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Hi there,
Thought id give an update 1 more year has passed. The girl did not want to see me again. I managed to sleep with a couple of girls in the UK, and actually it was pretty good. The only thing that was wrong was maybe a little soft with BJ’s and once I had orgasmed, that was it, no more sex.
So I moved back to AUS. I don’t really feel like telling a long story so i’ll just give you some cliffnotes. Have had some anxiety / stress. Generalised anxiety has been a constant companion although in the UK ive seen signs of it abating. I was smoking in the UK (well aware this lowers penile bloodflow) but I thought you know what, fuck it. I was doing it for me and for fun. I swear to god the dopamine or nicotine or something from cigarettes helped relax me. Im well aware that cigarettes actually make you more stressed and the relief is from nicotine withdrawl, but I was generally less anxious on cigarettes and happier too. Still I quit, not worth it.
Current situation - I feel a bit sad and have the last few days. I have been abstaining from masturbation / porn, but decided about 3 days ago to re-test. Immediately regretted it. I’ve wanked a couple more times and my anxiety is back again.
My libido is still low, mental clarity is a lot better, anxiety is a lot better. Let me say what ive done and what I think is helping.
Sleeping - Have been sleeping fairly well, getting good sleep. Hopefully it helps
Intermittent fasting - Have been doing this for years now. I really think it helps with clarity, and hopefully cell repair (autophagy). Lately ive upped the fast (eat by 8:00pm latest, eat again around 1:00pm where possible).
Diet - Hasn’t been brilliant but not terrible, try to eat healthy take away (subway, noodles etc). Tuna & eggs at home.
Gym - So ive been to the gym a bit over the years, but for the first time I feel relaxed there. Have had good energy there in general (few aches and pains) and have been getting stronger and putting on muscle. This is the light of my life at the moment as Ive never been able to tolerate the gym.
Reverse Kegels - Ive learnt that i have a tight pelvic floor. In a bid to try help my erections (prob from propecia problems) I tried Kegelling back in about 2005. Ended up with some premature ejaculation problems. I think this became a habit and have been reverse kegeling lately with good effect for my erections.
Mediation - I really believe meditation is great for anxiety and for lowering stress. I haven’t done it for a few days but I MUST get back on it.
Walking - I also don’t walk enough but I when I did I felt far better
Anxiety - Between mediation and some excellent resources I’m making incredible inroads towards anxiety. Claire Weekes is the key to beating anxiety imho. Propecia induced anxiety is almost impossible to deal with (trust me I know) but I think i’m dealing with the remnants of that. By facing > Accepting > Floating > letting time pass, Im learning slowly to let go. I need to give less fucks.
Work - I quit my job, was doing fine but long story. I’m currently at uni and fortunately am in the position I can stay away from working for a while. Full steam ahead trying to help myself.
Abstaining from porn and masturbation - This is my secret weapon. I know that propecia caused my problems, i’ll never deny that. But abstaining from the above really really helps. It significantly improves my cognition more than anything else. In fact after 95 days I even felt my libido come back. When I orgasm a few again I get an awful hangover though (very anxious). Starting tonight, abstaining again, hoping to get to even longer this time 6-12mo. Should be able to.
So who knows if i’ll ever get better. It does seem mentally im getting better ever so slowly. Perhaps in a few years I can hold down quite a professional job well, at least i’ll have some purpose. There’s a chance i’m getting better in all areas, even sexually. It seems to be an upward trend. My deepest hope at the moment is that working out for a year and packing on some bulk switches something back on.
Welcome to contact me for any reason, but i’ll probably try go back to my own devices again now. I am really averse to taking pharmaceuticals to cure myself, since that’s what screwed me in the first place.
I really wish you all (and myself) the best of luck
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Guess what, me again. 10 year propecia man checking in. And what a weird night to post. Normally id make these posts when i’m feeling pretty good, but i’ll readily admit i feel a bit down right now. But not too bad. I doubt anyone will even read this but i find it handy to keep a diary.
So, last 2 years ive been doing uni, going to the gym and doing work placements. Uni has been going fairly well (grade wise) although my lord do i hate assignments. The stress of having them over my head is horrible. One more assignment to go till my masters is finished.
