6 oxo....what happened?

Therapeutic Efforts Supplements & Lifestyle
#1

New sufferer here. Started the rat poison about 3-4 years ago. Initially, I would take fin maybe once or twice per week. Sometimes I would miss a week or two. Then sometime in 2005 I noticed increasing hairloss so I decided to take my 1mg every day. Almost 6 mo later I started noticing sides of brainfog, word salad, depression, ED, premature ejaculation, etc… Stopped the fin in April 2006. SX did not improve, but were not overwhelming at that point. Again I noticed increasing hair loss so I decided to restart the posion at only a mg here and there. SX continued to progress and in December of 2006 I stopped.

I decided to try 6 oxo at that time to see if my sx would improve. It appeared to be a miracle. For almost 4 weeks I felt like I was 21 (currently 38). My libido, ED, brainfog, depression and every symptom that I had disappeared. I was only taking 1 or 2 pills per day. And then it slowly started to fade away. Currently, my ED has never been worse. Anxiety and panic type sx have improved. Brainfog and fatigue persist. I will be getting my blood work Friday.

Has anyone else responded like this to 6 oxo, arimidex or tamoxifen?
Is there hope for me? This truly is a living hell. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. Best wishes, flaccid

#2

Your blood results may help to explain how you have been affected.

It is important to get copies of your resulst and reference ranges.

Copying what I have already wrote elsewhere- you need the following tests;

You need;

LH
required to assist in diagnossi if testosterone s low

FSH
LH is less reliable than FSH unless pooled and FSH tallies with LH values

SHBG
Crucial in evaluating free testosterone when only total testosterone is tested. Imprtant even when free testosterone is tested when evaluating estradiol levels.

Total or serum Testosterone
Primary male androgen in the blood

Free Testosterone
Get this tested if possible, free testosterone is the portion of testosterone that your body can actually use that isn’t bound in the blood to SHBG or albumin etc

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT)
This is a potent androgen that is important when it comes to libido, erections and drive and sits on the scales alongside other androgens like testosterone in the androgen to estrogen balance. A lack of it, like a lack of testosterone can also result in the development of gynecomastia.
A lack of DHT equates to hypogonadism even if testosterone is normal. Given that finasteride’s principle mechanism of action results in lowered DHT levels; having hormone pathology without testing DHT is the equivalent of investigating the cause of lung cancer whilst ignoring the fact you smoke cigarettes.

Estradiol
The most potent estrogen in the body, in basic terms at elevated levels it acts against the actions of testosterone in the male.

Prolactin- just to ensure you don’t have a problem relating to a pituitary issue.

Some people believe in testing for thyroid and adrenal issues as well. If this is something that concerns you, you should also test for TSH, free T4, free T3 and 24 hour urinary cortisol.

You need to have these tests taken between 8-11am.

If you are living in a country with quite strict interpretation of male sex hormones such as the UK, or Australia etc and think you could potentially have boarderline testosterone levels, then you would certainly prefer a test closer to 11am. Results at this time will be a little lower than those you would have if tested earlier and this could make the difference between being diagnosed with a problem and being able to obtain treatment and being told you are fine and being refused treatment.

You probably know all this from reading the site, but I though it better not to presume as much and make sure you had the information.

#3

What is 6 oxo?

#4

It is a “home brew” drug that was made by a dodgy biochemist in the bodybuilding world. It is sold to bodybuilders via quack websites to combat estradiol.

It has ZERO approved medical uses.

#5

and what are the difference between 6 oxo and arimidex :question:

#6

I read on a couple of message boards that its a natural occuring aromatase inhibitor. Because I was feeling like total crap I thought I would give it a try since it was “natural”. Home brew or not it had a tremendous effect on me although it only lasted 4 weeks. This was not a placebo effect because I was getting significant wood. Wood in the morning, noon and night. Brainfog almost completely gone. Intereactions with people markedly improved. More energy and more talkative. A problem I was having which resolved and is now back is a great deal of difficulty in clearing my throat. Voice pitch all over the place. My vocal cords almost feel weakened.

