Thyroid problems??

[anonnn1]

nice find JN.

[JN1]

I just got off the phone to Kermit.

He says no need to worry on his behalf: he considered Propecia but in the end went with Rogaine and the laser comb.

Thanks scaredmale30. The relevance is the effect of molecules on eachother is the same whether in a frog, human or unicorn. Still, one of your more productive comments.

JN

[bostonusa2009]

@anonnn1

Nice my fellow brother…Good Read…

It wouldn’t doubt me one bit most of our thyroid readings came in with a high Reverse T3(Inactive). If this is the case and we are hypothyroid, this pretty much explains we are also victims of CFS(Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) as well…

Lets stay on this…

I recalled having been convinced I was hypothryoid about three months ago, until my endo dr told me it wasnt’ possible. The reason he says is my TSH is too low for someone with low thyroid function.

Looking back on it, WTF, I have all of the symptoms. Why wouldn’t my doctor look at my symptoms, rather just one number on a test. I even spent a week taking my temperature every day as soon as I got out of bed as recommended. It was always below the recommeded 98.6.

So all of these conversations renewed my interest in this as my problem.

A direct quote from, “stop the thyroid madness”

4.The TSH and its range is a fla­wed and lousy tool when used solely to deter­mine an effec­tive dose. It can leave a patient undiag­no­sed for years, or under­trea­ted. The TSH range does not equate to how a patient feels or cli­ni­cal presentation.

stopthethyroidmadness.com/do … o-rethink/

Symptoms:

■Less sta­mina than others
■Less energy than others
■Long reco­very period after any activity
■Ina­bi­lity to hold chil­dren for very long
■Arms fee­ling like dead weights after activity
■Chro­nic Low Grade Depression
■Sui­ci­dal Thoughts
■Often fee­ling cold
■Cold hands and feet
■High or rising cholesterol
■Biza­rre and Debi­li­ta­ting reac­tion to exercise
■Hard stools
■Cons­ti­pa­tion
■No eye­brows or thin­ning outer eyebrows
■Dry Hair
■Hair Loss
■White hairs gro­wing in
■No hair growth, breaks fas­ter than it grows
■Dry crac­king skin
■Nod­ding off easily
■Requi­res naps in the afternoon
■Sleep Apnea (which can also be asso­cia­ted with low cortisol)
■Air Hun­ger (fee­ling like you can’t get enough air)
■Ina­bi­lity to con­cen­trate or read long periods of time
■For­get­ful­ness
■Foggy thin­king
■Ina­bi­lity to lose weight
■Always gai­ning weight
■Ina­bi­lity to func­tion in a rela­tionship with anyone
■NO sex drive
■Fai­lure to ovu­late and/or cons­tant blee­ding (see Rainbow’s story)
■Moody periods
■PMS
■Ina­bi­lity to get preg­nant; miscarriages
■Exc­ru­cia­ting pain during period
■Nau­sea
■Swelling/edema/puffiness
■Aching bones/muscles
■Osteo­po­ro­sis
■Bumps on legs
■Acne on face and in hair
■Brea­kout on chest and arms
■Hives
■Exhaus­tion in every dimen­sion – phy­si­cal, men­tal, spi­ri­tual, emotional
■Ina­bi­lity to work full-time
■Ina­bi­lity to stand on feet for long periods
■Com­plete lack of motivation
■Slo­wing to a snail’s pace when wal­king up slight grade
■Extre­mely crabby, irri­ta­ble, into­le­rant of others
■Handw­ri­ting nearly illegible
■Inter­nal itching of ears
■Broken/peeling fin­ger­nails
■Dry skin or snake skin
■Major anxiety/worry
■Rin­ging in ears
■Lac­tose Intolerance
■Ina­bi­lity to eat in the mornings
■Joint pain
■Car­pal tun­nel symptoms
■No Appe­tite
■Fluid reten­tion to the point of Con­ges­tive Heart Failure
■Swo­llen legs that pre­ven­ted walking
■Blood Pres­sure problems
■Vari­cose Veins
■Diz­zi­ness from fluid on the inner ear
■Low body temperature
■Rai­sed temperature
■Tight­ness in throat; sore throat
■Swo­llen lymph glands
■Aller­gies (which can also be a result of low cor­ti­sol–com­mon with hypothy­roid patients)
■Hea­daches and Migraines
■Sore feet (plan­tar fas­ci­tis); pain­ful soles of feet
■now how do I put this one politely.…a cold bum, butt, derriere, fanny, glu­teus maxi­mus, haunches, hind­quar­ters, pos­te­rior, rear, and/or cheeks. Yup, really exists.
■coli­tis
■irri­ta­ble bowel syndrome
■pain­ful bladder
■Extreme hun­ger, espe­cially at nighttime
■Dyspha­gia, which is nerve damage and cau­ses the ina­bi­lity to swa­llow fluid, food or your own saliva and leads to “aspi­ra­tion pneumonia

