Sounds like a long shot but I’ve heard of accupuncture procedures that helps your endocrine system. Anyone ever used accupuncture with any success?
threads have already been created on acupuncture. please use the search function before starting a new thread.
I do not consider accupuncture to be a “long shot” treatment. In fact, I think that it is an excellent alternative to the kind of drug therapies that got people into this predicament in the first place…
Traditional Chinese medicine has a different way of looking at the endocrine system than western medicine: accupuncturists see it as an interconnected system where even a seemingly small change in one area can create either positive or negative effects in other areas, thereby affecting the over-all health of a person. Western medicine tends to try to isolate both cause and effect when it comes to the cause of disease and treatment options. Fiansteride is an excellent example of this mind-set: a potent substance that is tested against a limited set of observable symptoms (often just one symptom…) while very little time and attention is given to its potential negative effects beyond those that become apparent during relatively limited testing on human subjects. Serious side effects often appear after a drug has been released to the general population and is used by a much broader sample of people than is used when studying a new drug.
I have been an observer and patient of accupuncture for over thirty years. I have personally witnessed all manner of successful outcomes for a variety of conditions, particularly in situations where the patient could not find relief from western health care practioneers.
I have been paticularly impressed when accupuncture and Chinese herbs have been used to treat women who have severe symptoms from surgical or age-related menopause. The results were nothing short of dramatic, and at time in the U.S. most doctors only offered equine (horse) estrogen and synthetic progesterone hormones that often caused bad short-term and potentially fatal long-term side-effects.
I had accupuncture for testicular pain from a vasectomy. A common side-effect of vasectomy, I suffered from it for almost ten years because aside from pain medication there is no treatment for it. I happened to mention my problem to my accupuncturist during a visit and he told me that he thought that he could help me. After only one treatment my pain was greatly diminished and over a period of a year (with no further treatments) the pain continued to subside. Some seven years later I am still pain-free…
It has been recommended to me that I undergo high-dose Clomid and injectable Testosterone treatment in the hope of “resetting” my endocrine system. But I have chosen instead to do a “soft-reset” via accupuncture. (There are actually two main endocrine system accpuncture points in each ear.) A potent drug seemingly did my hormonal system great damage and I am not inclined to further shock my body by accepting a treatment that has a dubious record of success and which has worsened the condition of more than a few men.
I have had one treatment and my initial response was fantastic. Don’t get me wrong: accpuncture is often not a one-shot kind of treatment for most conditions, particularly diseases with complex etiologies and multiple symptoms affecting core physiological processes like the endocrine system. But I do believe that it is both an effective and cost-effective form of treatment that one should seriously consider.
mojo - who are you? did you even take propecia? if you did, then fill out the member questionnaire form before posting. as i’ve already stated - this thread is a repost anyway - acupuncture has been covered. also, perhaps you do not understand the complexity of our situation - I have tried acupuncture multiple times for this, meditation, lifting, etc - no relief - so while it is fantastic for preventative treatment or perhaps for helping your vasectomy, i think you are overestimating its effectiveness in our situation.
Who am I? That’s a valid question and here is the basic info: I began taking generic Finasteride on 1/29/07 at 1.25mg/day, increased the dose to 2.5mg on 6/2/08 and again to 5mg on 2/19/10. I took Finasteride on the advice of a compounding pharmacist who consults with my health care provider who manages my testosterone replacement therapy that I have been on since early 2006.
There was a concern that my high DHT levels due to Testosterone conversion might lead to prostate problems so the Finasteride was prescribed as a preventative measure. I unwittingly complicated matters by adding a relatively high dose of Saw Palemetto (320mg/day) on 5/5/10. Recent blood tests showed a dramatic drop in my Testosterone and Free Testosterone to a level reminiscent of my results when I was initially diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism, before I began TRT. I stopped taking the Finasteride cold-turkey on 7/25/10 and the Saw Palmetto on 8/28/10.
As of this writing I may not technically have PFS, since it has only been less than two months since I quit taking Finasteride. However, my symptoms and my last blood test on 9/1/10 (very low Testosterone levels with high DHT and DHEA…) indicate that I am at risk for developing PFS.
I think that I have a good understanding of the complicated nature of Post Finasteride Syndrome, having read dozens of stories here. I have also done extensive research on hormones, standard and alternative treatment options and related health issues during the past couple of years; I currently have almost six hundred medical studies and articles in my database.
