A new member, not sure if my symptoms fit in - help me out here people!

Member Stories
#41

the liver tests most likely won’t show anything wrong since your only problem is sexual and not anything more than that.those tests check for hepatitis and cirrohsis and you would feel much worse than you do now.i did a liver test that showed what was wrong , you need to look through my old posts to find out.

of course this discussion is meaningless until we find out your bloods , there could be something that stands out like an anorexic at weight watchers.my point is my problem was discovered to be because of the liver (i took saw p for about 3-4 weeks) and kemangd was also found to have this problem.

don’t listen to kirrabeachbum as he never had sexual sides.the comparison is not applicable , propecia may never have caused him the problem in the first place.it could easily have been an iodine deficiency that may have manifested itself even without him taking propecia.

#42

im saying that part of the livers job is normalising hormones
this one might be worth a shot if your E is high

canarys-eye-view.org/supplements/caldg.html

Calcium D-Glucarate

Detox aid

Calcium D-Glucarate assists the detoxification pathway of glucuronidation, part of the Liver’s Phase II system. Many substances that would normally be detoxified through other pathways first, will nevertheless eventually be cleared by glucuronidation, although it’s slower than they are when they’re working right.

Removing excess estrogen

This supplement specifically helps the body excrete estrogens — a vital need in our environment which is so full of xenoestrogens, chemicals that act as estrogens in the body. (For example, phthalates: the chemicals used to keep plastic flexible. Does the smell of vinyl bother you?)

* Sherry Rogers, MD on Cal D-G:
      o "Calcium-D-Glucarate: The Newest Breast Cancer Prevention" from Let's Live magazine, August 1998
      o Stop Breast Cancer in its Tracks, an editorial at The Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients. 
* Rogers focuses on this supplement as a means of fighting breast cancer. But there's a lot more damage being caused by xenoestrogens besides breast cancer.
      o For me, the problem seems to be exactly the same as from exercise, or food I can't handle: my liver can't handle the load it's being asked to break down & excrete. (See The Liver's Role)
      o This problem became much worse for me after menopause.
      o In addition, deformed genitalia in animals exposed to pesticides are pretty much agreed to be from xenoestrogens; and many researchers also feel the dropping sperm counts in men and the decreasing age of puberty in girls are due to estrogen-mimic chemicals. For more information, see Endocrine Disrupting Chemicals.
#43

I had a look at your old posts, and there’s some pretty interesting stuff there. Did you pretty much isolate it to a liver dysfunction? And have you had much progress in treating it?

In my case, I suppose it could be the liver, but I’m going to pursue the hormonal approach for the time being. If my hormones are playing up - too much estrogen, too much SHBG, or whatever - then that might be CAUSED by a liver problem, and then it’ll be worth investigating. On the other hand, it could be any number of other things as well.

#44

i isolated it to a liver problem in that out of the 50 or so tests i have had done that was the only one really out of range.

the only luck i have had treating it is my itchy skin and skin rash have gone away which is a relief.my body would itch all over during hot weather of during exercise.the constant brain ‘fuzziness’ (feeling like i am slightly drunk all the time) , low sex drive and some digestive problems are still there.i think the main problem is i eat meat twice a day which stresses out the liver and gives you too much omega 6 fats.i need to eat less of that and more fruits/vegetables/grains all the boring stuff.

#45

Absolutely. The typical Western diet does have far too much Omega 6. In fact, I’ve seen various studies indicating that eating meat regularly - not just red meat, but meat in general - has a detrimental effect on health. There’s a famous book called ‘The China Study’ you might want to check out for this.

As for curing it, I suppose apart from seeing a specialist the best thing you can do is try and find a liver detox diet and stick to it. Perhaps certain supplements can help also. Like I said earlier, the liver’s quite an amazing organ in many ways, and has the potential to regenerate from very damaged states.

Gim

#46

so,THE-RUFFNECK… Did u ever try Calcium D-Glucarate for ur liver?..are u going to?

#47

no , i gave up supplements.they usually make my throat sore and make me tired etc.i’ve spent too much money on them as well over the past couple years.
the only supplements that were any good for me were
barleygrass powder
maca powder (was good for libido/erection)

#48

My blood tests have come back. Results are on the link before. I’m not sure if they’re normal or not!