The gym - I’ve been going to the gym for about 1.5-2 years now, doing a semi compound/powerlifting split. Have made some decent strength gains (bench 125kg, squat 170kg, deadlift 210kg). I feel that my gains might be a bit low for my body shape and the way im put together, im a bit of a nugget. Do i have low T? I don’t know, perhaps this is usual for someone who isn’t neccessarily eating right / good with form.
Work placements - have been doing placements they have been going well. In fact i landed a job a week ago at one of my placements.
Sooo… How am i going? Well firstly on the cognitive side, I am generally pretty good. I get sadness, i get anxiety… BUT my learning about claire weekes, acceptance and some other resources have accelerated my mental health leaps and bounds in general. I’m slightly out of whack and sad right now, but i cant always be great. Quite honestly though, learning the truth about my anxiety has often set me free. Sometimes i go through a period of a month with very little anxiety, sharp thinking (at least for me), feeling calm and content. Its very nice, and i have a great deal of hope that this will continue in the future, as i believe in what i have learnt 1000000%. If you have issues with anxiety, i’m a good contact for you.
So this leaves my physical side effects… Well this is kind of what has brought me here. For quite some time i rarely think about it, especially when im feeling really good. In honest truth i still have a feeling in the back of my mind something is wrong. Its sad, im a kind, good looking, fairly intelligent, funny and socially intelligent man. Yet i just never get laid. Actually at the moment i can sense im being checked out a lot. Yet a part of me is terrified, a part of me also just doesn’t seem to have that drive and motivation. Its sad really. What i wouldn’t give to just want to really ravage a women. I think that kind of feeling would fill me with confidence and i would seek out someone. At this stage im kind of waiting for a girl to fall into my lap, which wont happen and even if i do i’ll probably be too scared. That being said, i can perform sexually ok, I did in the UK and i don’t think much has changed. My performance might only be ‘ok’ though, i sense i’m not at my best.
I’m just going to keep working on the physical/mental, going to the gym, keeping happy, and working on self acceptance / acceptance of anxiety. I honestly think that it is a component to my sexual desire. I think that having my self esteem knocked so hard by what has happened + a very critical father has done a fair bit of damage. I do think changing my relationship to myself and to anxiety i’ll notice libido will come back a little. There are little flashes… Today i was talking to quite a cute woman in my team at work and i could see her figure beneath her black outfit and something definitely stirred. It was almost like the starter motor trying but nothing else happening.
I dream of having my libido return some day. I wonder how much is mental and how much is propecia. I suspect some is due to this drug, as hard to accept as it is. I do doubt i’ll ever find a recovery formula here and i probably will never look. The only chance i have is my mental game, my hope, and perhaps time. When i’m not down i can function, my job is fairly decent and I can perform and help people. I can enjoy things in my life although my life is somewhat empty. Every now and then i get joyus because my anxiety fades, and its wonderful and this is enough to spur me on. My only dream is for my sexual system to kick in, for me to imagine myself making love to a women and for it to be a nice thought. If that happens my life might turn from Salvageable, to fantastic.
For anyone that reads this, I wish you the best and you’re welcome to contact me.
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I know that feel, bro…
No, really, it’s not just for memes’ sake; you’ve described exactly how I look at life right now. I’m trying to go on with it, but sometimes it gets so hard to contemplate the emptiness… Libido is way more important than what one would think.
Best wishes for you (and for me).
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Ok, checking in here to report some weird ass shit.
So things in general have been going ok. I’ve worked hugely on the mental symptoms in the last 3 years and its really paid off. I have already spoken about using Claire weeks / anxietynomore blog. I didn’t have many other mental symptoms except what seemed like apathy, fatigue and poor memory. My brain fog had since cleared years ago. I had some bouts of feeling quite low (which was unusual for me even post propecia). They weren’t that regular (perhaps once every 3 months). I started to suspect that i did have depression basically all the time, I was never really happy. Anyway I started reading about self compassion, i listened to a great audiobook called love yourself like your life depends on it, and some good ones by Tara Brach. I started to notice that i was thinking a lot clearer, performing better at work and more about to talk without worry.