I realize that I am somewhat unique on this forum in that I am a 56 year old man who already has hypogonadism and who has been on relatively high doses of Testosterone and DHEA. My hypogonadism was being successfully treated until I began experiencing side-effects that I intuitively connected to Finasteride before I ever heard about PFS. On the other hand, I might bring something new to the conversation because of my research, experience with alternative treatment options and the fact that I have kept a detailed log of all my medications, supplements, blood tests and symptoms for almost three years.
I did a search on acupuncture in this forum and I found no useful information, which is why I think that this particular thread is valid and was worth replying to since the OP was simply informed to search the forum for more information. I agree that treating vasectomy side effects and menopausal symptoms using acupuncture are not exactly the same as treating PFS. I offered those examples because they show that acupuncture can be used to treat endocrine system disorders that defy the usual treatments offered by allopathic (conventional) medicine.
I obviously cannot speak to your specific situation because hormonal imbalances are unique for each patient and often include over-looked deficiencies of non-androgen hormones such as thyroid and Vitamin D. Supplementation with one hormone can lead to unforeseen consequences that require additional supplementation or an adjustment in the amounts and/or types of external hormones being used. The use of certain prescription drugs and synthetic hormones can lead to unfortunate side effects. Western medicine tends to use a blunt-force approach when a lighter touch is definitely in order when it comes to the endocrine system. Most western doctors simply do not take the time nor have the knowledge to adequately assess patients as individuals; treating hormonal imbalances requires finesse and significant experience. The endocrinologists that I consulted were simply not up to the task; their lack of knowledge regarding male hormones was simply stunning.
And even relatively knowledgeable, experienced health care providers can make mistakes (as in my situation) which is why I encourage people to become more active in their own health care and not rely solely on what they are told during a typical 15 minute office visit with a doctor. I am encouraged by the doctors who are attempting to understand and treat PFS and I am not trying to discourage men from seeking their advice. But I think that other options should be considered in addition to the limited treatments currently available.
Getting back to acupuncture… There are two main points that I would like to make: not all acupuncturists are created equal, and I would expect that successful treatment could take weeks, if not months for some patients.
In choosing an acupuncturist to treat something as complicated as PFS I would look for someone with a LOT of experience, because the real learning begins after leaving school. I would avoid an acupuncturist who runs their practice like an allopathic doctor e.g. rigidly scheduled appointments with a set time-period for treatments. Years ago when there were no alternatives in my rural area I used an acupuncturist who used digital timers with all treatments limited to twenty minutes each. His office was run much like a typical chiropractic practice, with an emphasis on volume and patient turn-over. I assure you that is not typical: initial appointments can run at least an hour if not longer and follow-up treatments usually take 45 minutes. I have had treatments as short as 30 minutes (with my long-time acupuncturist who was treating me on consecutive days and charging me a greatly reduced rate because of the short treatments) and as long as 1.5 hours. Acupuncturists who practice in this manner set their appointments and have sufficient space to allow for longer sessions when they are necessary.
An acupuncturist who is also trained in the use of Chinese herbs is a plus, although in my case herbs are not a part of my treatment. Some acupuncturists do not prescribe herbs and in these cases they may be affiliated with a Chinese herbalist who covers that part of the treatment. “Patent” Chinese herbs may be used, but like western drugs they are basically one-size-fits-most formulations. While the herbs in pill form may work just fine for many people, individual herbal mixtures are generally considered to be much better because they are formulated for the individual patient and can contain things that are not available in packaged form. The down-sides for patients that are accustomed to prescription drugs are that raw Chinese herbs must be prepared in boiling water, they may need to be drunk several times a day, the herbs and other substances themselves can look very strange and sometimes the taste is barely palatable.
Finally, the cost… In the U.S. acupuncture treatments can run between $50-$100 per visit, with $65 being an average fee. The fee is based on the acupuncturist’s experience and where they are practicing; it is very easy to pay $100 or more in New York City. There are insurance plans that cover acupuncture, so be sure to check first, but often it is not or the range of approved conditions is tiny. (Acupuncture patients in some western European countries pay little or nothing because it is covered by health insurance.) Some acupuncturists charge an inclusive fee, while some charge add a fee for things like moxibustion. Herbs are usually extra, but in my experience even the custom formulated herbs are a bargain when compared to most prescription drugs.
