Sennex, you never had the post finasteride crash?
How the hell can a guy be on this drug for 10 years from 15 years old and be way better off than half of us.
Sennex, you never had the post finasteride crash?
How the hell can a guy be on this drug for 10 years from 15 years old and be way better off than half of us.
Are you saying that you milked the prostate?
Have you still not had any tests done? Just been trucking a long these past 2.5 years slowly recovering?
I thought i would give a quick update. I know i haven’t been on here for a long time. The reason for this is i found this site destroyed me. Reading the posts of people suffering and the science day in and day out just didn’t do me any favours. I wanted to keep in the know, but being on the site certainly made my depression 2x worse. Not to downplay the site, without this site i may still be taking propecia and probablly would have topped myself years ago.
I didn’t actually update this thread with my crash symptoms. Around 3-4 months off quitting propecia, things did get worse. Much worse… I did post about it if your interested, somewhere.
I just read my last post re-uni. My god, worse year of my life. Ive never had feelings like that before. Stress, severe anxiety and depression all mixed together. Literally i would cry at least once a week, often to my mother over the phone. They asked me to quit but I managed to pass (75%) however (somehow). I moved interstate and found another job. A year later im pleased to say that cognitively, i think i feel better than I have in a long time. I feel calm, confident and can banter and smile with people again. When people talk to me, often i’ll respond without thinking (which is what normal people do). The brain fog with Propecia meant that in the past every word spoken to me had to be filtered through the fog and it was a real struggle to keep up with people.
Sexually, I don’t think im 100%, nor do i think im anywhere near my worst. I still feel that constant ache in my genitals (like a sensitivity) which while probably not normal is far better than the numb feeling that I felt for years. Ive had some great erections, great sensitivity and even some true surges of libido (last 6 months) which ive never felt since being on propecia. Ive had a couple of sexual encounters and both were positive. Im still holding back with women though and generally i have sex about once a year on average… Sad but fortunately i have some good friends.
I haven’t seen any doctors apart from a few at the beginning. Became apparent to me that it was unlikely any doc (endo or not could really help me). I personally hate the idea of taking drugs to correct the problem. I think im stubborn, and i’d probablly suffer for ever without taking drugs unless i had a very high degree of confidence it would help long term. I’ve lost about 11 kilos and im starting to get into really good shape. Been doing some callisthenics for fitness and my body probably looks better than it ever has (aged 30 now). Lost weight purely by cutting the carbs and eating healthier (1600 calories per day).
So thats it, still have my shit days that’s for sure. Still get down and upset about Propecia. Tonight I have been reminiscent about my life and the things ive lost due to this drug. Generally i’m able to deal and I still have this ray of hope that things will continue to improve if I eat right and take care of myself. I’m more realistic now, and thinking that 1-3 more years and at this rate i could be 95% better. I certainly dont agree that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. Not for everyone, but i’ve learnt a lot about life the hard way, and its made me less complacent than others. Im not going to return for a while (unless i see some mega improvements) but i’ll check in at some point. Gotta keep that hope alive…
Nah it was just masturbating with two fingers with a semi erect penis. Don’t do that anymore but it felt amazing, like the orgasms id have! wow
Still no tests mate.
I can certainly relate to your story. I too did not know the side effects were from the drug. I remember looking up the side effects multiple times and not seeing my problems on the side effects list. That stress in the few months after quitting was also unbearable. So glad many of the sides at least have calmed down a bit over the years.
I had hair surgery also. Did you get the scar revision surgery? My scar is too noticeable if I get my hair cut too short. Did the surgery help? Cost?
Glad some things are getting better for you! Im optimistic also. I think time might take care of this.
It makes me pleased (though I know things aren’t 100% for you) to read your post. I had just started a thread the other day wondering about what had happened to older users. Good to know you are just able to get on with your life. The longer I stay away from this forum, the more I am able to get back to my life as well. Proud of you my friend!
I just wanted to give you guys a really quick update on my situation, although i dont have long before i’ll be kicked off the computer. Ive moved to the UK, working in care quite a lot. Things for the last few months have been going quite well. About 2 months ago i started thinking clearer. I just felt more intelligent, which was a great feeling as i was so used to thinking through a bit of a fog (although the mental side effects had somewhat dissipated a few years ago).