After a failed date about 3 weeks ago (she actually said she was sad i didn’t check her out more). I think she thought i didn’t find her attractive. I started looking at Propecia help again dismayed about my libido. This really sent me into a tizz where one weekend i was reading all weekend about it, yelling at my parents occasionally, very down, distressed and worried. Basically saying that i needed to quit my job and move to Thailand. Yes i got that upset.
I tried a couple of random things, bought some tomato juice and ate a whole can of asparagus. Basically desperate.
I went to the doctor and discussed this again (a new doctor as they keep moving on). He ordered some blood tests, suggested i see a sexual health counsellor but also said that perhaps I could also see an endo as he could see it was years of the same. I started thinking that perhaps it was time to start trying some harder drugs as i would never recover. Id try HCG, Test or something like that. Yet at the same time i was also thinking about my mental symptoms. I wondered how much of an effect feeling fucked by propecia was having on me. One night i said that perhaps i should start giving love and attention to my thoughts of low libido.
Anyway blood tests came back and he tells my my cholesterol is a bit high, my liver (ALP & Bilirubin) is high also. My liver has shown signs of damage in the past (I barely ever drink so i wouldn’t be surprised if that’s Propecia related. Then he tells me my T is out of range. Yep i knew it. He tells me that it is elevated??? What???. The range is like 12-32. My T is 34.4. Wtf? Last year around the same time it was 22.2. He wrote me a referral to the endo.
So i started taking stock of my body, what the hell is going on. Its probably in my head but i realised i do feel manly. Keep getting headaches like i used to when im younger. I feel a bit stressed as if there is a pressure to do things / talk more. I feel a small tingling in my scalp. I don’t care what people think at all at the moment. The strange thing is i think im naturally a high T person. As a child my voice broke earlier than everyone, i was quite muscular and also my hair fell out at 15!.
Ive been hitting the gym (powerlifting) for about 2.4 years now consistently 3 times per week (sometimes 4). I unknowingly took Tribulus before i found out about the blood test and I felt like an animal at the gym one night. This trib was after the blood test though.
So i’m really confused. I feel better, in fact im even having some sexual thoughts. Am i recovering? I don’t know but i’ll keep an eye on things over the next few months. Was the huge T some weird aberration/error? Surely a tin of asparagus couldn’t do this? Hopefully it lasts or something changes.
If i really am getting better i really believe finally unwinding and dealing with my thoughts on this could be what has done it. I don’t want to Jinx myself, i am just going to relax and not expect the world and see what happens…
Elevated T… wtf lol.
Yo…those are really good sign of recovery…Plss hold on…I know a friend who was with same situation ur in right now…actually its been a long time since he recovered. High T levels are somewhat expected in ur case…its simply androgen resistance…this is the transition period where ur body begins to taste essence of Testosterone. So be careful…abstain and let ur body detoxify in its own way…take care…hope u find ur way back to urself …soon enough…Godspeed…GDV
Hey there GDV, sorry I missed your message i never get a email about this thread. I’ve just subbed to it. Do you mean your friend had high T and then eventually recovered? That definitely is a nice thought.
So just an update on myself again. I have been learning Metacognitive therapy, and it is working wonders with my mental health. Right now i probably feel calmer and happier than i have in years. I had some more blood tests with the doctor.
To my surprise, My test is still holding at a elevated 34.2 now. My uncle found out he had hereditary haemochromatosis (very high iron in the body) I was tested for that as i thought a lot of symptoms aligned. I came back as a carrier for it which means i should have very little clinical symptoms. Interesting, my transferrin saturation is high 72% (up from 50% two years ago) but my ferritin level is low. This does sound a little odd as >45% transferrin sat is often an indication of the start of iron overload. I’ll keep an eye on this.