Well after 4 weeks and a few days of feeling absolutely wonderful I crashed and now I probably feel as lousy as ever. Feeble erections if any at all. And a great deal of mental distress over all of this.

The one ray of sunshine that I gleaned from this is that I can be myself again. Everything can work fine but I need to find the right combination. I was me again and it was a wonderful thing.

Hypo, I noticed that 6 oxo increases ESTRONE. I have read that estrone can be stored away and later on be converted into E2. Is ESTRONE considered a “bad” estrogen. My hope is that a proven aromatase inhibitor in a combination type therapeutic regimen will work for me depending on my labs, of course.

This is a link to an article.

ergopharm.net/images/6oxo_incledon.pdf

#7

Arimidex is the brand name for Anastrozole which is an aromatase inhibitor. It reduces estrogen in the blood and in particular the potent estrogen estradiol.

Arimidex was has been developed by the pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca.

It has taken MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars, ENORMOUS TRIALS in both animals and humans lasting YEARS to develop the drug and prove its efficacy and obtain a primary license so that it maybe used in HUMANS!!!

6 OXO has ZERO medical uses, has NOT passed any license for use in humans. It has been developed solely for the bodybuilding community to be sold off dodgy websites as a supplement. It has not passed ANY medical trials at all…NONE!!!

AstraZeneca had to spend MILLIONS and MILLIONS to prove their drug was safe for people.

If you think that there was no need for them to do that and that there is no need to have such trials to prove safety and efficacy then by all means use this moonshine medicine.

I do not say that it does not work, it is in fact supposed to act as an aromatase inhibitor and I am sure it does do that.

If a man’s problem is elevated estradiol, then it may reduce estradiol and in doing so relieve symptoms.

But most peoples problems post finasteride are not caused by elevated estradiol, for most men it will not help.

Furthermore why would you self medicate something with no proven safety record?

Do you think that pharmaceutical companies spend millions of dollars in trials to prove safety and efficacy for a laugh?

If you are concerned at all about short and long term safety and of potential problems then you would not touch this with a barge pole even if estradiol was your problem.

If estradiol is the problem, something that can and should be first ascertained by pathology, then it would be far wiser to obtain Arimidex- hopefully via prescription.

Because aromatase inhibitors lower estradiol in the blood as opposed to anti-estrogens like Tamoxifen and Clomiphene (selective estrogen receptor modulators- SERMS) which do not lower estradiol in the blood but block estradiol at the receptor sites. Because of this it is possible to measure via pathology the level of estradiol to see how arimidex is working. By doing that it is possible for a doctor and his patient to ensure that the right amount of arimidex is being used to lower but not decimate estradiol levels. This is important because lowering estradiol too much causes a whole range of problems and symptomatically is as bad as low testosterone or as bad as finasteride effects themselves.

I have know many men prescribed arimidex who have taken too much and ended up with ED, low libido, thyroid dysfunction, bone pain, fatigue/lethargy etc

Because aromatase inhibitors can be quite powerful, even where they would help and should be used, where estradiol is too high;

Pathology is required to ensure proper dosing, at least it is if you want that thing in your pants to work or ineed to have any interest in it working.

flaccid,

What you need is to be off all endocrine affecting drugs or supplements for at least a month prior to endocrine pathology. Anything you take can adversely affect your endocrine results and give an endocrinologist a false impression of your health or the lack of it.

You want good accurate pathology with nothing that gives a false result. Then if estradiol is the cause of your problems then you might be able to get arimidex prescribed at correct dosages in order to properly help you.

#8

I have been off of the 6 oxo for almost 2 months now and off of fin for more than 3 months. Is this enough time for “reliable” labs? I am scheduled to get labs tomorrow or should I wait?

Your points are well taken, however, even “well tested” drugs such as fin and fen phen (and many others) can turn into disasters. Unfortunately, everyone on this board knows intimately about this. Taking this may have been less than smart but imagine the feeling. I take it for a few days and almost immediately I feel better. After 2 weeks I feel great. At weeks 3 and 4 I am back to “normal”. Thereafter a slow decline back to this low baseline.

