2x Recovery Story - various natural supplement methods

Hi letsconvenience,

By “Jarrow’s Bile Acid Formulations”, you mean this?:

Jarrow Formulas, Bile Acid Factors, 333 mg, 90 Capsules
iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Bi … s/172?at=0
This is the only thing I have found about acid formulas from Jarrow, but it says it is bovine/ovine bile and not ox as you said.

And what brand of Vitamine B1 are you taking?.

Are you still on the same regime or as you feel great you have slowly quit?. Will the recovery last even if you quit from the suplementation?.

Thank you,

Regards.

Hi 2RFG,

Yes, you’re completely right, and I’m a total space cadet. The brand of ox bile I’ve been haphazardly recommending to people is none other than Jarrow Formulas Bile Acid Factors. One-third of a gram is quite a high dose, and because bile acid is, y’know, an acid, it’s going to cause some burning discomfort on its way out. Typically if you start to feel this burn and have very frequent diarrhea, that’s a sign that you need to begin gradually reducing your dose. (Also, ox/bovine is just a nomenclature thing, but I think traditionally it’s been called ox bile, so the name has stuck. But thanks for pointing out this discrepancy as well.)

For B1, I was taking supplements endorsed by Analytical Research Labs, which was the same place that does my hair analyses. B1 is included in their “Megapan” multi-vitamin, and afterwards I ended up taking an extra 250mg of B1 three times a day from a generic brand I found at a local vitamin store. While there are different species of B1, they don’t seem to differ that greatly, so as long as you use a brand you trust, I think you’ll be in good shape. A note of caution about B1, though: It reduces magnesium, and if you’re in later stages of finasteride poisoning, this could be enough of a deterrent for you not to take B1 altogether.

I have gradually gone off everything I am taking as my recovery improves. Currently I am taking low-dose calcium/magnesium, a multi-vitamin, a multi-mineral, ox bile, and an adrenal glandular substance (i.e. crushed up pig adrenal gland). When my program started, I was on 7 items, and now it’s 5, and with my upcoming analysis, I suspect it will go down to 3 or 4. My nutritionist has told me that after solving a copper toxicity problem, he recommends people stay on a nutritional balancing program to “restore” the adrenal glands to their normal pre-problematic functioning, and I plan on following his advice. Alex’s methodology is quite gradual and plodding (sometimes to the point that crazily impatient me has experimented without telling him and messed up a few things), but it really works.

Thanks again for your input! As always, private messages are welcome from anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable asking questions on the forum.

Hi letsconvenience,

Thank you for your reply. What do you mean with this: "A note of caution about B1, though: It reduces magnesium, and if you’re in later stages of finasteride poisoning, this could be enough of a deterrent for you not to take B1 altogether"?

I´m going to try Jarrow Formulas Bile Acid Factors and Now Foods B1. Should I also take Magnesium or not?.

Also how do you really know that the thing that gave you the improvements for brain fog, anxiety, … is Jarrow Formulas Bile Acid Factors and not for example any other adrenal suplements you have taken like ENDO-DREN or others?.

It is good that you share your experience. People may be don´t understand that we have 2 approaches for our finasteride problems:

  • Attack the causes. We still don´t certainly know what the real causes are. There are some investigations going in their way but We can´t wait 1 or 2 years or more until someone finally finds the real cause and give us the best solutions.
  • Attack the consecuences. If we find something that could help us mitigate the side effects, that is fine. So thank you for sharing with us and please keep us telling your evolution.

Regards.

Letsconvenience this is VERY interesting.

I have been telling the guys here for months about Copper toxicity and no-one’s bought it. It makes perfect sense. The high E, high Copper correlation. The fact that some guys experience full recovery when they take zinc, even if its for a short time.

I have been diagnosed with copper toxicity in the past and strongly suspect I still have it. I am currently taking zinc daily and a heavy metal chelator (doing it slowly).

I used to take Ox bile, but now take a type of acid that I think does the same thing. However I might switch back to Ox bile and see what happens.

Take this guy’s advice very seriously guys, he’s onto it IMO.

I do think there is something to this. Here is a link to thyroid problems and metal toxicity.

I will be having my body tested for heavy metals in a few weeks. I suspect the damage P caused to our livers and kidneys with bile, prevented our bodies from being able to flush this crap out of our bodies.

forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewt … f=2&t=7593

This is so true. This needs professional intervention. And anyone on these forums who doesnt take a good naturapath’s opinion seriously is severely jeopardising their chances of recovery. Hear me now, beleive me later - Western medicine has come full circle and essenital vitamins and minerals or a lack of, is going to play a bigger and bigger part of medicine. It is so obvious. Its how nature intended us to be, yet some on this forum are so quick to dismiss it.

