Thank you! I’m going to add
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Who crashed on Choline?
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Choline is a methyl donor. Methylation agents are very dangerous.
Ok, but who crashed on it. Maybe each second one have Choline in his stack and never heard a crash. Maybe someone crashed but never found this. Do you know someone?
When I started choline, I lost my sensibility and never come back
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The picture “in the round” is that DIY efforts risk make things worse. You can see this as a long-running problem on our forum, sadly. People go round in loops. Eventually the smart people finally realise that they are getting no better, only worse. That is when most people truly start to back the work of our site and the PFS Foundation. When you arrive at that point - you are finally seeing reality for what it is. Our escape from this shared syndrome is only possible via team effort and consistent, persistent actions.
Accomplish the great task by a series of small acts.
- Lao Tzu - Ancient Chinese philosopher
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Good words. I don’t touch anythink since 3 months. Unfortunately, mi situation don’t get better…
I crashed on tribulus and I created new baseline.
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YES. Add also Vitamin B and Vitamin E (Konflict Docet)
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You crash on everything dude.
Meanwhile, mucuna pruriens, histidine, and choline, as well as low dose cialis, has given me tremendous, and I mean tremendous progress.
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I didn’t tried all things in the list. But I had a really bad crash on tribulus that ruined my baseline.
My first baseline was:
ED, low libido, muscle weakness, Fatigue, brain fog
New baseline, after tribulus:
ED, NO libido, penis shrinkage, incontinence, pelvic floor pain, testicular pain, no sweat, no sebus, no body odor, hair loss, low beard growth, white hair, low pubic hair growth, extreme fatigue, extreme brainfog, loss of memory, derealization, muscolar pain, chest pain, visual problem.
After three months, my situation doesn’t change.
Lot of people, suggested tribulus , They said it made big improvements. It destroyed me!
So, I think that is better don’t suggest anything, is very dangerous.
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Sorry to hear that man. Tribulus I think has been shown to raise estrogen.
I think we have to brake down the PFS guys into different groups using their blood work, as some compounds can benefit someone but harm others. Taking stuff without knowing what are you doing is not only irresponsible but dangerous. You might have success with some supplements and if others want to have the same success, they need to have identical blood work to your one.
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Choline burned me too
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yes yes yes!!!
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Small point: soy/phytoestrogens seem to have no effect on male sexuality. Phytoestrogens are called that because they’re structurally similar to estrogen, and have been observed to affect the fertility of grazing animals in the past*.
However, from Wikipedia: “In human beings, phytoestrogens are readily absorbed into the circulatory system, circulate in plasma, and are excreted in the urine. Metabolic influence is different from that of grazing animals due to the differences between ruminant versus monogastric digestive systems.”
It also adds that “A 2010 meta-analysis of fifteen placebo-controlled studies said that ‘neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable testosterone concentrations in men.’”
And it cites this link: https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.fertnstert.2009.04.038
*I’ll add that the idea that phytoestrogens affect grazing animal fertility is also contentious. Those observations were made in the 40s and 50s, and, to my knowledge, there have been no contemporary studies that have replicated these results.
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You should add vaping. I started vaping nicotine a couple months after my crash. The last time I took a puff and crashed again mentally. Never been able to fully feel pleasure since.
Why NAC?
NAC is (N-acetil Cysteine)
I think for some it’s symptom specific on why you would crash on specific supplements as well. I’m not saying to play with fire, but maybe slowly introducing things before ramping it up too high might be option.
For me I do well on zinc, when I just start I get solid hard ons and morning wood, but after a while I crash. I recently read that 50mg was too high a dose, you want it around 10 to 20 mg, I’ll test it.
I would love for the PFS foundation to solve this, but it could be a long ways away.
I’ll just say be careful with anyone who wants to try things, because we don’t know how our body’s will react. If you try something keep a journal and start with low doses.
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Thanks for you response RR3, I agree to be carefull.
The list in the original post suggest that there is a reason to believe that each supplement on it is dangerous for us. Whether it are scientific studies that show that it is a 5ar inhibitor or one or more user experiences. For most substances on the list I am aware that these are dangerous for us.
But that NAC is dangerous for us is something i am not aware of. So my question is, what the rational behind it is? Is it a 5ar inhibitor or anti androgen substance? Are there studies that showed that? Did on ore more people crashed on it? What is the reason it is on this list?
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I really don’t know why NAC is considered dangerous, I used it before and it didn’t have an impact on me one way or another.
@Apr1989 actually got well from cycling tribulus, but it might be something we need more information on, as each of us are different.
I’ve actually felt on okay on a low dose of clomid, but I can’t get it prescribed to me long term and it’s probably not ideal for it to be used long term.
This is one of the toughest mysteries to figure out. For me I know if I can get my T up I’ll be okay.