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … 2148#12148

#49

what can you say
it looks perfectly normal

#50

[quote]
Estradiol came back as <46 pmol/L (range was up to 191 pmol/L). Again, in American measurements I believe this would be 12.5 pg/ml. Again, this was marked as normal.

I don’t get it, did your doctor test for total estrogen or Estradiol?

If the calculation correct having 12.5 pg/ml of Estradiol is consider
to be low. Most male will have a better libido when estradiol is between 20 - 30 pg/ml.

I have read a few cases when the ed and lack of libido is due to
too little estrogen in their blood. Please do some research on

health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/
or
forum.mesomorphosis.com/sitemap/f-9.html

Again to be sure, It is better for you to have another test for estradiol
and total estrogen (do the test in different lab for comparison)

This could explain why you are feeling well on Saw Palmetto, because
it reduce the amount of Testo that is converted into DHT therefore
the available testo will be converted into estrogen by Aromatase enzyme.

However i personally don’t think taking Saw Palmetto is a good idea
because of the important of DHT in our brain (saw palmetto inhibit
both type 1 and 2 alpha reductase enzyme).

IF and only IF it is confirm that you do have a low estrogen level,
There are other ways to increase your estrogen preferably by applying
estrogen cream (this could be in form of estrone, a weak estrogen) and
see if it produces the same good effect feeling for you. Don’t
use to much as it can supress your LH and FSH.

#51

Hey Kemangd,

I was surprised to be tested for estradiol as well. The doctor wrote down estrogen on the form, but the lab ended up testing for estradiol. Bizarre, but that’s what happened - and it’s a good thing imo.

I agree the levels are low. I’ve had a read of some of those forums and people are indeed reporting similar symptoms with this problem. I’m going to try and get tested for more stuff (free test, SHBG, possibly full range of E’s, DHT, finally LH and FSH). Something else might show up on these, but in any case the low estradiol could alone be causing my problems.

I may also try and get referred to an endocrinologist. I need someone with more knowledge in this area than my doctor.

Still, at least it’s progress I suppose. I’ll get to the bottom of this eventually, it’s just a matter of how long it takes, and how much more of a toll it takes on me mentally. Without forums like these, I don’t know how I’d be able to solve this!

#52

Update:

I’ve just come back from a very unproductive meeting with the Doctor. He’s essentially made his mind up that all this is psychological. I explained that, if it was, I’d still be waking up with morning erections, and certainly wouldn’t have lost them for 2 months. He said that this isn’t the case, and that he knows what he’s doing.

All I got was a blood test for SHBG, and through that I can get some idea of what my free testosterone level is (bizarrely, the local lab doesn’t offer a free testosterone lab test). But it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere other than that, and unless free testosterone comes back catastrophically low it’ll no doubt be classed as ‘normal’.

I can’t get a referral to an endo, because my Doctor is convinced there isn’t a problem. I pointed out that my estradiol is actually below range, and that most labs would have a lower as well as an upper reference range. But since my tests didn’t have this, I was told that this was bunk as well. If I had zero estradiol in my blood, he’d still be telling me I was fine. It’s just ridiculous.

I feel very, very helpless right now. I don’t know what SHBG will come back as, but I expect that - even if it’s in the high range - it’ll be classed as OK.

The problem is, my hormonal results aren’t completely normal. My testosterone, while OK, was very low in the reference range for my age. Estradiol was off the scale on the low-side. And yet I can’t get so much as a referral.

Now perhaps I’m making all this up, the changes I’ve felt in the last two months are just nothing, and the fact that I’m waking up with no morning erections, have no nocturnal erections, and have no spontaneous erections is just a coincidence. But perhaps there’s a genuine problem.

The problem is, if the latter is the case then I don’t have much of an avenue for getting help anymore. The way the National Health Service is structured here, if you can’t get a referral, you can’t get a referral. And I don’t have the cash to see a private specialist.

So I’m at a bit of a loss right now. I thought about throwing in the towel with the health system and treating this myself, but it’s too risky and ultimately I don’t have the resources for that. I also don’t want to try and treat something when I don’t yet have a full hormone panel.

So what am I planning to do? For now, I’m going to have to try and live life as normal as possible, get some viagra as a backup, and generally carry on with things as much as I can. If my SHBG comes back abnormal, then great - I can get a referral. If it doesn’t, at least I have another element of my blood profile together.