Ive heard a guy on these forums who made a complete and full recovery by taking zinc. He even said he felt better than pre-finasteride and he said he felt quote “like a super-hero”. He then went on to say that he is too scared to continue to take zinc BECAUSE HE DOESNT WANT HIS BODY TO RELY ON IT???..wtf is going on here?

Yes zinc lowers dht to a small degree. But it is also responsible for 30% of your testosterone production (which will produce far more dht in the long run) and about 300 other process in your body. Without zinc you will not absorb other nutrients. Copper opposes zinc.

Im not saying copper toxicity is everyone’s problem here, but there are a good few who I suspect do indeed have copper toxicity. And this is nothing to sneeze at. This is HEAVY METAL POISONING.

Look into it fellas.

Mew ive thrown some comments in next to the asterixes in your response to LConvenience. I dont mean to be rude, though I know you may take offence to it. I think they are all valid points and points worth bringing up for the sake of the whole group here and our chance of recovery. You’ve done a great job putting this forum together and I appreciate it, so please dont get me wrong.

I will also add that Zinc is responsible for prostate health. How many of you guys have got chronic prostate problems? The argument for zinc deficiency/copper toxicity (they go hand in hand) is as good an argument, if not a better one, as anything else posted on these forums.

Also this is not somthing you can fix by taking zinc for a couple of days. You need to understand how the liver works. Initially you may feel like you are doing your body an incredible disservice. But this is actually the liver starting to push out the toxic substance via the bloodstream and on to the elimination process. This can take as long as it takes to get rid of what ever is in your system. How long is a peice of string for instance?

Its the same with detoxing anything from your body. As an extreme example look at the detoxification process from withrawing from Heroin. Nasty nasty stuff. As soon as the liver sees an opportunity to get rid of the toxic substance it does so drastically. But the point is, there will be an initial feeling worse before better. So often this has to be a PROCESS, ideally guided by a professional. Heavy Metal toxicity is serious sh*t…

J899 - are you j89 with a new user name or someone else?

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Hence the best way to detoxify your system, and the most natural way, is a prolonged water only fast. Liver flushes and gallbladder flushes are a fluke. They do nothing but put MORE stress on these organs. Of course you’re going to shit gall stones when you drink a cup of olive oil. What do you think happens to all that fat when it goes into your system? These are modern day snake oil, psuedo science claims, and are NOT healthy for your system.

Fasting is the best way to detoxify, with juice feasting and a raw food diet coming in a close second. Juice feasting is nothing but an extreme form of nutritional therapy. The best way to get all of your vitimans and minerals is from food, not pills. The body will actually get rid of what it doesn’t need on it’s own, without the aid of a chelation agent, in the case of heavy metals. You just have to get out of the way.

That said. I’ve done lengthy fasts several times along with juice feasting and raw foods and still have some issues. When I say I was clean, it’s an understatement. I was as fresh as a baby by the time I was done with all this. So while it may help, and it does, greatly, it’s not the be all end all for this problem. If it was, I wouldn’t be on this site everyday.

well, if its heavy metals, im pretty sure the chelation is the standardized method for their removal from the body…not trying to discredit the water thing - but perhaps adding chelation could further your results. i read this on another board:

“Mercury (and other heavy metals) are stored in muscle, pesticides are stored in fat. As you fast, you break down muscle for protein, thus increasing your circulating mercury toxins. Unless you have an effective way to bind and carry the mercury out (chelating), it just redeposits in your brain and other organs. Plus, you feel foggy headed, excruciating headache, memory lapses, groggy, etc. (ask me how I know, :down )”

Have any of you guys tried this, “Jarrow’s Bile Acid Formulations” that this guy recommends or are you thinking of trying it? I think I’m going to add it to my regimine.

Let’s convenience, if you’re reading this thread still, you mention look to B1. My recent blood test shows my B1 through the roof. It is actually flagged High. Do you make anything of this?

Problem is the “standardized” method for most things in western medicine is ass backwards. For high BP, they prescribe meds. For high cholesterol, they prescribe a statin, etc. Problem is your body doesn’t have a statin deficiency. You just need to stop doing the things that are giving you symptoms in the first place. Most, if not all of the common medical problems today can be simply solved with lifestyle changes, and biggest offender to this, is diet.