My mood has been fairly good, and in general i have felt quite calm and unflappable. I have my anxious and down moments, but in general that area of my life is no longer a problem. Ive managed to have a few sexual encounters aswell, and at first i suffered from premature ejaculation. That was the opposite of my original problem, where i had a lot of difficulty reaching orgasm. Ive had some fairly successful sexual encounters since, and its getting better. If i could only find a stable woman who i liked, i think i would continue to improve. Morning erections and spontaneous erections aren’t every day, but they are fairly regular which is great.
So in general, ive really improved lately, to the point where i am fairly happy. I would put my general recovery at around 70-85%. I even have a few bursts of libido. My libido is not raging by any means, but its pretty much adequate (although ive never really had the opportunity to know what a decent libido is).
I know that this is not a recovery yet, i still do feel fragile and i do also worry that i will revert (that would probably crush me). But my condition does feel quite stable at present…
Ok so what have i done? Nothing special really that others haven’t.
I haven’t eaten that well
I have avoided drinking wherever possible (often going months without a drink) - but i do not beat myself up if i have a few occasionally.
Took vitamin b tablets (b12, b3, niacin (non flushing) but i only took this a month or so and its very irregular.
I was going to the gym for about 3 months with a friend but haven’t been back for a while.
My sleep has had its disruptions but ive tried to get a fair amount.
Abstaining from masturbation to some degree, although do it occasionally
I think one of the biggest changes for me is that Ive lost a bucket load of weight. I was around 95 kilograms (im only about 5’7) and now im down to about 76-77 kilos. I lost it primarly by doing intermittent fasting. Eating no breakfast, eating often between 12-8pm, having fasting days of only 600 calories. Ive been fasting for probablly around 5 months now, and i do think its helped my mood, clarity of thought and sexual symptoms. Plus i look better, so i feel better aswell. If i were to guess what helped the most i would say the weight loss. I still eat a whole lot of crap, but i am determined to keep the weight off. The only other factor is time, although i was on propecia for so long and had such serious symptoms, i never thought i would notice much of an improvement.
Ok ive got to go, hope this helps somewhat. I will keep you updated by try to stay off the forums as much as a i can. Good luck all!, i truly hope i stay this way and / or continue to improve. I can live like this!
Thank you for the update and happy you are normalizing. Playing with hormones especially during puberty is dangerous business! I was on Propecia a long time as well and am still suffering badly a couple of years after stopping cold turkey; a few weeks after coming off I had the first morning erections and surge in libido in years but sadly crashed shortly thereafter. How long officially have you been off Propecia? After the “crash”, when did you start noticing true improvement?
Didn’t really want to post tonight but oh why not. I apologise for being so sporadic re my posts. Ok so where am i at?
On the positive, my mental clarity has continued to improve. Every now and then im a bit slow witted and my memory is poor, which i think is to do with propecia. Nevertheless, my anxiety has practically gone and ive been able to maintain a job as a carer very successfully while in the UK.
Erections are actually acceptable. Normally probably around 80-85% of a super erection, every now and then i get some really great ones, and occasionally quite a weak one. Im not particularly that worried about this.
My sleep hasn’t been the best lately, just been waking up around 6:00am in the morning, and struggling to get back to bed.
Fatigue, still feel a bit more than i think is normal to be honest but its quite manageable.
Orgasms / Sensitivity - hmm i think sensitivity is a little low as are orgasms. Every now and then i get a really great one though.
Libido… Well of course, its the old propecia story all over again… On the positive its not Zero. Its just not raging sadly. So let me tell a story.
At a work party the other night a girl i knew was leaving. I knew there was the possibility she liked me, and as the people whittled down i was pretty sure we would end up at her place (which we did). So we chilled out (we had been drinking and smoking a bit of weed aswell), we chatted for ages and i engaged in some light stroking of her legs / bum etc. Let me say that this girl was hot, really really hot. Anyway, as the night went on I hadn’t engaged but she lay on the floor. I headed down and we started making out. Things going well, lot of thoughts going through my head. I went for her breast/was pushed away then she put my hand on it. This is unfortunately when things went pear shaped. I didn’t really get more excited, although i was a little cheery. This is the moment when fear kicks in for me, I realize that i should be like “holy crap hand on boob”, but i didn’t. We got back onto the couch, back to rubbing her a bit but nothing else. She ended up going up to bed and i slept there with her in her bed.
Anyway, to end a long story, Next morning, more just chilling out. Let me say that we get on very very well. Shes extremely sexual though, gets guys easy and loves sex. I knew that leaving her place the chance of getting this opportunity again would be low, unless id sealed the deal. So over the last few days my texts have been reciprocated slowly, ive managed to possibly open another window for myself next week (only a chance) as she said she wants to meet again.
Ive been boyed and also dismayed by this experience. Shes freaking amazing, and to be honest i would be too if i hadn’t taken this crap. Ive been working out, eating right, not playing games and doing as much right as i could since that night. Ive felt hopeful that i can beat this and i need to take another serious run at it. Im also fucken petrified that if i get to see her, im just not going to be able to escalate to sex. I just don’t feel that passion to really ravage her and im telling you shes really great. Im also petrified that if i get the opportunity i will just sabotage it before we meet so i don’t have to go through the pain.
Its possible that i can do it. That if the stars align and she wants to meet and im in the right zone, ill make it happen. Its possible still that this could be trans formative for me, the moment i need. I need you brothers, any advice you have… please… Could it be a lot of anxiety / fear at this point? I just cannot give up, i cannot see myself as irreparably damaged. I will try beat this till my dying breath i know that.
I know that was a heavy post… Don’t read into me being totally needy / infatuated btw. If it doesn’t work with this girl, well its not going to kill me. There are other possibilities, but ive gotta keep trying.
Have you thought about applying for the studies which are going on at two major US medical institutions, these are looking at the underlying mechanisms behind PFS and hence are the real hope for facilitating any kind of treatments in future. Unfortunately not enough guys are applying. Participants are urgently needed. Please see details on front page of site.
Thought id give an update 1 more year has passed. The girl did not want to see me again. I managed to sleep with a couple of girls in the UK, and actually it was pretty good. The only thing that was wrong was maybe a little soft with BJ’s and once I had orgasmed, that was it, no more sex.
So I moved back to AUS. I don’t really feel like telling a long story so i’ll just give you some cliffnotes. Have had some anxiety / stress. Generalised anxiety has been a constant companion although in the UK ive seen signs of it abating. I was smoking in the UK (well aware this lowers penile bloodflow) but I thought you know what, fuck it. I was doing it for me and for fun. I swear to god the dopamine or nicotine or something from cigarettes helped relax me. Im well aware that cigarettes actually make you more stressed and the relief is from nicotine withdrawl, but I was generally less anxious on cigarettes and happier too. Still I quit, not worth it.
Current situation - I feel a bit sad and have the last few days. I have been abstaining from masturbation / porn, but decided about 3 days ago to re-test. Immediately regretted it. I’ve wanked a couple more times and my anxiety is back again.
My libido is still low, mental clarity is a lot better, anxiety is a lot better. Let me say what ive done and what I think is helping.
Sleeping - Have been sleeping fairly well, getting good sleep. Hopefully it helps
Intermittent fasting - Have been doing this for years now. I really think it helps with clarity, and hopefully cell repair (autophagy). Lately ive upped the fast (eat by 8:00pm latest, eat again around 1:00pm where possible).
Diet - Hasn’t been brilliant but not terrible, try to eat healthy take away (subway, noodles etc). Tuna & eggs at home.
Gym - So ive been to the gym a bit over the years, but for the first time I feel relaxed there. Have had good energy there in general (few aches and pains) and have been getting stronger and putting on muscle. This is the light of my life at the moment as Ive never been able to tolerate the gym.
Reverse Kegels - Ive learnt that i have a tight pelvic floor. In a bid to try help my erections (prob from propecia problems) I tried Kegelling back in about 2005. Ended up with some premature ejaculation problems. I think this became a habit and have been reverse kegeling lately with good effect for my erections.
Mediation - I really believe meditation is great for anxiety and for lowering stress. I haven’t done it for a few days but I MUST get back on it.
