Variable expression of 5-alpha reductase 2 in the aging adult prostate is regulated by DNA methylation
G. Rongbin, Z. Wang, S. Bechis, A. Otsetov, S. Hua, S. Wu, C.-L. Wu, S. Tabatabaei, and A. Olumi, Cancer Res, vol. 75, no. 15 Supplement, pp. 1052–1052, Aug. 2015.
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/75/15_Supplement/1052.short
Not promoting this as a remedy, but:
This is interesting, although for me I don’t think the 5ar enzyme is the issue, since I have tried bypassing it and supplementing DHT directly - with no real benefit.
so lets try it… please someone I need a cure asap… pleasee please please
It’s the regulating mechanism of the enzymes themselves that is missing. Administration of exogenous DHT will not fix that
…
I ran this study by Dr. Jacobs in NYC and offered to be a guinea pig if he thinks it’s plausible. His reply:
Fascinating epigenetic study. Thanks. The issue of giving you or any PFS guy TNF alpha or LPS to “reactivate” 5-alpha reductase, type 2 (? type 1 also??), is that I have no reason to think this is the problem in PFS. I would think some epigenetic aspect of the androgen receptor complex, or its down stream effects in the cell, likely hypothalamic neurosecretory cells that make GNRH, is where the money is. One question though is whether TNF alpha or LPS would help in this latter way also. It is such a new field to be manipulating epigenetic mechanisms.
Once again a creative way of saying “I have no fucking idea.” Well done, Dr.
This is really interesting. Only problem is that no doctor will test this on one of us.
Well this sort of study begs the question that if it weren’t for PFS specific studies, are there labs that can look at enzymes and receptors and comment on epigenetic and structural integrity. I’m under the impression that no, we are at the mercy of studies with control groups and study participants to uncover, but not sure.
Why not send this to a pfs researcher like melcangi. Jacobs is not going to try much more than trt on us
why is nobody talking about this? i dont know about the rest of you but im desperate as fuck for a cure. We should be trying everything we can. Ill gladly try this one. I have nothing to lose at this point.
I don’t get it.
Most of us took 5ar inhibitors for quite a long time with few side effects at all. Many men like myself grew new hair while on the drug with few sides.
Many other men were on the drug quit and were fine then went back on and later crashed.
Others quit the drug with little sides and crashed months after quiting.
My neighbor is now on 5mg of fin and he is way better off than me. I have another friend who has been on it for 10 years and he is 50 and his libido is 10 times that of me.
We know from studies DHT drops within 1 day of taking a fin but many of us feel fine for weeks or months.
Most of us do not have low DHT.
Mos of us do not have any long term improvement with DHT. In fact some feel worse.
So this kind of proves that PFS is nothing to do with systemic inhibition of 5ar. I think we can pretty much put such theories to rest at least for most of us.
Yeah this study is fantastic. We need researchers looking at 5AR and epigenetics. They may have uncovered something that will help us. And for all we know this enzyme is the root cause, but right now we don’t have a lot of reason to think so. Nothing wrong in forwarding this to docs or even reaching out to the authors of this study with questions.
I’m only a layman, but I guess one idea is that there are neurosteroids that are metabolites of 5ar and that are critically important to sexual function? Newbie_86 has suggested this is what the Italians are looking at (see: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=10015&p=97033#p97033).
Extrapolating from that…maybe it could be that PFS guys like us are more stress-prone/anxious/type-A and therefore tend to deplete these neurosteroids more than most guys…and with 5ar busted we’re unable to replenish them in ourselves? I dunno, just thinking out loud.
As I noted. Most of blocked 5ar very strongly and had almost no sides for weeks or months. Some years. Some quite many time and were fine till one day things went bad.
So this suggests that the dirrect effect of lowering 5ar in most of us is not too bad at all. PFS may be something secondary that can happen by lowering DHT or maybe the drug itself causes some damage.Do not forget mice on fin and rats on dut grew testicular adenomas / hyperplaysias pretty much randomly. And it would be assumed that this would lead to persistent hormonal changes.
So the point is even when we totally blocked 5ar most of us felt nothing like PFS.
Right, I get what you’re saying. I had pretty minimal symptoms most of my time on fin – extra sweating, some fat around my waist. But then I had a major emotional episode (got dumped) and that’s when my libido kicked out. Then, a month after that, I panicked when I made the connection to Propecia and quit – and that’s when the real hell began: plaques/fibrosis, body composition changes etc.
My point is: in my case I suspect some interrelated combination of my profound stress/anxiety/panic and the hormonal roller coaster of on Propecia and then abruptly quitting it accounts for what happened to me.
So, again, it’s why I’m thinking about neurosteroids that require 5ar for replenishment. Maybe that’s why we can go a long time without 5ar and be fine – why some can go forever and be fine, or why some crash long after quitting…because the key is when we exhaust the neurosteroid metabolites of 5ar. In my case, I did it with my freak-out over the break-up and then by panicking as I withdrew from the drug. Again, just thinking out loud…
If I understand this right this could explain why the mental stress caused your crash recent quiter. Stress triggers inflammation, also lots of people crash after a night binge drinking what also causes a lot of inflammation. So the people who get pfs would have got inflammation during taking or stopping finasteride
I’m pushing Jacobs to give this a try with me, but I’m not optimistic…
Again, all spitballing here…but maybe this could account for the Chi/CD natural recoveries on here? They embraced comprehensive lifestyle changes that countered inflammation?