As far as what this poster says, I can attest, having done three fasts of up to 21 days at a time, you get these symptoms as general detoxification begins whether you have heavy metal issues or not. When your body is unencumbered by digestion, which uses almost half of your energy production, it knows what belongs there and what doesn’t and it jumps on the opportunity to “clean house” when given the proper conditions.

People seem to think that we were born with these bodies that don’t work correctly and that without are superior “intellect”, they can’t function correctly. This is ridiculous, and couldn’t be further from the truth. The only thing we do, in most cases, is give the body more work to do and make it harder to do what we want. We’ve made it through millions of years of evolution without our “intellect” to guide us. WE are the ones who make it harder then it has to be.

The body and cells have their own tuned in intelligence. They know what do to more then we do. We just have to get out of the way. This of course, is easier said then done. Medical brainwashing and endoctrination starts early, and continues on for some people the rest of their lives. Only when you end up in a shit situation like this do you realize that western medicine as we know it is killing more people then it’s supposed to be saving. The whole thing is a big, bad experiment gone wrong. Just like the crazy shit they used to do back in medievil times in the sake of “medicine”, a couple hundred years from now, people will look back in disbeleif at what was condiered normal medical care these days. Parents will be telling their kids how people used to routinley consume toxic pharmaceutical chemicals in an effor to be “healthy.” I’m amused by it now…

This theroy makes alot of sense.

I have a strange taste in my mouth also…does anyone else?

Yes, im the same person…

Im not saying this is the be all and end all. Im saying this could be a large factor for at least some of the guys here. Its a case of nutting out what the individual problems are.

Letsconvenience, I just had a look at my Sodium/Potasium ratio and it is even less than yours at 1%…

I also have a low sodium/magnesium ratio…

Very interesting. I had no idea sodium played such a big role in the way the adrenals function.

I am going to aim for around 2500mg of salt per day. I have already had a neurogolist tell me to up my sodium intake to thicken blood as I have low blood pressure - which in itself is a sign of sodium deficiency…

HMMMM…

Letsconvenience, sorry for all the questions buddy :smiley:

But did your hair mineral analysis (HMA) show your actual copper was high or was this a “hidden” copper diagnosis?

My HMA was done in 2005 by the way. Sure its old, but its all ive got to work with ATM and I fear that things have only gotten worse since Finasteride, like it has pushed me over the edge so to speak. I am going to hit up my Naturapath for another HMA when I see her in a week or two.

My copper came back JUST in the reference range on the low end. As you probably know, this doesnt mean that my copper isnt high in my liver and tissues as it can take a long time to reach the hair. As a matter of fact the guys who did the hair mineral analysis actually told me to start eating high copper foods :unamused:

But there were other minerals and heavy metals that pointed to a possible high copper level such as this: (quite a few of these I was borderline on and theres a lot there that I dont know what they are referring to). So ive got 3 out of a possible say 11…and that was 5 years ago. I wonder how many more ive got now. Also my billirubin is high as per blood tests done back then and all the way up to now, which one of my doctors attributed to copper toxicity.

Mercury level is greater than 0.03 being 0.05
Sodium/Potasium level less than 2:1 being 1:1
Sympothetic Dominance Pattern - Yes

And here is the list:

Ø Most slow oxidizers and all very slow oxidizers.

Ø Calcium level greater than about 70 mg%.

Ø Magnesium greater than about 10 mg%.

Ø Potassium level less than about 4 mg%.

Ø Zinc less than about 13 mg%.

Ø Zinc greater than about 20 mg% is often, but not always is a hidden copper indicator.

Ø Mercury level greater than 0.03 mg%. (see below)

Ø Slow oxidation with a copper level less than 1.0 mg%

Ø Copper greater than about 2.5 mg% on any chart indicates excess and usually biounavailability.

Ø Calcium /potassium ratio greater than 10:1.

Ø Sodium/potassium ratio less than about 2:1.

Ø Phosphorus less than about 12 mg%. This is a newer indicator with less research behind it.

Ø Four low electrolytes.

Ø Four high electrolytes.

Ø Sympathetic dominance pattern.

Ø Calcium shell.

Ø Step down pattern.

Ø Step up pattern.

Ø Double low ratio pattern.

Ø Bowl pattern.

Ø Passive-aggressive pattern.

See this link below regarding serum billirubin levels and copper toxicity. At one point my billirubin was about 4 times over the top of range. And when it was this high I felt utterly terrible. So terrible in fact that I went to the hospital thinking I was going to die :open_mouth: …They said your billirubin is WAY to high and they thought I had hepatitus which I dont have and ive since been tested for and came back negative. So they sent me to a liver specialist who said i was fine.

asas.org/western01/proceedings.htm