week on low dose arimidex. I pretty much said I was cured.

I am now on just T alone. 27mg E3D. This has given me my enegy back and totally cleared the cystic acne that FIN gave me.

The reason why this has happend I belive is because I have shut down my testicles which are a source of estrogen.

So now my estrogen is lower and my testosterone is higher. This makes me feel better. But my estrogen is must still be relativly high as it is pushing up mu SHBG.

I do not have much luck with arimidex. I think it is hard to manage.

Aromasin may be easier, I am not sure. I prefer the idea of aromasin because it has a shorter half life so the drug is not constantly in your system. It half life is 8 hours or something I think. It binds to your aromataze and takes it out.

My plan is this.

Reduce my testosterone dose to like 15mg E3D. Add in proviron at 50mg ED. Dropping the test low should bring my SHBG and Estradiol into the optimum range and the proviron DHT will be free to act on my cells without being interfred with by too much estrogens.

I reckon this could be a much more stable way to modify our hormones.

If you are in the US proviron is not available but you can purchase stana-drol or andro hard which convert into dht.

You could also try some othe anti estrogens like formestane or the new one PES erase. But in my experience it is very hard to control your estrogens. And we really do not know how these anti estrogens work, as in which parts of the body are they most active in.

Lots of people have reported improvements lowering there estrogen. I think this is an important issue.

#171

As for the liver, I am not sure if this is the problem. Many people took the drug for just a few days or weeks and ended up with this problem. I do not think this would be enough time to damage the liver there are also many other markers of liver damage, I do not think there is much of a pattern here showing liver damage. If it was this simple, we would probably be getting better as time goes on. For me I got worse, first 2 years were pretty much just sexual problem and some fatigue, maybe a tiny bit of anxiety. After 2 years I started getting more and more pimples on my but that caused scares along with more servere anxiety.

#172

My reasoning around liver is a few of the stories where folks have gotten better using various potions targetted at liver. Also, the liver is what regulates/expels E. Only for the folks who have upregulated E and cant seem to lower the liver may be an issue. But I think it is a whole slew of issues - small issues added up and we are out of balance.

Can anyone comment on the recent bloods - has no one seen this? Surpising to me I have the tiny shrunken balls with this level of T

#173

so am I all alone with shrinkage and high T?

#174

You do realise that your tests while on arimidex indicate much higher free estrogens. This is because your estradiol has gone up and SHBG has gone down. So I would guess you felt worse?

#175

I used PES Erase, first week or so was good. Libido was better wood was great. Then lost it.

What are you doing now?

#176

Still on the arimidex protocol. I am due for bloodtests and offce visit but with work schedule I have not had time. No real change lately except my hair - fine as hell and head is back to itching like crazy.

#177

“fine” in what sense?

#178

I imagine by “fine” he meant thin. Just read through your story, scared. Glad to see you’ve had some success with various different protocols. Keep us posted on your next set of labs as soon as you get them. Looking forward to seeing them!

#179

Can you please tell us what you mean.

I am trying to work out an explination as to why we get a short recovery on anti estrogens. I am thinking it is something to do with free estrogens.

#180

Guys- sorry I have been in a bit of a holding pattern. Kind of sick of going to docs so I have not done labs or shceduled for followup. I had a torsion of sorts of the testicle and it seems better now.

Anyway - Vincent, arimidex stops the coversion of T to E in its tracks. But like I said it takes the liver a while to rid your body of the excess E. In the meantime your T rises until it hits a new equilibrium. Hence the horniness.

And yes my hair looks like shit - fine as in wispy thin.