A warning about SAMe, methylcobalamin, and high-dose B vitamins

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#8

It sounds like you were overmethylating. I would try some flush inducing niacin to reduce your methyl levels. I (think) I was over-methylating myself, peeing a lot, rumination (rumination on terrible thoughts) and feeling just suppressed. I took some niacin, got a flush and things started getting massively better very quickly.

I do have to note, though, after these methyl groups are removed your serotonin and dopamine (and whatever other transmitters) should drastically drop (as overmethylaters have elevated transmitters beyond normal function) I wouldn’t expect a full mentality back quickly. It seemed like I had to go into the outside world and re-methylate certain areas through experience. Very anecdotal I know, but it has helped. Currently I take niacin (200mg) and a b-complex for the folate. I can say I feel much better. I’m sorry your protocol didn’t work out for you, but I’ve seen people have similar results to yours as they treated themselves for undermethtylation when they were overmethylating and gave themselves panic attacks.

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#9

How many more wacky things do we have to put ourselves through …
I’m glad I’m done with all the wacky ideas myself
I’m currently looking into amino acids as some members here say its the way forward i don’t hold out much hope for it myself but it’s harmless trying though I do sometimes feel it’s pointless too as most things have been tried again and again if I was to make a list of everything I’ve tried to overcome the sexual dysfunctions the list would go on and on the only thing that works for me is Viagra the rest may as well hit the bin.
I’m getting to the point where I see that the only real option is to be persistent in asking real doctors to for help.
We can all beat our heads against a brick wall here we may stumble upon ways to help ourselves to some degree but that’s about it really.

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#10

Thanks for the advice. Not sure what was going on, but this combination of SAM-E and methyl-B12 definitely triggered an awful experience. Only took these because I figured “what could possibly go wrong?”

Over the past 3 months, I have been progressively improving from the worst of this and am back to managing 5-8 hours of sleep per night. No more derealization and my mind has been focused on less horrible topics. Frequent urination is gone but still waking at least once every night to go to the bathroom. Not totally impotent any longer. Still not quite back to baseline with any symptom though.

#11

For whatever reason, the apparent recovery ended and over the past week I am back to 3-4 hours total sleep per night. The excessive energy and derealization are gone but sleep problems, impotence, severe genital numbness, complete inability to feel pleasure or relaxation, and severe depression are back.

I will begin to feel very tired around 10pm, but can’t fall asleep for 2 hours after laying down, then sleep for 1.5-3.5 hours before waking. If I manage to go back to sleep it will only last for 90 minutes, then I’m awake again.

Never had insomnia issues before taking methyl-b12 and SAM-e and never thought it was this awful of a problem. Would trade this for the hypersomnia I used to experience any day.

I wanted this to end naturally, but looks like I have no choice but to take sleeping pills.

Just stay the hell away from this combination altogether. Many of us ask “how could this possibly get any worse?”; this is the answer.

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#12

Sorry this didn’t work out for you. To take up Down’s point, do you know if you are an under or overmethylator? I want to try this protocol myself, but think I’m an undermethylator as I have high blood histamine.

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#13

I don’t know. I don’t have blood tests for histamine levels. The thing that led me to try this was that others were reporting some benefits from SAM-e and methyl-b12, although not in combination. I also had some 23andMe indicators of insufficient production of methyl-donors.

It was a shot-in-the-dark treatment that was wrongfully assumed to be totally benign. It was total foolishness on my part.

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Vitamin B supplement causing crash?
Wellshoot's Member Story
methylation regimen
#14

All gets a bit confusing - the Walsh protocol says that undermethylators should avoid folate and B12, but take SAMe and methionine https://askdrgil.com/methylation-therapy/ but I don’t think the Amy Yasko/Konynenberg differentiate between under and over methylation… A user called Gavman on Phoenix Rising had ME after Accutane. He seems to have done well on SAMe and methionine, but badly on B12 and folate. He was advised by Konynenberg that folate and B12 might give a detox reaction, and to build up slowly.
Round and round in circles - I’m 31 years post Accutane…

#15

Dubya - perhaps looking on the bright side, a negative response might be better than no response? It at least gives an indication that you’re barking up the right tree? You’re probably aware of this paper https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.co.uk/&httpsredir=1&article=4063&context=etd - to quote from page 42: " it is increasingly important to understand the side effects and consequences of retinoid treatment, which include development of hepatic steatosis, alterations in blood lipids, impaired methyl group metabolism,and depressive symptoms. Seems fairly authoritative?