#9

Personally I would go ahead with the tests as long as I had not been on any endocrine affecting medication or supplement for at least a month, that is just me. Of course I can’t answer for you, that is your call.

Oh I perfectly understand and trust me I am no poster child for the pharmaceutical companies. The thing is you have to be very careful here. You have to be very careful that you don’t start using very poor logic.

Mistakes in terms of unsafe drugs being released onto the market are often due to a lack of complete testing, in not testing these drugs stringently enough.

So the logic should be that more testing prior to license is what protects us- certainly not less testing.

If finasteride and everyone here is affected because of a lack of testing it would be madness to take from that that testing itself doesn’t work and therefore we will be equally as safe with no testing. That would be an absurd an unsafe illogically logical position to end up in.

Also you have to remember for every inexcusable fuck up, there are dozens of drugs that are safely released onto the market and dozens more refused licenses due to a lack of safety.

Again I understand completely and their certainly is a vexing and debilitating sad irony in what has happened.

The thing is you don’t know how or why this drug worked for you, you don’t know why it stopped working for you and you do not know how appropriate it was in terms of short or long term safety…you don’t even know whether or not you were treating a short term side effect or propecia or whether you need a medication to treat a permanent underlying problem caused by propecia.

You may think that there was pot of gold beyond the rainbow, I’m telling you there wasn’t.

As it stands you will get pathology that will give you an idea of any underlying problem. You can then get any significant problem diagnosed and treated. If you get copies of your pathology and post them here we can also give you an independent layman’s opinion. If you look as though you have a problem that your endocrinologist has not picked up I will try (others too I’m sure) to help you get a second opinion and any required treatment.

You are going to know where you stand and that is very important.

#10

How much do you think Merck spent on trials to prove “safety” of Propecia and Proscar?

“Why would you self-medicate something with no proven track record?” – Possibly because we no longer trust a “proven track record” anyway, after seeing the lies printed in the side effects section of the finasteride documentation.

According to Merck, finasteride has a “proven track record” of listing ED and decreased ejaculate as the most severe side effects, and that they go away after discontinuing the drug. Nowhere does it say you could have possibly permanent hypogonadism. Nowhere does it say you could have anxiety or panic attacks. Nowhere does it say you could sustain permanent liver damage.

MILLIONS are spent by these companies on “research” that says what they want it to say and pushes it through the regulatory (ie FDA) committees so that they can make even MORE MILLIONS by selling their patented poison. I would not have ever taken the drug if it said permanent or serious side effects were (even remotely) possible.

I’m not saying you’re wrong about it being a bad idea to take something without research and supporting reasons first, but I’m just saying – the drug companies are just as bad, if not worse. At least with supplements they say “not tested/claims not supported”, so you know it’s “buyer/user beware”… with drug companies, they claim to tell you all of the side effects and these claims are evaluated and approved by the FDA, so you figure you can trust the information and make an informed and appropriate decision.

#11

i know this is an older post, but i think i might have an answer as to why after 4 weeks of 6-oxo you went back to normal.

It is very possible that finasteride caused you to have high estradiol or high estrogen or prolactin. Seeing as how in the bodybuilding community 6-oxo is widely regarded as a very potent anti-estrogen, for those 4 weeks that you took it, it may have lowered your estrogen/estradiol/prolactin levels back to within a normal range.

Now, 6-oxo is not meant to be taken for extended periods of time. What I think happened in your case is the 6-oxo was consistently lowering your estrogen levels, and for those 4 weeks you felt great they were within range. however, you kept taking it and it eventually lowered them TOO much causing all your problems again.

Now I’ve read in one of your later posts that just 2 months later you were feeling much better again sexually. this is because since you stopped taking 6-oxo, your levels were slowly climbing back up and got within the normal range again.

I know you havent posted here in a while, flaccid, but it’d be nice to see an update on how you felt after that, and how you feel today.

just my 2 cents

:slight_smile: