Worried's blood hormone results

I don’t have any pre-fin blood tests. I have one blood test that was taken 1 month after stopping fin, and another blood test that was taken 8 months after stopping fin. I used fin for 3 years, and started having sexual side effects 8 months ago. I’m suffering from no libido, and minimal ejaculate volume.

July 2007 blood test (1 month after stoppnig fin):

Total Testosterone= 329 (ref 250-1100 ng/dl)
Free Testosterone= 77.9 (35-155 pg/ml)
17-Hydroxyprogesterone= 79 (32-307 ng/dl)
DHEA= 830 (180-1250 ng/dl)
DHEA-S= 349 (110-510 mcg/dl)
ACTH= 20 (7-50)
SHBG= 14 (7-44 nmol/L)
Prolactin= 5.9 (2-18 ng/ml)
LH= 4.3 (1.5-9.3 mIU/ml)
FSH=1.9 (1.6-8 mIU/ml)
Cortisol (taken in PM)= 16.3 (3-17 mcg/dl; range corresponds to levels at 3-5pm)
Estradiol= 38 (13-54 pg/ml)

February 2008 blood test: (taken at a DIFFERENT LAB, so doctor told me not to compare these results to ones from another lab – pay close attention to the units because they vary)

Testosterone= 287 (241-827 ng/dl)
LH= 2.5 (1.5-9.3 mIU/ml)
FSH= 1.6 (1.4-18.1 mIU/ml)
Prolactin= 8.1 (2.1-17.7 ng/ml)
Dihydrotestosterone= 20 (30-85 ng/dl)

Unfortunately, I didn’t get as many hormones checked the second time. Urologist told me that T, LH, FSH seemed low, but in normal range, except for Dihydrotestosterone. He recommended TRT, which I think is way too extreme for now. I want to get an endocrinologist’s advice. I also want to recover as NATURALLY as possible. I’m avoiding medications that mess with my hormones more, until I find that I am not improving.

I feel like I’ve gotten worse since this whole thing began 8 months ago. Does anybody have input on hypo-pituitarism? I know that a tumor in the pituitary gland can cause these kinds of problems also, but that my problems are almost certainly due to propecia.

If you want to stimulate endogeneous T production you have 2 major options via other drugs:

  • Clomid
  • hCG

Studies on their use are in the Drug Therapy section. Dr Crisler has used Tamoxifen as well to restore HTPA/T production, look up the user “galapagos” hormone posting.

Otherwise you can try herbal T boosters (Tribulus, Tongkat Ali) and try working out like a madman for at least a year to see if anything changes… but looking at your first tests, Estradiol looks pretty high, you should try and get that down to 20-30… eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables, consider taking DIM supplements, do lots of cardio.

My latest blood test (taken October 8, 2008):

TSH= 7.6 (0.2-5.5 uIU/mL) HIGH
T4 FREE= 1.7 (0.8-1.7 ng/dL)
PROLACTIN= 29 (2-18 ng/mL) HIGH

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL= 440 (>245 ng/dL)
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE = 46 (25-75 ng/dL)
LH= 3.1 (1.0-12.0 mIU/mL)
FSH= 1.6 (1.4-18.1 mIU/mL)
ESTRADIOL= 44 (<56 pg/mL)

FERRITIN= 160 (22-322 ng/mL)
TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY= 327 (236-404 ug/dL)
IRON= 79 (41-196 ug/dL)
TOTAL IRON BINDING CAPACITY, UNSATURATED= 248 (100-315 ug/dL)
TRANSFERRIN % SATURATION= 24 (15-60 %)

COMPLETE BLOOD COUNT WITH DIFFERENTIAL:

WBC COUNT= 10.4 (3.5-12.5 K/uL)
RED BLOOD CELLS COUNT=5.01 (4.10-5.70 M/uL)
HGB= 15.1 (13.0-17.0 g/dL)
HEMATOCRIT= 45.1 (39.0-51.0 %)
MCV= 90 (80-100 fL)
RDW, RBC= 12.6 (11.9-14.3 %)
PLATELETS COUNT= 214 (140-400 K/uL)
NEUTROPHILS %, AUTOMATED COUNT= 61 (41-79 %)
LYMPHOCYTES %, AUTOMATED COUNT= 25 (13-44 %)
MONOS %, AUTO= 9 (5-14 %)
EOSINOPHILS %, AUTOMATED COUNT= 4 (0-6 %)
BASOPHILS %, AUTOMATED COUNT= 1 (0-2 %)

So, I may be hypothyroid. This is the second time my TSH measured high (I havnt posted the blood tests that show my previously high TSH). This is the first time my prolactin is showing high. My primary doctor referred me to an endocrinolgist next week.