Assuming the latter, when I get some money together (hopefully some time in April) I can book a set of blood tests privately. The test costs £365, and I might need to take out a credit card to do it, but it’s quite comprehensive. It will test for testosterone, free testosterone, SHBG, estradiol, FSH, and LH. For good measure, they also take a sperm sample, and they measure TSH, T3 and T4 also. It might not be everything, but I consider this a fairly comprehensive panel.

And if these come back normal, then I’ll have to discard the idea that I have a hormonal problem. But if they don’t, then I’ll have enough evidence to go in and challenge my doctor’s theory that everything is OK, and from that I’ll hopefully be able to get a referral. And if I can’t, at least I’ll have a solid basis from which to treat myself.

Still, I’m not in a good way, and I’ll take any advice I can get right now. If anyone’s get any other ideas to help me out of this situation, they’re most welcome.

Cheers again,
Gim

#53

dont waste your money on any supplements until you get any more results
except for maca and viagra
maca is a good libido booster/erection booster (natural) and viagra well… it’s better to pop a pill than have the shame of going soft in the middle of sex.it’s a short term solution but long term mental wise it makes sense.

#54

You might want to consider Horny Goat Weed as a natural alternative to Viagra… although its obviously not as strong, it has far less chance of side effects.

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=875
propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2140

#55

Thanks Mew, I might well try that. Does it have a short-term effect like viagra? Or is it something you’d take in the morning to improve functioning all day?

Assuming I can get some money together and do the blood tests in April, I’m going to avoid supplements until then. I want to get as accurate a reading as possible.

Gim

#56

Short term effect.

You take it 1-1.5 hrs before sexual activity; results last ~ 4-6 hours.

Best taken on empty stomach with carbohydrate drink (grape juice).

In link provided, I did a mini-review.

#57

Hey Mew, I just scrolled down and had a read of your review. Sounds like it’s worth a shot. I’m going to get myself some and I’ll post an update with how it goes.

As long as I can maintain more or less normal sexual function, I’ll be able to keep going without totally despairing. A major part of this is learning to cope with the symptoms without destroying yourself mentally, since it seems to take so long just to find out what the problem is (let alone find an effective solution).

I’ll keep you folks posted on what happens.

#58

Just to clarify, Mew, does L-Arginine have a similar, short-term effect? Have you had experience with this as well?

#59

L-Arginine increases Nitric Oxide production which helps trigger erections.

Most studies I’ve seen say you need to take it daily (1-3grams), empty stomach, and for a few weeks to see benefits. Adverse effects from longterm supplementation I don’t think are known, longest study I have seen is 6 months.

L-Arginine supplementation is not advised in people who have heart attacks or heart issues.

#60

Update:

Hi again everyone, just a quick update on my situation. I had my blood test for SHBG taken today. I should get the results sometime next week. I’m on holiday for two weeks from next Tuesday, however, so I MIGHT not find out the results until somewhat later.

Symptom-wise, I’m experiencing pretty much the same as always and if anything things are worse rather than better. Libido is 0-5% most days. Erections are never spontaneous, take a long time to arrive, and result in at best quite, well…watery ejaculations. Also, I swear my balls are smaller than they were half a year ago - although there’s no way to objectively tell.

Mentally, I have a series of similar symptoms to others on here, but I believe these are more a result of hormonal deficiencies and/or the resulting depression from my symptoms than any kind of legitimate ‘brain fog’.

My current plan, assuming my SHBG levels are within the ‘normal’ range, is to do a full hormonal panel privately in April (testing a range of sex hormones, as well as thyroid and a sperm count). This should give me some idea of what’s going on. If there’s a clear abnormality, I can go back to the NHS doctor and say “behold! take me to the endocrinologist!” If, on the other hand, everything’s ‘within range’, I can at least have a better idea of what’s going on.

My current theory is very vague indeed, but I believe I may have had a fairly long-standing problem. I had some symptoms three years ago…even at 18 my drive was remarkably low for my age (I thought this was “just me” at the time). As I’ve said elsewhere, on saw palmetto I had a much higher sex drive than at any point before, and it’s only since coming off it that I’ve crashed to these current and unprecedented lows.

I’m still hopeful I can get out of this, since I know from my experience on SP that my body CAN feel normal in the right circumstances. I’m aiming to eventually get the supervision of a proper endocrinologist, but if this isn’t forthcoming I’ll be willing to tinker and experiment a bit like some on this forum have.

I’ll update again in a week or two. Take care people,
Gim