1.5 Year Old Labs - After Fin, During Low-Libido Phase - Before Peyronie's

Member Stories Lab Tests
#1

I dug these up… these were all done in June of 2009 to figure out why I (at 29) had no sex drive and was sleeping a lot and not feeling refreshed - ever. However, since I had no free time and no real doctor - I just had a relative (who does not work in this area at all) order a bunch of things based on the advice of people focused slightly more on the adrenals than on androgens per se. So, I am apparently missing T and Free T - but there are a lot of other tests on here. I am just wondering if people here have any insight into these levels… the interesting part - i guess… is that I did nothing about any of this & now have gotten worse and have peyronies - at 30. Were these labs a harbinger that I never got interpreted properly? Or, do thse look normal to people. Basically, once we saw everything was in range, the conclusion was just that I needed to take anti-depressants.

SHBG 26 (20-60)
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 39 (30-85)
ESTRONE 1.8 (1-5)
CORTISOL SERUM 15.3 (2.0-9.9)
RENIN 1.3 (2.9-24, Mean 10.8)
SODIUM 137 (133-145)
POTASSIUM 4.3 (3.5-5.3)
ESTRADIOL <10 (Males <52)
DHEA-S 168 (89-457)
FSH 2.8 (1.4 – 18.1)
LH 2.1 (1.5-9.3)
GLUCOSE 91 (60-99)

Later had prolactin & it was in range. Also - later had TSH, Free T3, Free T4 - all were fine.

#2

Interesting renin value, did your doctor say anything about this or is there some reason why it would be this low?

#3

What time were these labs taken?

DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 39 (30-85)
– Seems pretty low. Makes sense if your Testosterone levels were also low (not much T being converted to DHT via 5AR2, if 5AR2 still functioning correctly post-Fin). Unfortunately you don’t have any androgen values.

RENIN 1.3 (2.9-24, Mean 10.8)
– Points to adrenal issues. Read more here: labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/aldosterone/test.html

CORTISOL SERUM 15.3 (2.0-9.9)
– Elevated, possibly ties into the low renin reading. Points to adrenal issues, your body being under stress. According to labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/aldosterone/test.html , low renin + elevated cortisol = Cushing’s Syndrome.

FSH 2.8 (1.4 – 18.1)
LH 2.1 (1.5-9.3)
– These values are typical for Post-Fin sufferers. Then again, because LH & FSH are pulsatile, it could be you simply caught them in between pulses, hence the lower reading. Additional tests or preferably, 24 urine would be a better way to assess.

GLUCOSE 91 (60-99)
– Approaching upper limit, seen in Cushing’s Syndrome.

Note: I am not a doctor and am not saying you have Cushing’s, it’s just interesting that your posted results seem to reflect some of those involved in Cushing’s. What symptoms do you have? Do you have massive weight gain, skin bruising etc? Then again, your test results could be related to something else entirely.

One of the ways people can acquire Cushing’s is from use of glucocorticosteroids – interestingly, Finasteride has been found to have a structural affinity to corticosteroids, and there have been adverse reaction reports of glucocorticosteroid-induced muscle myopathy from Finasteride use:

- Finasteride can be considered as a synthetic corticosteroid, according to viewtopic.php?t=589

fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/97/transcpt/3352t1.rtf

Finasteride muscle myopathy & HyperCKemia: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=589

Excess cortisol can wreak having on the hyopothalamus pituitary axis and interfere with androgen production. Perhaps your low LH/FSH may be related, if your body is in a state of hypercortisolism.

Pls post those results.

#4

He didn’t know… I should mention that I was in the process of moving to another state at the time. I wanted to check this stuff out but then it just went to the back burner - if any of you have done a state to state move… things fall on the back burner.

The other problem is that the doc is a relative who does not do endocrinology or anything related - thoug he’s a very good doc in his own specialty.

I ordered these tests bc I used to post a lot on the thyroid forum (I have hypothyroidism - not auto-immune…just a freak situation where my thyroid dind’t develop normally) and they suspected I was hypoadrenal given my symptoms. I can’t remember back tha tfar (this is when Janie had a board on stop the thyroid madness - or maybe it was the yahoo board…) but the advice largely came from them.

