Trying TRT

Therapeutic Efforts Pharmaceutical
#5

Good stuff about the progress towards treatment…that’s refreshing ur Dr is understanding of your issues.

Regarding your interaction with Dr John…what is ATM?

Also, yes TRT gel will definately increase your DHT levels as the gel has a quicker conversion to DHT than injections. My DHT while on the gel for a short period was 1.5x the max range…however I felt so bloated while on it and wasn’t sure if TRT gel was right for me (as I tried it w/out doing all the research), so when i quit I actually felt awesome and everything was great. DHT now is within range (60 rr 25 - 75)…so while it’s within range it’s not above it. So as I mentioned, I’ll be starting my Proviron this wknd (i’m out of town till fri.and proviron came in via mail the other day).

When do u start TRT? keep us posted!
Jack

#6

Jack, im still waiting on Dr Crisler to get back to me. He’s really busy. Im hoping to hear back from him this week.

I could go and get a script from regular doctor today if i wanted to, but i want to do this the right way and i feel Dr Crisler is the only way to go with this.

#7

Ive deleted this out because I dont want others trying the same protocol, since every person needs to be treated individually and what works for one, may harm another. I will certainly let you know if I recover though.

#8

The ‘post cycle’ therapy idea may have something to it and may explain why some members have made progress with TRT or estrogen inhibitors, even on a temporary basis.
The problem is that a lot of us were on quite a long ‘cycle’, but if bodybuilders can get their systems back into balance after massively inflating T levels then there must be hope.

#9

I’ve seen him mention this same thing. Do you have any Estrogen issues like high Estradiol or Total Estrogens?

#10

Yes Reason, the similarities between finasteride issues and bodybuilders who have HPTA shutdown after a steroid cycle are too close to ignore. I still think for me this is totally hormonal.

Jack my E is not elevated at all.

#11

J,
I am absolutely certain my issues are hormonal. I get strong nocturnals most nights and ED issues are not too bad - libido is the main issue.

My thoughts are that my body has now settled into a lower state of equilibrium (The HPTA cycle is still running but is working to different parameters than before). The reason I think this is if i try herbal stimulants they work for a week or two then my body gets used to them and i have to back off for several months.
Also, have done the broccoli treatment twice. The first time I got strong spikes of high libido after week 1, 2 and 3 (reducing in intensity every week), the 2nd time I felt better overall but with less ‘spiking’. I did however feel better overall for 2 weeks afterwards and that maybe my T/E ratio had improved slightly. I feel that my T levels have improved further (get latest blood test results next week, so will see) and my testes seem to be working ok.

I am at the stage now where I can try something a bit stronger, but not sure whether it should be Clomid, Tamaxifen/Nolvadex or Arimidex.
Not sure about HCG as I have concerns it will do more to upset the HPTA than other treatments.

#12

Yes Reason I think once my libido comes back everything will just happen. Fingers, toes and eyes crossed it does. Ive just about had enough of this.

I also tried Tribulus and my libido shot up pretty well, still didnt feel quit right, but everything SEEMED like it is capable of working, but it was a different kind of horny?? Im hoping its just a matter of getting it good and keeping there.

I dont know a lot about HCG and I would be carefull if your going to try it. Dont know if its dangerous or how your meant to dose it. From memory I think Jack knew a little about it. I am going to study it a little more too myself. Ive heard it can do really good things for libido but I wouldnt touch it without a competent doctors supervision. I think its a little more involved than clomid, nova etc…

#13

Just to add to that, about the tribulus, I THINK its a matter of it raises your testosterone, but after a few days your HPTA figures out there is extra and stops producing as much to level it back out again. Thats the best I can come up with while trying to be the best endocrinoligist I can. It makes sense to me. If im off track let me know.

#14

Sorry, I had to edit this because it was a stupid question… :laughing:

#15

Reason…why do you consider pursueing clomid/nolva/arimidex route (i know not all of them…but any one of them)?

do you have labs that suggest you have hormonal issues?

unfortunately, having night time erections will lead Drs to believe your issues are physchological…because your hormones need to be adequate/proper to attain night time erections (nocturnals) as you mentiond you have. I know when I had super low T i never got nocturnals.

Jack

#16

Jack,
i had the same issues - when my T was low i had no nocturnals (this for the first 6 or 7 months off Propecia). Since then they have gradually got more frequent as my T increased - should get the latest test results on Tues.
However, my body still seems to go through cycles where T seems higher for a few days then drops off for a couple. On a ‘high’ everything works ok, nocturnals strong and physical symptoms (scalp itchy with increased hair loss, beard growth stronger (even my girlfriend has noticed (complained) about this, and more recently other things)), more energy and I am noticeably sharper at work. The ‘lows’ are not as bad as they were - no real anxiety, ED not too bad and some nocturnals but not as strong.