Walking - I also don’t walk enough but I when I did I felt far better
Anxiety - Between mediation and some excellent resources I’m making incredible inroads towards anxiety. Claire Weekes is the key to beating anxiety imho. Propecia induced anxiety is almost impossible to deal with (trust me I know) but I think i’m dealing with the remnants of that. By facing > Accepting > Floating > letting time pass, Im learning slowly to let go. I need to give less fucks.
Work - I quit my job, was doing fine but long story. I’m currently at uni and fortunately am in the position I can stay away from working for a while. Full steam ahead trying to help myself.
Abstaining from porn and masturbation - This is my secret weapon. I know that propecia caused my problems, i’ll never deny that. But abstaining from the above really really helps. It significantly improves my cognition more than anything else. In fact after 95 days I even felt my libido come back. When I orgasm a few again I get an awful hangover though (very anxious). Starting tonight, abstaining again, hoping to get to even longer this time 6-12mo. Should be able to.
So who knows if i’ll ever get better. It does seem mentally im getting better ever so slowly. Perhaps in a few years I can hold down quite a professional job well, at least i’ll have some purpose. There’s a chance i’m getting better in all areas, even sexually. It seems to be an upward trend. My deepest hope at the moment is that working out for a year and packing on some bulk switches something back on.
Welcome to contact me for any reason, but i’ll probably try go back to my own devices again now. I am really averse to taking pharmaceuticals to cure myself, since that’s what screwed me in the first place.
I really wish you all (and myself) the best of luck
Guess what, me again. 10 year propecia man checking in. And what a weird night to post. Normally id make these posts when i’m feeling pretty good, but i’ll readily admit i feel a bit down right now. But not too bad. I doubt anyone will even read this but i find it handy to keep a diary.
So, last 2 years ive been doing uni, going to the gym and doing work placements. Uni has been going fairly well (grade wise) although my lord do i hate assignments. The stress of having them over my head is horrible. One more assignment to go till my masters is finished.
The gym - I’ve been going to the gym for about 1.5-2 years now, doing a semi compound/powerlifting split. Have made some decent strength gains (bench 125kg, squat 170kg, deadlift 210kg). I feel that my gains might be a bit low for my body shape and the way im put together, im a bit of a nugget. Do i have low T? I don’t know, perhaps this is usual for someone who isn’t neccessarily eating right / good with form.
Work placements - have been doing placements they have been going well. In fact i landed a job a week ago at one of my placements.
Sooo… How am i going? Well firstly on the cognitive side, I am generally pretty good. I get sadness, i get anxiety… BUT my learning about claire weekes, acceptance and some other resources have accelerated my mental health leaps and bounds in general. I’m slightly out of whack and sad right now, but i cant always be great. Quite honestly though, learning the truth about my anxiety has often set me free. Sometimes i go through a period of a month with very little anxiety, sharp thinking (at least for me), feeling calm and content. Its very nice, and i have a great deal of hope that this will continue in the future, as i believe in what i have learnt 1000000%. If you have issues with anxiety, i’m a good contact for you.
So this leaves my physical side effects… Well this is kind of what has brought me here. For quite some time i rarely think about it, especially when im feeling really good. In honest truth i still have a feeling in the back of my mind something is wrong. Its sad, im a kind, good looking, fairly intelligent, funny and socially intelligent man. Yet i just never get laid. Actually at the moment i can sense im being checked out a lot. Yet a part of me is terrified, a part of me also just doesn’t seem to have that drive and motivation. Its sad really. What i wouldn’t give to just want to really ravage a women. I think that kind of feeling would fill me with confidence and i would seek out someone. At this stage im kind of waiting for a girl to fall into my lap, which wont happen and even if i do i’ll probably be too scared. That being said, i can perform sexually ok, I did in the UK and i don’t think much has changed. My performance might only be ‘ok’ though, i sense i’m not at my best.
I’m just going to keep working on the physical/mental, going to the gym, keeping happy, and working on self acceptance / acceptance of anxiety. I honestly think that it is a component to my sexual desire. I think that having my self esteem knocked so hard by what has happened + a very critical father has done a fair bit of damage. I do think changing my relationship to myself and to anxiety i’ll notice libido will come back a little. There are little flashes… Today i was talking to quite a cute woman in my team at work and i could see her figure beneath her black outfit and something definitely stirred. It was almost like the starter motor trying but nothing else happening.