#5

Mew,

They were taken at 2:30 PM - but since I was not employed at the time, I might have been waking up around noon… I can’t remember when I woke up that day, but if I did wake up late, that would mean my subjective morning would’ve been 12 noon… isntead of 8 AM. My circadian clock is shifted forward naturally. So, it’s hard for me to interpret single-point cortisol levels. I think most people take 4 per day to get a clear picture - or do 24 hr urine (my urine in my cortisol was normal for the full day - I did this twice at a later date bc I was convinced I had addison’s…but no…) I just don’t think I have the right cortisol responses… or am not sensitive to ACTH or something bc I get insanely stressed over nothing - BUT if I take medrol - it’s like I’ve taken a vallium…actually even better. i have zero brain fog, zero stress, and 20 points more of IQ - from medrol alone. But if I tell an endocrinologist this - they freak out at me.

I know it’s so stupid I don’t have regular T on here. I don’t know what we were thinking.

Which of these should I repeat do you think? Thanks for letting me know about urinary FSH and LSH. I will try to follow up with that. I think I can get an order… and I have Free T, T, and estadiol now - from last week.

I didn’t know FSH and LH were pulses so that’s interesting. I just looked to see if I had it done again after this, but the doctor here didn’t do FSH and LH - he said if it was normal once , he had no reason to do it again. He was an endocrinologist who is also in administration here… and it’s frustrating to get him to do anything bc of his cost containment attitude and zero tolerance for anything out of the box.

I didn’t have weight gain or bruising.

What do you think about the low DHT? Did that mean anything perhaps? I know this is a weird case to look at “historical” labs - but the interesting (and crappy) part is tha tI did nothing about any of this and ended up with continued symptoms and also PD.

BTW - one of my major symptoms which I haven’t seen on here (yet - but I haven’t read it all) was the retraction of my flacid penis into my body when sitting. This was so bizarre and it happened all the time. I don’t have a huge dick but it’s not tiny - and when I’d be sitting at work and then feel like it just receeded back inside of me - it was very odd. I can’t imagine a healthy penis would do this.

When that doctor on the youtube said some guys have systems that are just “waiting to be broken” or “easily broken” – I think I am th eposter child for this. I mean, I had hypothyroidism since birth - which just creates a lot of oddities (and it’s extremely rare so nobody knows what is part of this and what is an oddity) - and then mixing in something like Fin was just like throwing a match into kindling I think.

#6

Ok - I had to find the paper copy… didn’t know if I still had it (the other lab has a website that keeps results - very convenient).

FREE THYROXINE 1.31 (0.8 - 1.8)
FREE T3 322 (230-420)
T3 Total 137 (97-219)

PROLACTIN 7.4 (2.1-17.7)

Provider message [Note this is an old school endocrinologist - not a sexual function specialist]: The pituitary prolactin level is in the normal range. coupled with your prior normal endocrine blood tests done in June of 2009, there is no evidence of a hormonal deficiency problem in the testes or pituitary causing erectile dysfunction and decreased libido. It will be important fo you to discuss these problems with a mental health specialist. You could consider a trial of Viagra, Cialis, or Levitra to help with erectile functioning.

And… 2 months later… the onset of Peyronie’s disease appeared…though my uro told me I the PD was forming while the ED was happening - just not severe.

Now, a year later I have severe calcification, fibrosis / scarring…

Could it have been caught and reversed had i been given TRT? I was pretty much begging them for some medication after how tired and asexual I was feeling + the semi-hardon maximum erection I could get. Yet all I got was “take it up with the psych ward” … and now I’m probably deformed for life… unreal. (I know this is not the PD board - so I won’t dwell on it but long story short - PD is a nightmare…not only do you lose size, but you get dents and lumps - in addition to curve) What’s even crazier is that I am just putting the timeline together now - as I’ve been reading here and thinking about how this all unfolded.

#7

I am 30 w/ Peyronies (not due to injury) and other T-deficiency symptoms. I was on fin for 3 months 2 years ago.

SHBG 41 (8-48 nmol / L) AMD Lab
Hematocrit 43.5 (38.5-50%) Quest
FSH 3.3 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL) Quest
LH 3.6 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL) Quest
Progesterone <0.5 (<1.4 ng/ml) Quest
Prolactin 8.8 (2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL) Quest
Testosterone, Total, Male 663 (241-827 ng/dL) Quest
Estradiol, Rapid 51 (< or - 54 pg/mL) Quest
Testosterone, Free 1.07 (0.95-4.30 ng/dL)

2 doctors have told me (via phone and via their assistants) that they want to treat my free T but I cannot get in to see 1 until Feb - and the other should be able to do something for me in December - but I am trying to see if I can get something in the meantime. It would make more sense to me to treat the T for a month and repeat the labs - rather than wait till Feb, treat, and repeat labs in May or something. Also, I want to stop the progression of Peyronies which may be related to all this.