My Bilirubin is very high 52 from a range of like 0-20. The doctor has tested and i seem to have an apparently benign disorder called Gilberts, where the liver doesn’t properly destroy bilirubin that breaks down from red blood cells. Ive done some reading on it and a lot of people actually think they do have symptoms from it. It reminds me of propecia, doctors think it doesn’t do anything, yet there is forums of people talking about fatigue. The only way to help that appears to be a healthy diet. Lol so it looks like i cut the sugar and refined carbs and continue healthy…
I do wonder what part my liver has to play in all of this. I know a lot of prop people have high SHBG, i went through my tests and even thought it was requested i cant see the results. This could actually explain my high T if its all bound up. When i see the endo next month i’ll be watching this. What is interesting is my liver has been slowly but surely reporting better figures over time apart from Bilirubin. I wonder if its healing? Perhaps this Gilberts syndrome (30% slower processing of drugs in phase 2) or whatever it is actually explains in part why I got so fucked by Propecia.
I actually agree with you btw GDV, enough changes are happening at the moment that i am not sure id consider drugs unless the endo can really show me somethings wrong.
So i still have very low libido, although definite little flashes happening. This morning i woke up and realised i had been dreaming of this girl at work (who im friends with never thought sexually about). As i was waking up i kept thinking about her in a bikini and definitely libido there so that was nice.
Will continue to update if anything interesting changes.
Always had high bilirubin, too. How’s your wbc/platelets… low?
I just had a look for you
WCC (white cell count) is 4.5 (4.0-11.0)
Platelets 183 (150-450)
Haemoglobin 179 (130-180).
So yeah kind of low normal i guess. any interesting hypotheses?
Guess not. I’m similar except out of range slightly low on wbc, platelets… Also top range haemoglobin.
I was going to maybe ask my doctor today about some type of anemia, spleen or bone marrow issues, but he blew off the results including my high bilirubin. He did let me try thyroid medication. I’m borderline on TSH… But have a lot of hypothyroid symptoms. Hoping for improvement on fatigue, sleep quality.
Good luck with that mate, ive thought about my thyroid many a time. It always comes back clear but i will be going to see an endo next month who is a thyroid and hormone specialist so will be interesting to see if he comes up with anything.
Interestingly, without having a clue what im talking about it seems that Propecia is processed through glucuronidation in phase 2 of the liver. That is the same part in those in gilbert’s syndrome have fucked. Wouldn’t be surprised if the liver was really struggling with its load with propecia / red blood cells / hormones etc and this is what led to my crash. Doctors say that high bilirubin doesn’t have many effects, i’m not sure that’s true. This last week ive been so very fatigued, i even have a small pain around my liver area on the right side. My stool is yellowy clay coloured. My fatigue could be PFS but i don’t think so. I mean if the liver is struggling with RBC i wonder what else it is too.
Let me know if you have any success with your thyroid
Supposed to get tested in about 10 weeks then see him after that. Could take a while to have an effect, if any, but, I’ll let you know.
Hi to anyone who reads this. First time logging into Propecia help in a long time.
I just wanted to give a bit of an update. I’m very tired at the moment (gym+sleep restriction) so i’ll keep it relatively brief.
As you can see from this thread, started Propecia at 15. My life was never the same since. I had brain fog, serious anxiety, clearly some dysthymia / depression. Soon after quitting at 25 I began to have some of the worst years. I was reading propeciahelp all the time, i was so upset i would cry constantly, my life was almost at an end. When i say i had anxiety, i really mean it. I would be terrified often getting on the train, be scared of going to the shops, my world would be dark from disassociation, id totally freeze and embarrass myself in social situations, sometimes id leave an event in total panic.
I struggled through and always tried to fix it (following guidelines here, going to the gym, mediation, broccoli, diet, supplements etc). Nothing really worked.
At some point i started focusing on my anxiety and i found Claire weeks, and later on Paul David & the anxiety no more blog. I tried as best as i could to follow the rules of the blog, and id have moments of no anxiety but still often relapse into despair. My every day state was average at best - something was wrong and it was lurking in my subconscious. I was never able to let go.
Yet i persisted with (Ironically trying not to persist so hard). As of about 5 months ago something seems to have clicked. I feel what i can only describe as normal. I have very little anxiety, no sadness. I’m just fine. I keep waking up every morning expecting to feel flat / anxious again but it just isn’t happening. My confidence and personality is returning, my mind is sharper and I feel thankful and calm.