Clearly there’s an issue here.

Yes, and based on these studies there is a relationship between hypothyroidism and elevated prolactin.

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1093

Perhaps if you get the TSH under control your prolactin will come down… if not, you could try lowering Prolactin with Bromocriptine or Cabergoline.

Considering there are a handful of guys here that ended up with high TSH and some with high Prolactin and Estradiol after Fin, there seems to be a common pattern at work for some of us.

propeciahelp.com/forum/viewt … =9144#9144

This is another area I’d be suspect of… I believe Shippen likes to keep guys in the 20-30 range, max. Might look into ways to bring this down… naturally or otherwise.

See what your endo says… keep us posted.

You are 100% Hypothyroid. You need some synthroid or armour to get you down to the 2 range.

This is the second time your TSH is high? Who is your doctor? I guarantee that the endo is going to diagnose you with hypothyroidism, guarantee. What are your current symptoms?

The only symptoms I have are no libido (and therefore poor erections too).

In anticipation of my upcoming endocrinologist appointment this coming week, I have been researching hypothryoidism. I found that certain foods classified as “goitrogens” can cause an underactive thyroid by blocking iodine transport. These foods include raw cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, etc).

I have actually been eating massive amounts of raw broccoli and cauliflower for the last couple months as well as severely restricting my salt intake. I am wondering whether this diet has caused me to become deficient in iodine and is the cause of my high TSH levels. I don’t eat any seafood at all either, which is another important source of iodine.

Anyways, we’ll see what the doctor says and I’ll change my diet in the meantime. I am praying that this is the clue to my low libido.

Yeah I dont know about the foods messing with thyroid. However, anything is possible. My TSH was a 6 and they diagnosed me with hypothyroidism. Everybody I speak to says that 2 is a good number to be at. Your thyroid could definitely be messing with ur libido. Ive been on synthroid for a while and when I stopped it awhile ago my tsh went up to a 6. I dont know if propecia did this or what. i cant remember if I took propecia first and it caused it. I think i got diagnosed somewhere around the same time as starting proecia.

i’ve tried plenty of weird diets but i think the best one is still just no junk food , no soft drinks , no alcohol.well maybe once every two months max for me.

i eat plenty of fruit , vegetables , meat , bread and some dairy.i really have not noticed any decline or improvement in health from this relatively healthy diet and the extremely healthy diets i have tried over the past year.

I think the no alcohol is the most important part. Not using any psycho-tropic substances that affect the CNS like Alcohol, Opiates, or Benzos is certainly a good idea.

Even when I didn’t have sexual dysfunction problems (pre-Propecia), I was rarely ever able to achieve orgasm when drunk. This was terrible because alcohol always made me emotional and wanting to fuck anyone in sight–but maintaining an erection and achieving orgasm wasn’t even worth trying.

Well, I saw the endocrinologist today (graduated Harvard medical school and has been practicing for over 30 years) about my high TSH and high prolactin levels (shown above in previous post).

He showed me previous blood work that I had done in 2000 and 2002 (at this time I had no symptoms and hadn’t started propecia yet either). Both of these previous tests showed that my TSH level was at 2.8.

Now in October 2008 (16 months after quitting propecia and having low sex drive), my TSH measured at 7.6 (range: 0.2-5.5 uIU/mL), which is indicative of possible hypothyroidism. My prolactin is also marginally high at 29 (range: 2-18 ng/mL). He says that high TSH might make prolactin high (which I have also confirmed in studies).

He says my testosterone levels look more or less normal, but he also said that lab tests for measuring testosterone levels in general are kind of unreliable and imprecise. I’m not really sure what to make of that.

He also said that my thyroid is just slightly palpable (i.e. enlarged). In conclusion, he said that I may or may not have a thyroid issue and that I need to be tested again in one month to see if I have consistently high TSH and prolactin levels. He is adding other blood tests too, like levels of Vitamin D and thyroid antibodies.