1.5 years ago, my labs were:
FSH 2.8 (1.4 – 18.1)
LH 2.1 (1.5-9.3)
PROLACTIN 7.4 (2.1-17.7)
T has always been in the 600s but we never got a free T.

Do FSH and LH need to be higher up for any reason in men? I thought these affected women more - but i dont know…

My main Question is really just - what do you think about my free T for a 30 year old and have any of you treated T? If so, what’s the best way? The gel?

#8

orion,

Did you get diagnosed with Peronies or are you guessing you have this? Also, what are the symptoms you have that led to diagnosing you with Peronies?

Your SHBG & Estradiol are both on the extreme high end of the range, while your free testosterone is very low. Mine is also like this. Total Testosterone is binded to proteins in your body and therefor not available for immediate use. This is why Free Testosterone is important.

Your T is also binded to SHBG and high Estradiol levels are known to cause problems with men. I think you should look to try clomid or Arimidex to straighten out your Estrogen/Testosterone inbalance.

#9

Boston,

I was diagnosed with peyronies over a year ago & have had a number of ultrasounds to confirm the location of the plaque as well as the start of some calcification in the plauqe (not a good sign). The symptoms are a curve greater than 30 degrees, narrowing, overall shrinkage of the penis, and pain in the flaccid and erect state. It can be confirmed with an ultrasound but it doesn’t really need to be as the diagnosis is pretty clinical (plaque in the penis & curved erection). Also, my urologist injected me with prostaglandin to induce an erection and take measurements… fun stuff. This is standard though…so he has all the details.

Anyway, I have an appointment in december with a endocrinologist specializing in men’s hormones - but the doc told me via his assistant he’s not a fan of clomid & understands the theory but doesn’t tend to use it. He has the labs I posted here. I’ll see him in a few weeks and update.

When you said “mine is also like this” – have you tried any meds or had any success so far? What kind of symptoms do you have? I am viewing the peyronie’s as the end stage of 2 years of no morning erections…and a very low sex drive and slowly shrinking penis (that eventually started turning to scar tissue). I never had an injury to my penis (which is the cause of most peyronies)… so I think if I can treat the androgens, I can have a shot at reversing some of the peyronie’s. There are some papers that another member here posted about the effects of androgens on the penis.

If you are in boston, have you been to Morgentaller and his group? He seems to be at the forefront of Testosterone issues with men…would be very curious to know his recommendations.

#10

I am not sure what is going on with me…but here’s the situation if anyone has any idea.

I just got labs back… and my DHT is at the top of the range. Free and total T are also nearly at the top of the range. I’d post all the numbers if you want but it’s a different lab so comparing is complicated. The main point is that in the end of october, my free T was too low (lowest in the range, and below the range for someone my age per my doctor) - and my Total T was mid-range. The only thing very slightly low (out of range) was IGFB-3. Thyroid was fine.

The crazy part is I am not on any anrogenic drugs. Both of these tests were before I started clomid… so I have no idea what is going on. I don’t know how my Free T went from the lowest end of the range to mid-high in 2 months with no androgenic drugs. I started taking other meds & supplements for Peyronie’s - and now I wonder if they affected my testosterone (arginine/ornithine, acetyl-l-carnitine, pentoxifyline, viagra / cialis, pycnogenol). Maybe that is causing this? I see a urologist and an endocrinologist but they each have their own view of the world - so I don’t think they can answer these questions… particularly about the supplements.

And I am eating & craving foods (sugar / carbs mostly) out of control… so I don’t know what is going on w/ me right now. I gained a few lbs of fat (despite the high T). Other than the food craziness, I am not feeling that different…though I have way more nighttime erections since I take cialis every three days. I ran about 60 miles (total) in 3 weeks and didn’t lose an ounce…so that’s irritating - but largely due to my eating habits.

And is high DHT a “good” thing around here w/ PFS? Or is that a sign of desensitized receptors (if it is high in the blood w/ no physical / psychological change)?

#11

I had a similar situation. My total T had about doubled before clomid but I have had no resolution of side effects. I think this is silenced AR signal. It’s nice to have levels in optimal ranges but I dont think its gonna cure anyone. I guess if your T is higher it would figure that metabolities of T are higher as well. Probably your 3 adiol G is higher too. Good things yes, but probably not going to change us into our Pre Fin selves.

#12

Could be insulin sensitivity related, especially with the carb craving. It very well could have been one of those supplements/meds. Which one I have no idea.