It seems my body is still trying to work out the right balance. I responded somewhat to the broccoli treatment getting a little stronger each time, thus I suspect the T:E ratios are still a bit out.
But overall i am gradually feeling better - it is almost as if the ‘T’ is now starting to win out.
I believe my results will show T is Ok (last time total T was just below 500) and my testes seem to be working ok, hence why I am considering Nolvadex or similar - but i will hold off until I get the results.

Having said all that I am not sure what ‘normal’ levels are - there are so many different scales that who knows what are the right levels for one individual, and unfortunately I wasn’t tested ‘pre-fin’. With hindsight…!!

#17

Ive deleted this out because I dont want others trying the same protocol, since every person needs to be treated individually and what works for one, may harm another.

#18

y regular doctor went to a seminar a few weeks back with a leading TRT specialist. This specialist said “finasteride is bad news and i wouldnt touch it with a ten foot poll”. I guess you could say that the doctors are slowly starting to realise whats going on here.

this was quoted from a previous post. It doesnt matter what doctors say or what they tell you they heard. No doctor has published any papers or articles or anything with their name on it that says propecia is bad news. And until that point we as finasteride suffers will be considered crazy or that the dysfunction is all in our heads as I have heard many times before. How ones testosterone drops by over half in a short period of time with no known explanation is beyond me. If doctors believe P to be poison they should annouce it and stand up for their belief. The reality is that P is giving urologist and TRT specialist money in their pockets. IF you were a bariatric surgeon would you tell people to go on diets instead of getting their stomachs stapled? Pfizer stopped production of a drug this week cause of unexpected high number of deaths. To them we are numbers nothing more. Numbers and a way to get money. I have been to many urologist and specialist and none of them seem to care about the person they jsut want to hand out medication cause its easy to do and they can charge your insurance a few hundred dollars.

Ant

#19

Ive deleted this out because I dont want others trying the same protocol, since every person needs to be treated individually and what works for one, may harm another.

#20

TRT alone will sometimes NOT help.

Why because sometimes DHT levels return to normal post Finasteride, but often results its use results in elevated Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG).

SHBG is the protein that binds to testosterone in the blood and renders it unavailable to the body.

In a typical male only 2% of their total testosterone is bioavailable or known as free testosterone. It is this level that is crucial.

It only takes small increases in SHBG to greatly lower this crucial level of fee testosterone and sometimes Finasteride greatly increases SHBG up into the upper normal range.

At such levels it often causes low free testosterone or borderline low free testosterone.

Testosterone replacement therapy in such instances isn’t really what is required or helpful. That is because much of the testosterone can still be bound up in the blood and rendered unusable by SHBG. In these cases what is required is a medication that reduces SHBG such as Danazol.

In other instances this issue relates to elevated estradiol, again TRT is not the answer, rather a limited course of an aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex is more appropriate.

When LH is low and SHBG, estradiol and DHT are normal, the problem maybe purely down to the hypothalamus/pituitary in which case TRT maybe the answer, but it might also be possible to re-start the HPTA via Clomiphene Citrate or GnRH therapy.

All of the above under the guise of a competent endocrinologist/andrologist.

#21

Hypo,

You bring up some very good points. Are you a doctor and if not, how do you know this stuff?

Everything you just posted makes perfect sense to me. Thing is my SHBG is 29 pmol/L ref (13 - 71). Looks ok to me.

Also my LH is 2 U/L ref (<9). Ive been told that this reference range is a strange way of doing it?? What do you make of that? Ive had people tell me its low, but is it?

I had my blood DHT level tested and it came up 2.3 ref (2 - 20). I never got the units for that one. This low DHT level is why I think maybe a T gel would benefit me to get my DHT up. But also Dr Crisler says that the only way to really guage bioavailable DHT is in a 24 hr urine test which I have not got done yet.

I agree with you totally and feel my issues are directly related to Free Testosterone.

#22

hi, i speak english not vey well, i have used testogel for a month (because my T level was in the normal range but low) an now i have stop the tratment because my libido and my erections goes worst than a month ago. i am very confused…has somebody else notice the same effects using testogel??
thanks

#23

Way, there is a million reasons why you could have gone downhill since starting gel. Can you post all of your blood test results in the blood tests section? Your SHBG may be high, your estrogen may be high, you may not be absorbing the gel enough and might need to switch to injections. These are all just guesses. Check your blood work first and post ALL of your most recent blood test results. If you havnt got a blood test since starting the TRT, get one and post them. Better still, post a before and after the TRT blood test results WITH reference ranges and units.

#24

ok J89, thanks for the advices. my urologist ha prescribed me not exaustive blood tests:

Prolattina: 12.83 ng/ml reference range:(4.10 - 18.40)
testosterone: 3.28 ng/ml reference range: (2.84 - 7.99)

i post the results here because i know that this two values are not enough and i should do a more detailed test before post in the blood test section. soon i’ll post also my story in order to know your opinion about it
thank and sorry for my english