So the other side of things (that in a way frightened and more deeply upset me) was some ED, Some PE, and a persistent feeling of low libido. Every since feeling better, this has also improved. I haven’t been laid for years and i’m low fapping, but I’ve been feeling horny again. Its not raging but its undoubtedly there. I’m not worried about it, my ED is minor if even there, and PE can be solved with work if i need it. I wouldn’t be surprised that if once i get a partner and as my sleep continues to improve (using a technique i’ll detail below) and i regain who i am, the final bits of depression lifts, i will be fully functional and fine.
My current feelings about Propecia -
Do i think Propecia fucked me up hard? well…probably / likely. I became anxious / depressed after taking it although i was also going bald. Do i think it caused physical damage to my brain? I’m not so sure. I believed 1000% that i was fucked. Waking up with brain fog was the damage from Propecia. This belief defined my life. I was like that women from inception, my life was basically over. Yet here i am. I have beaten depression and SERIOUS anxiety. What has led to my recovery? I am 100% certain it was my own hard work to understand and work on my mental state.
I know how unpopular it is to claim Propecia might not be the cause of all your issues. I know some people will hate me for even implying it. All i can say is i am at peace finally, i am normal and happy. I took Propecia for 10 years.
What has improved my well being
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The fundamental principles of Claire Weekes_ (3+ Years for me to understand it) (face, accept, float and let time pass) sound easy. Many people try to combat anxiety but don’t have the fortitude and the insight to really see that it is caused by themselves. I would relapse, doubt myself, hate life, then get back on the horse. Finally, i started to see the improvements, to really believe it was possible. I started to realize how pointless fighting anxiety was and i let down my guard. Finally it went away.
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I’ve never been prone to depression as i’m quite a flexible thinker. Yet the thought that i was fucked - id always have brain damage, and id never be able to have a partner crushed me. There was NO solution to this, i watched those on propeciahelp try things and fail. Yet as time went on i started to cultivate doubts and to question what i knew. I read about individuals with schizophrenia who were mute and smoking all day, to living very functional lifes when their hope returned. I started to question how much of my problems were due to my extreme worry. How far did this rabbit hole go? Would my libido come back if i weren’t depressed? Would my sleep improve? Am i sure that i am brain damaged? Could my anxiety be caused by my own fear of it?
Slowly, as i saw the results for my own eyes, i realized more and more the part i played in this. Could my nervous system be absolutely shot to shit from years of emotional abuse? -
I went to a sex therapist who was lovely. She is a GP, and was better BY FAR than the psychologists i had seen in the past. She was kind, she normalized some of my problems. She hypnotized me. I am a very skeptical person, and i told her so, but she framed it as deep relaxation. And BOY did i relax when she did it. I sunk into the chair and relaxed in a way that i hadn’t ever. From that day on i started a daily relaxation practice. I also used proper diaphragmatic breathing. Id heard of relaxation in the past but id never really did it. This seemed to be the final straw that tipped me into feeling great.
Some other things i did that i found effective (but I don’t not think were directly responsible to my recovery
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No FAP
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Posture work (Strengthening glutes / hamstrings / ABS, not sitting on sacrum) - helps breathing and pelvic floor (still working on this).
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Kegels (reverse kegels in particular to undo the PE i caused myself with too many kegels. IC flexes seem to give me libido back sometimes).
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I followed a depression program called uncommon knowledge. He promoted relaxation (which i did religiously). He also spoke about values, and after doing a values exercise i really felt a lot better about myself. It was like my sense of identity clicked and i felt more whole.
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Going to the gym 3+ years. Its been a great outlet, i look better i concentrate on my lifts. I’ve gotten pretty strong too.
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Sleeping on my side with a backpack to help with mild/moderate sleep apnea (losing weight).
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Currently undergoing stimulus control and bedtime restriction therapy for my sleep. Its working, its fantastic but i’m taking it slow.