#16

I also tried SAM-e (400mg) for about a week or two and experienced very similar effects, the most notable being feeling wired and completely detached from reality. One thing that I experienced that you didn’t list, however, is that I got extreme stomach cramps (I suppose this is due to the increase in serotonin production), and this is what made me decide to stop. After I stopped I crashed for about a day or two, and I went through the worst depressive episode I’ve had since actually being on Accutane.

Despite this, I still wanted to experiment with SAM-e more, so I got a lower dose (200mg). I’ve taken 4 doses so far (taken every other day though), and have had a much better response. I have more motivation and energy and definitely more clear thoughts. The stomach cramps have not occurred once, too. Unfortunately my sexual sides are still worse off after my trial with the 400mg tablets.

After this post I’m hesitant as to whether or not I should continue experimenting with SAM-e though.

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#17

@johnniehaz: There has been some evidence over the years of a trend toward global genomic demethylation during treatment with vitamin-A and analogues of vitamin-A. This is in contrast to what was reported in the SAM-e paper (no significant effect of retinoic acid on genome-wide methylation).

FYI: That paper wasn’t peer-reviewed or published. Just a thesis paper on record. Interesting to read though.

31 years? Truly sorry to hear that. I hope you weren’t affected severely and have been managing well.

@BearOf17: I truly believe it was when the methylcobalamin was added that my new problems began.The SAM-e felt like it didn’t have much of an effect by itself (maybe a little additional energy and uplift in mood), and I have taken high doses of cyanocobalamin (B12) in the past for increased energy without trouble.

#18

is this some kind of a global dna methylation protocol?
is the combo of sam e and b vit a combo used for inducing methylation?

tnx

#19

Wait… does this mean taking Vit B12 and Vit E is bad?? even in small amount??

I don’t understand

#20

This doesn’t have anything to do with vitamin E. I took extremely high doses of B-12 (methylcobalamin) as an oral supplement, in combination with SAM-e, and developed horrible insomnia and worsening of nearly all PFS/PAS symptoms. I was also experiencing derealization and complete impotence during the worst of it. This lasted for over 3 months after I quit taking them and I am still not sleeping right or feeling right. Doing much better now though. There were also a couple guys on solvepfs who also had a terrible reaction to high-dose B12.

Small amounts of B-12, within recommended daily values, should be fine. Myself and the others were taking supplements containing up to %16,000 of USDA recommended daily values.

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#21

I incredibly worsened after Vitamin b1

#22

You can find a bunch of articles relating to B Vitamins and Methylation written by Chris Masterjohn PHD in Nutritional Sciences.

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Melcangi study and Methylation treatment?
#23

Wow, I might have fucked up with the methyl B12. I totally forgot about this thread. After reading about B12 as a way to treat delayed sleep phase disorder, I started taking 2000 mcg these past two days and today I woke up only after 2.5 hours of sleep and no longer have any sleep drive for the day.

As a bonus, I’ve also been taking a tablespoon of raw cacao nibs for the past three days, too. I didn’t know that chocolate/cocoa was anti-androgenic and I took a brand that’s very high in polyphenols. I think that also might have further compounded things to fuck me up even more. I feel so scared now.

Have you recovered from this as of now, Dubya_B?

#24

So is a super b complex okay to take? I just started taking one yesterday and I feel like my sleep is more fucked than normal but I’m not sure

#25

Please stop now before you go too far to turn back. This is how it started for me, and no, I haven’t fully recovered yet. Still having trouble getting more than 5 hours sleep most nights. It is better than the 3.5-4 I was getting though. Most of the other parameters, like total ED and horrible derealization have almost resolved.

It’s your call. I didn’t feel right for a couple days after taking a high-dose B complex that one of my ex’s was taking daily without problems. Just be very cautious messing around with this.

#26

with mehtylcobalamin, you are hyperventilating even more ( silencing even more what is already silenced)

Effect of cobalamin derivatives on in vitro enzymatic DNA methylation: methylcobalamin can act as a methyl donor.

The key is all the way around we need Demethlyliation to reactivate the gene that is silenced.
Methylprednisolone are going to do the job a the correct dosage and protocol.

There are compounds like cumming that are demethylating agents but block DHT, we need demethyliation without suppress DHT

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next a stupid guy...but i believe...
#27

Do you think NAD+ is safe? I know it has some b3