A brand new acupuncturist may charge as little as $40 and there are acupuncture clinics where patients are treated in a “group” setting (very typical in China) for around $30. If you happen to live in a city with an acupuncturist school, that is another low-cost alternative and while the practitioner may be a student, he/she will be monitored by an experienced acupuncturist, so the care can be very good indeed. And cities with large Chinese populations tend to have acupuncturists that are both very experienced and reasonably priced. One of the first acupuncturists that I was aware of ran his practice in the back of his family greeting card shop in San Francisco. He would take your pulses while you sat at his kitchen table. He had a very busy practice (Taj Mahal was one of his patients…), he was very good and his fee was dirt-cheap. I suspect that such people are rare these days what with the main-streaming of acupuncture education, but it is still a good story!
I think that is all I have to offer at this point. I’ll be back when I have something to report regarding my own treatment or to respond to questions in this thread.
very low Testosterone? but you are on TRT so how would you explain this?
Also have you heared any body hypogonadal cured via Accupunture?
Did you try accupuncture for your low T before going on TRT?
thanks
sps
I cannot explain it, except it seems that the Finasteride/Saw Palmetto combo (NOT a very good idea!) affects the body’s ability to utilize Testosterone. There are a number of theories on how substances that reduce DHT affect the endocrine system.
I did a consultation with my acupuncturist when I was initially diagnosed with hypogonadism. He told me that acupuncture cannot replace what is not there, which in my case was Testosterone and DHEA, not to mention very low Vitamin D and low T3/T4 levels. My Estradiol (a form of Estrogen) was high; at one point before I began taking Arimidex I had more Estrogen than many women according to my FNP. So my acupuncturist supported my TRT. (BTW, his wife is an MD…)
In the case of the very young woman that I mentioned who was suffering from post-menopausal symptoms due to a complete hysterectomy, she was young enough that other glands in her body could be induced via acupuncture to take up much of the slack, hormonally-speaking (Estrogen isn’t produced only by the ovaries). I suspect that in older women acupuncture would not be as effective because those glands become less efficient as a woman ages.
In some cases hypogonadism can be treated without TRT. If you have secondary hypogonadism (the more common form of the disorder) chorionic gonadotrophin can be used to stimulate the testes to produce more Testosterone. The diagnosis of secondary hypogonadism is made by testing for FSH and LH. If they are low, then it is likely that the problem is not with the testes themselves, but with the hypothalamus and pituitary glands. The diagnosis is confirmed if Testosterone rises after receiving injections of chorionic gonadotrophin. It may be necessary to continue using chorionic gonadotrophin but the patient can learn to give himself injections as the needles used are tiny. As a man ages the treatment may become less effective; at that point it becomes necessary to begin TRT.
As far as my own treatment goes, I am feeling much better and my side effects appear to be subsiding. I’ll have another blood draw done before the end of the year. I want to give my body sufficient time to recover and my health care provider is going to be absent for six weeks while she has hip surgery, so I expect to wait until the end of November/beginning of December for the tests.
would you like to give update about your AP experience.?
Update on Acupuncture
I did another AP course last year from October, 2013 to November, 2013. I thought initially I was benefiting but then every thing was upside down my all of complaints got intensified. Before AP my condition was stable and even in some PMs to some members I wrote that time that I was doing better. My experience with AP is on par with Margaret ( a girl who took Saw Palmetto and suffering like us). She tried AP and reported that her condition got worse especially brain fog. She stopped after only two sessions.
1- After sides form Saw palmetto my urination was very frequent like many members here and had slowly come under control after 3 years but AP made it worse again. It remain worse even after stopping AP. Now it is better again. I stopped AP in November and I started feeling better in Jan,2014.
2- Brain got worse after AP
3- Appetite was good before AP but got worse after AP.
4- Numbness in hands, finger tips, initially decreased then increased during AP.
5- Back pain also increased.
6- More hair loss from hands, forearms, legs etc.
Being skeptical person I talked to many people at AP clinic about their experience with AP and many were very satisfied. Some people have been visiting this clinic since 1990.So there is something good in AP. Very few people(3 -4) told me they did not see any benefit so no way of treatment is 100% guaranteed.
I searched goggle and found AP cause an increase in Cortical causes Cushing’s syndrome as see here
thestandard.com.hk/breaking_ … p?id=23946
info.gov.hk/gia/general/2012 … 230528.htm
“The Department of Health (DH) is investigating five cases of Cushing’s syndrome and other adverse effects which have a common history of receiving acupuncture or other treatment provided by a registered Chinese medicine practitioner, Ma Siu Wing (the CMP), in his Chinese medicine clinic in Yau Ma Tei. ”
I also noticed Mew at one point was focusing on Cushing’s.
Will write more soon