I’ve done a shit load of other things to help myself, but most of them are not worth mentioning.
So i felt i had to at least update my story. I can preempt the type of responses i will get already. “Dude im not depressed and i’m still fucked”. I am aware of the studies showing altered brain structures. Maybe you’re right, maybe propecia has fucked you. Maybe time fixed me? Perhaps i was ok 5 years ago and simply mentally ill.
Or maybe you don’t really know yourself as well as you think you do. The lingering thought that propecia has ruined your life is incredibly insidious. I find it probable that many sufferers can at least improve their existence if they change their mindset a bit. All i can tell you is my own story.
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Thanks for updating your story. Though I’m relatively new to this, I feel confident that your approach would be beneficial to many.
I’m trying to improve my sleep all the time. I got 5 & 1/2 hours unbroken sleep last night. I slept more but I’m defining success by unbroken sleep periods. Could you talk a little more about your journey with sleep and particularly the bedtime restriction therapy you mention?
Could you also talk a little more about your pelvic floor work?
What’s PE?
Thx for the update. I took Propecia for 20years and i am off now for 11 months. I have only the mental problems that are persisting and gut problems, perhaps libido lower than before. I am very happy that you could turn things around with your brain because i often have the fear that i have serious brain damage going on.
Your post gives me realy hope and a lot of motivation. Will read your entire story this evening.
Thx z.
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I’m assuming that it stands for premature ejaculation.
Hi guys,
For those of you that dont know me, i started taking propecia at age 15 for 10 years. Im no stranger to this drug. When i was on it i had awful anxiety, my brain simply would not shut off from negative thoughts. I had to fight them even when being at home by myself.
So i quit propecia 1 year ago. To be honest, i dont even know what my body is supposed to be like, since i started propecia when i was still growing. I do remember having really hard morning and night erections because i used to pee on the wall of the toilet accidently.
So fast forward to now. My anxiety has subsided probablly 85-90%. My clarity of thought is far greater and i am now happy about that. I used to wake up almost every morning feeling like a truck hit me, but now i wake up feeling clear.
Something seems to have changed over the last few weeks. I was playing a computer game dragon age origins, and i realised that i was actually enjoying myself. I was talking out loud and laughing. I hadn’t felt like this in years. At work, i have been funnier, more relaxed and happier. Two women were making mozaics at work and i started commenting on how screwed up they were. They both thought it was hilarious and i did too.
Over the last year i probablly had 3 morning erections all up and this disturbed me a lot. Over the last 2 weeks, ive probablly had about 10. They are still a little weak i think but morning erections seem to be quite common. Im dreaming almost every night where i wasn’t dreaming at all before. I went to the gym for the first time in a couple of years yesterday and smashed my muscles to peices. I walked out and noticed a girl driving in her car and i looked straight at her nice legs and i had some movement downstairs. I walked into the shop at uni and the girl called me darl. I noticed a blush in her cheeks and a smile. I walked past a bald old man outside and looked at his bald head and it seemed strangely beautiful and primal to me.
So what has changed? To be honest not a great deal… Ive been walking heaps lately as i dont have a car. I walk 4k’s to the shops without blinking these days. Plus, the temperature has changed and i think im getting better sleep. I do think that the morning erections have some connection with my increased dreaming. Finally, ive taken ownership of my problem and im trying to be happier. Im trying to have fun and not to worry. Im not sure if im able to do that more because of some change, or if because ive been doing that ive made a change happen.
Please let me stress not to beat yourself up about this too much. Being happy and trying to have fun has really increased the quality of my life. So much that if this is how i would stay, i think i could be happy like this.
Now, im not an idiot. Ive been through that many up’s and downs in the past that i know this might not be a long lasting change. Ive felt good in the past too. Im going to keep trying and hope we all feel good again 
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Wow, I can’t believe doctors would prescribe this stuff to a 15 year old. A 15 year old who hasn’t even had a chance to really live and enjoy life. I’m glad you are slowly showing some signs of recovery. I wish you the best and hope you continue to get better
You should sue that doctor for negligence and malpractice. Finasteride is not meant to be prescribed to men under 18.