8 years - still suffering badly - my thoughts on dopamine

Symptoms Neurological
#1

Who said here before that the mental problems generally clear up first?

Not for me - they are the worst aspects. I was on the old Yahoo forum but have been away for a while.

Mental fog, short term memory loss, impaired cognition (eg. planning), slurred speech, loss of motor control, etc. etc. These have stayed long long after the sexual side effects got a bit better. I still have little libido but no problem with erections - although they are not as large as before. But i wouldnt care about his if i could just think properly. If i did not own my own business then i would be unemployed now. I am totally useless and have problems getting any complex task done. I cannot remember anything.

People who have normal memories and planning function just do not realise the hundreds of times each day we use this brain power. Like now, i am trying to construct this post but am having to read back a sentence before to remember what i wrote and to make sure i have not repeated myself.

Finasteride has completely ruined my life. I cannot beleive it is still available to take. Only took 0.25mg for a few months and gave up. Had all the classic symptoms of a non-responder. weight, body hair, spots and greasy ski, libido. that si why i gave up.

What is most cruel about this predicament is that i cannot find the strength to read through all these posts and become an expert. I find it so depressing. I have fought so much years ago and i am just tired now. I am so tired of no doctors recognising this (except for Duncan Gould) but he is expensive as he is a GP with a specialist interest. He never really helped much - just liked to nod along.

Funny thing is, i am actually a qualified pharamcologist and so should be capable of deciphering all this but i just cannot handle all the twists and turns.

One thing that worries me about this forum is the discussion of use of new powerful regimens including drugs like tamoxifen. Haven’t we all learnt our lesson? All these drugs have side effects. I just do not think i can take another battle.

I have had various blood tests and my profile is ‘normal’ but of course i nver had a pre-finasteride test. I just know that my T levels are low for me because i can feel it.

DOPAMINE - someone on here suggested a dopamine agonist - i am interested in this. I am thinking that Dopamine might be the answer we are looking for. This has the crucial role for fine motor coordination, motivation, short term memory, energy and emotions like sexual desire

What is the thinking on Dopamine use. Has anyone here tried that - what effect did it have.

#2

I am feeling mentally better now that I’ve been taking dostinex/cabergoline (which is a dop.ant. if I understood correctly). If your prolectin is eleveted, try it. You don’t have much to loose. It should not have major sides (sound familiar ?).
I too have been researching a fix for 5 months and can’t find one.

#3

I’ve just started taking Deprenyl at 2-3 mg a day, apparently it helps raise T levels in some men according to Dr. Shippen (Testosterone Syndrome) as well as Dr. Cohen, there’s a relationship between dopamine and testosterone. Deprenyl is an extremely safe drug and has been studied for many years hence my choice to try it out. It also helps with memory and is recognized as a brain enhancer. I’m hoping it will begin to work on my hypothalamus so it can start activating my pituitary to send LH, I’ve been diagnosed with tertiary hypogonadism. I’d rather work towards my problem in this manner initially rather than jumping into injections for HCG or T replacement.

#4

thanks guys - do you think dr shippen would consult by email? if i was to have tests done here. Seriously i am feeling quite severly depressed and i do not have the emotional energy to fight the system. i am so frightened of being let down. I am sorry for being negaitve - i wouldn’t lay this on the group if i was not genuinly feeling desperate. I cannot focus at all on anything and am beginning to wonder what the point it.

Thanks for your drug recommendations. Where would i go about getting those. And do you have to take for life? And is there a possiblility of getting a negative/positive feedback reaction.

thanks, toby

#5

Toby, I would advise you to get bloodwork as outlined on this site first before you do anything.

And since you’ve been suffering for 8 years, yes, I would try and see Dr. Shippen to see what can be done.

#6

I called Dr. Shippen’s office a few weeks ago and the secretary mentioned he’s not seeing any new patients at the moment including those with underlying problems brought on by Propecia. She asked me to try back in February. Toby I would definately begin with a thorough blood work as Mew mentioned as it’ll provide some clues or outright diagnosis of what your problem might be. I’m taking Deprenyl because I’d like to see if it helps my condition before jumping into more serious measures such as TRT as well as knowing my not so progressive endo wouldn’t be up to trying anything like this. International antiaging systems is the most reputable of offshore pharmacies, many progressive doctors such as Dr. Ward and Dr. Cohen are affiliated with them, they’re based in the U.K.