I dream of having my libido return some day. I wonder how much is mental and how much is propecia. I suspect some is due to this drug, as hard to accept as it is. I do doubt i’ll ever find a recovery formula here and i probably will never look. The only chance i have is my mental game, my hope, and perhaps time. When i’m not down i can function, my job is fairly decent and I can perform and help people. I can enjoy things in my life although my life is somewhat empty. Every now and then i get joyus because my anxiety fades, and its wonderful and this is enough to spur me on. My only dream is for my sexual system to kick in, for me to imagine myself making love to a women and for it to be a nice thought. If that happens my life might turn from Salvageable, to fantastic.
For anyone that reads this, I wish you the best and you’re welcome to contact me.
I know that feel, bro…
No, really, it’s not just for memes’ sake; you’ve described exactly how I look at life right now. I’m trying to go on with it, but sometimes it gets so hard to contemplate the emptiness… Libido is way more important than what one would think.
Best wishes for you (and for me).
Ok, checking in here to report some weird ass shit.
So things in general have been going ok. I’ve worked hugely on the mental symptoms in the last 3 years and its really paid off. I have already spoken about using Claire weeks / anxietynomore blog. I didn’t have many other mental symptoms except what seemed like apathy, fatigue and poor memory. My brain fog had since cleared years ago. I had some bouts of feeling quite low (which was unusual for me even post propecia). They weren’t that regular (perhaps once every 3 months). I started to suspect that i did have depression basically all the time, I was never really happy. Anyway I started reading about self compassion, i listened to a great audiobook called love yourself like your life depends on it, and some good ones by Tara Brach. I started to notice that i was thinking a lot clearer, performing better at work and more about to talk without worry.
After a failed date about 3 weeks ago (she actually said she was sad i didn’t check her out more). I think she thought i didn’t find her attractive. I started looking at Propecia help again dismayed about my libido. This really sent me into a tizz where one weekend i was reading all weekend about it, yelling at my parents occasionally, very down, distressed and worried. Basically saying that i needed to quit my job and move to Thailand. Yes i got that upset.
I tried a couple of random things, bought some tomato juice and ate a whole can of asparagus. Basically desperate.
I went to the doctor and discussed this again (a new doctor as they keep moving on). He ordered some blood tests, suggested i see a sexual health counsellor but also said that perhaps I could also see an endo as he could see it was years of the same. I started thinking that perhaps it was time to start trying some harder drugs as i would never recover. Id try HCG, Test or something like that. Yet at the same time i was also thinking about my mental symptoms. I wondered how much of an effect feeling fucked by propecia was having on me. One night i said that perhaps i should start giving love and attention to my thoughts of low libido.
Anyway blood tests came back and he tells my my cholesterol is a bit high, my liver (ALP & Bilirubin) is high also. My liver has shown signs of damage in the past (I barely ever drink so i wouldn’t be surprised if that’s Propecia related. Then he tells me my T is out of range. Yep i knew it. He tells me that it is elevated??? What???. The range is like 12-32. My T is 34.4. Wtf? Last year around the same time it was 22.2. He wrote me a referral to the endo.
So i started taking stock of my body, what the hell is going on. Its probably in my head but i realised i do feel manly. Keep getting headaches like i used to when im younger. I feel a bit stressed as if there is a pressure to do things / talk more. I feel a small tingling in my scalp. I don’t care what people think at all at the moment. The strange thing is i think im naturally a high T person. As a child my voice broke earlier than everyone, i was quite muscular and also my hair fell out at 15!.
Ive been hitting the gym (powerlifting) for about 2.4 years now consistently 3 times per week (sometimes 4). I unknowingly took Tribulus before i found out about the blood test and I felt like an animal at the gym one night. This trib was after the blood test though.
So i’m really confused. I feel better, in fact im even having some sexual thoughts. Am i recovering? I don’t know but i’ll keep an eye on things over the next few months. Was the huge T some weird aberration/error? Surely a tin of asparagus couldn’t do this? Hopefully it lasts or something changes.
If i really am getting better i really believe finally unwinding and dealing with my thoughts on this could be what has done it. I don’t want to Jinx myself, i am just going to relax and not expect the world and see what happens…
Elevated T… wtf lol.