He also added that he thinks there is a low chance that my low sex drive is caused by this possible hypothyroidism. Well, we’re just going to have to see about that.

One thing I’ve noticed is that doctors do not believe that I have low sex drive AND they don’t believe the accuracy of the lab tests that I get. What the hell are we supposed to go by then?

I tell them my symptoms: they don’t believe me. They see blood tests that show up “normal”: they say I am fine. They see blood tests that show up abnormal: they say the lab tests are unreliable. What the fuck? The doctors should be listening to what the symptoms are and then trying to find the cause. It seems like they are looking for “extreme” lab values in order to diagnose/treat something. The human body is just not that simple. This is why some people have to resort to self-medicating.

Anyways, going to have to wait another MONTH to get further testing. Crossing my fingers that this libido issue will be solved.

Worried,

Do you have any anxiety or sleep issues?

Cdnuts:

No, I do not have anxiety. I feel like my sleep is sort of erratic because I am not at peace with my state of health. But I’m not sure if this is physiological or psychological.

My only bothersome symptoms are no sex drive, poor erections, and low/watery semen volume.

.

Well, here are the follow-up blood tests concerning my thyroid (and other tests). They were taken on 11-5-08:

Lipids
CHOLESTEROL =129 (<239- mg/dL)
TRIGLYCERIDE =46 (<199>40- mg/dL )
LDL CALCULATED =62 (<129- mg/dL )

LiverFunction
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL =3.0 (0.2-1.2 mg/dL) High
BILIRUBIN, DIRECT=0.5 (0.0-0.3 mg/dL) High
ALBUMIN=4.9 (3.3-4.7 g/dL) High

Thyroid Function
TPO Antibody=13 (<35- IU/mL)
T4 FREE= 1.4 (0.8-1.7 ng/dL)
TSH=5.6 ( 0.2-5.5 uIU/mL ) High

Other
PARATHYROID HORMONE INTACT= 20 (10-65 pg/mL )
VITAMIN D, 25-HYDROXY =26 (30-100 ng/mL) Low
CALCIUM=10.0 (8.5-10.3 mg/dL )
GLUCOSE, FASTING =99 (60-99 mg/dL)
PROLACTIN =19 (2-18 ng/mL ) High

Well, my TSH and prolactin are lower than last time, but are still out of range. My doctor says that the “significance of this is unclear”. He says I should just test again in 2-3 months and see if there happens to be a spontaneous recovery of my thyroid (which happens frequently apparently).

My bilirubin is high, but it was high back in 2007 also. About 10% of the general population has high bilirubin, which is harmless apparently.

He said to take a multivitamin for my low Vitamin D. He said everything else looks more or less normal and that I’ll be getting a follow-up blood test in 2-3 months.

Bottom line: Still unsure if anything is wrong physiologically in my body or can’t find anything extreme enough to pinpoint for treatment. Still have extremely low sex drive after 17 months of quitting propecia. This is the worst.

looking from a different angle

If estrogen and thyriodhormones are competing for the same receptors wouldent the body upregulate thyriod if estrogen was high for whatever reason?

maybe high estrogen is screwing your thyriod up forcing it to put in the xtra work.

hypothalamus realises not enough thyriod. sends out more tsh to boast thyriod hormones and also sends out prolactin in order to lower the estrogen aromatization from t.

I dont no more than you, but from everything i heard over the years that sounds like a plausible scenario in theory atleast.

Have u tried dim or any other anti E?

I can tell you what my endo would say about your results.

He wouls propably say that everything including borderline thyroid and liver is unrelated, if we consider sex drive issues. He would propably focus on a prolactin which is high enough to consider Dostinex. I was doing Dostinex regimen with a minor sucess anyway.

I tried DIM for about a week or two. Didn’t feel any difference really except that I had to urinate more frequently for some reason.

My doctor says he is a “mainstream doctor” in that he won’t give me treatment for thyroid and prolactin levels that are borderline normal. He says we should wait a couple months and re-test to see if they continue to be high.

.

LiverFunction
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL =3.0 (0.2-1.2 mg/dL) High
BILIRUBIN, DIRECT=0.5 (0.0-0.3 mg/dL) High
ALBUMIN=4.9 (3.3-4.7 g/dL) High

This was not concerning for you? You need your liver checked out. A bad liver will mess up your hormones.