#7

Ok - i will go and get all the blood tests done - can you tell me which ones or direct me to the posts which detail that.

Also - looking at the IAS website. They are based in the UK but they do not ship to the UK or EU. Do you know if there are any other suppliers that ship to UK

thanks,

Toby

#8

I suggest you read the FAQ at top of this site for starters, I know it must be hard for you to process information due to your condition, but many of your questions will likely already have been answered by others in previous posts. Also, there is a search function that may be of use (top of site).

Hormone tests are listed at top of HORMONE & BLOOD TESTS section.

#9

Toby I would advise seeking a diagnosis first before jumping on any drug cycle. To answer your question I don’t know although I’m beginning to question the quality of Deprenyl out there including the stuff I ordered from IAS, I’ll be investigating this for the moment.

#10

8 years??? shit…I am fucked I guess…

#11

Im righ there with ya.

#12

There has got to be some recovery. Okay, if my arm was cut off, I might not grow another arm. But blocking hormones seems like something that logically would come back to homeostasis at some point. I believe I’ve read that the 5AR enzyme is able to regenerate in the studies here. If that’s the case, they should continue their pre finasteride function of converting T to DHT and what not (allopregnanolone, etc.). So if many of us are still having problems, the finasteride has still got to be present binding many enzymes. I don’t see any other explanation.

#13

Yeah I hear ya… I mean my body has been improving I guess. It seems it is going through different stages to recover cause I get weird symptoms out of no where that I never had before and then there gone after several days. None of them persist. My brain fog is practically gone and Im just suffering really from the fatigue right now and a little bit of depression. I just dont feel like myself personality wise. I am better from being numb 6.5 months ago so hopefully in another 2-4 months I will be back to normal.

The guy Toby that has been suffering for 8 years hasnt post in about a year so he could possibly be doing better. I know post like that make us think that oh shit am I going to be like that… when were all different and we really dont know. It just sucks cause it takes away hope.

#14

I was on here for a while, on the old Yahoo group, and not a frequent poster anymore, because reading the mounting numbers and problems triggers the anxiety that I (now) have (thanks to propecia)

Not to freak you out, but there’s a chance that the damage this drug has done is PERMANENT. In a real, physiological sense.

Studies that were done (I think they are linked elsewhere on the forum) show that finasteride works to shrink prostates. You know how? By triggering cell death. This means:
a) It will trigger cell death in prostate cells even in healthy prostates
b) It COULD be triggering cell death in other parts of the body

Now, some parts of the body are very good at regenerating and recovering (like the liver) – but not all organs are. On top of that, it’s still unclear (as far as I know), what triggers the cells to die due to finasteride. It’s possible that fin activates the natural cell-death process. If that is the case – if it has done a bit of genetic splicing like that – then any cells that regenerate would likely be wired for premature death, as well.

Now, my anxiety and brain fog have subsided a bit. My condition fluctuates. A year off the drug and I was feeling on top of the world. 6 months later, big panic attacks. A year after that, feeling relatively okay (still can’t drink much caffeine or alcohol, though, or it will trigger me to feel really horrible)

However, some things concern me – and could be related to permanent cell death or non-regeneration:

  1. My hair is thick and is not falling out. It definitely was before I took fin. So it DID work. My worry is that, perhaps, it destroyed my prostate or adrenal or hormone glands to an extent that I simply DON’T create DHT anymore.
  2. Perhaps related to that… I have been getting strange growths on my scalp. Like, bumps and lumps and scabs. I never had those before in my life. And more and more seem to be appearing.
  3. I have pangs in my right abdomen right under lower ribcage. This is the liver/biliary area. My liver test showed up elevated in the past, but has checked out normal since laying of of the drug, and they even did an ultrasound which seemed okay. So, I’m not sure why I have those aches. But I’m pretty sure it’s not in my head.

Anyway, this is a bit of conjecture based on my own experiences and on the studies I’ve read, but the unfortunate truth is that it is POSSIBLE that fin permanently altered or damaged cell-death, cell-growth, regeneration, etc. More studies would have to be done to find out (shame people don’t seem to be bothering with that. Why? because the big money is proving that something is “good for you”… not the opposite)

#15

This was what I was referring to: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8636309 Evidence for Atrophy and Apoptosis