Yo…those are really good sign of recovery…Plss hold on…I know a friend who was with same situation ur in right now…actually its been a long time since he recovered. High T levels are somewhat expected in ur case…its simply androgen resistance…this is the transition period where ur body begins to taste essence of Testosterone. So be careful…abstain and let ur body detoxify in its own way…take care…hope u find ur way back to urself …soon enough…Godspeed…GDV
Hey there GDV, sorry I missed your message i never get a email about this thread. I’ve just subbed to it. Do you mean your friend had high T and then eventually recovered? That definitely is a nice thought.
So just an update on myself again. I have been learning Metacognitive therapy, and it is working wonders with my mental health. Right now i probably feel calmer and happier than i have in years. I had some more blood tests with the doctor.
To my surprise, My test is still holding at a elevated 34.2 now. My uncle found out he had hereditary haemochromatosis (very high iron in the body) I was tested for that as i thought a lot of symptoms aligned. I came back as a carrier for it which means i should have very little clinical symptoms. Interesting, my transferrin saturation is high 72% (up from 50% two years ago) but my ferritin level is low. This does sound a little odd as >45% transferrin sat is often an indication of the start of iron overload. I’ll keep an eye on this.
My Bilirubin is very high 52 from a range of like 0-20. The doctor has tested and i seem to have an apparently benign disorder called Gilberts, where the liver doesn’t properly destroy bilirubin that breaks down from red blood cells. Ive done some reading on it and a lot of people actually think they do have symptoms from it. It reminds me of propecia, doctors think it doesn’t do anything, yet there is forums of people talking about fatigue. The only way to help that appears to be a healthy diet. Lol so it looks like i cut the sugar and refined carbs and continue healthy…
I do wonder what part my liver has to play in all of this. I know a lot of prop people have high SHBG, i went through my tests and even thought it was requested i cant see the results. This could actually explain my high T if its all bound up. When i see the endo next month i’ll be watching this. What is interesting is my liver has been slowly but surely reporting better figures over time apart from Bilirubin. I wonder if its healing? Perhaps this Gilberts syndrome (30% slower processing of drugs in phase 2) or whatever it is actually explains in part why I got so fucked by Propecia.
I actually agree with you btw GDV, enough changes are happening at the moment that i am not sure id consider drugs unless the endo can really show me somethings wrong.
So i still have very low libido, although definite little flashes happening. This morning i woke up and realised i had been dreaming of this girl at work (who im friends with never thought sexually about). As i was waking up i kept thinking about her in a bikini and definitely libido there so that was nice.
Will continue to update if anything interesting changes.
Always had high bilirubin, too. How’s your wbc/platelets… low?
I just had a look for you
WCC (white cell count) is 4.5 (4.0-11.0)
Platelets 183 (150-450)
Haemoglobin 179 (130-180).
So yeah kind of low normal i guess. any interesting hypotheses?
Guess not. I’m similar except out of range slightly low on wbc, platelets… Also top range haemoglobin.
I was going to maybe ask my doctor today about some type of anemia, spleen or bone marrow issues, but he blew off the results including my high bilirubin. He did let me try thyroid medication. I’m borderline on TSH… But have a lot of hypothyroid symptoms. Hoping for improvement on fatigue, sleep quality.
Good luck with that mate, ive thought about my thyroid many a time. It always comes back clear but i will be going to see an endo next month who is a thyroid and hormone specialist so will be interesting to see if he comes up with anything.
Interestingly, without having a clue what im talking about it seems that Propecia is processed through glucuronidation in phase 2 of the liver. That is the same part in those in gilbert’s syndrome have fucked. Wouldn’t be surprised if the liver was really struggling with its load with propecia / red blood cells / hormones etc and this is what led to my crash. Doctors say that high bilirubin doesn’t have many effects, i’m not sure that’s true. This last week ive been so very fatigued, i even have a small pain around my liver area on the right side. My stool is yellowy clay coloured. My fatigue could be PFS but i don’t think so. I mean if the liver is struggling with RBC i wonder what else it is too.
Let me know if you have any success with your thyroid
Supposed to get tested in about 10 weeks then see him after that. Could take a while to have an effect, if any, but, I’ll let you know.