Take your temperature

Gene­rally, the ave­rage tem­pe­ra­ture of an adult with a healthy thy­roid and a healthy meta­bo­lism is 98.6 degrees Fah­renheit or 37.0 degrees Cel­sius, and that occurs around mid-afternoon or 3 pm. So if you take your mid-afternoon temp and find it in low 98’s or even in the 97’s, you have been given a strong clue that you may be hypothy­roid. And a few report their mid-afternoon temp being in the 96’s. BRRRR.

Another tem­pe­ra­ture clue is to take it before you rise from your bed in the mor­ning. Dr. Broda Bar­nes, a doc­tor who paid atten­tion to cli­ni­cal pre­sen­ta­tion and presc­ri­bed Armour, found that a healthy before-rising mor­ning basal temp should be bet­ween 97.8 — 98.2. If it’s higher, you may be hyperthy­roid, and if it’s lower, you are most likely hypothy­roid. He also recom­men­ded under-the-arm tem­pe­ra­ture tes­ting, but patients have found oral to be just as effective.

A normal temperature does not rule out the possibility of being hypothyroid. You may have an infection.

I spoke to my doctor about all of this yesterday over the phone. He completely shot it down and said “no your TSH is normal.” and “Any doctor who sees that TSH level, would know to rule out Thyoid problems.”

I also talked to him about desiccated thyroid meds. He said they don’t believe in those medicines, they are dangerous. They meaning he and his fellow endocrinoligists.

I can’t find a doctor around here that believes this is my problem. I don’t want to wait 3-4 months to go see Chrisler; nor do I want to travel there either. I am debating running one more blood test to confirm and then self medicating. Buying Nature Thyroid from a reliable online provider. Has anyone other than Mitch used Armour or Nature Thyroid?

[JN1]

Good post Boston. I strongly advise you get a reverse T3 level done. There will be plenty of docs who specialise in thyroid/adrenal disorders; not necessarily top names or professors. Bear in mind the conservative medical fraternity will not acknowledge Reverse T3 syndrome. Try ‘naturopaths’.

I’m fed up of all this too. Really fed up of this. I feel like I’ve been led on a wild goosechase in life, I feel mocked and bruised and battered.

JN

[golf]

One problem with all the symptoms you listed Boston is that they seem to overlap with symptoms of low testosterone. I did however take my temp and it was only 96.0 - and I have a swollen lymph node. Only blood test will tell I guess…

[anonnn1]

my temperate keeps coming in at 97’s during the day…

[JN1]

My temp was 94.6 (34.7 Celsius) three mornings ago! I injected some more T and since then it came up to 96.8. (36.1 Celsius).

JN

[bostonusa2009]

@golf17331

One problem with all the symptoms you listed Boston is that they seem to overlap with symptoms of low testosterone. I did however take my temp and it was only 96.0 - and I have a swollen lymph node. Only blood test will tell I guess…

Golf17331,

I know what you mean. I have always believe we may have more than one thing screwed up with us. It’s certainly possible that many of us have a thyroid problem and could also have other issues as well.

One thing is for sure, if our many of problems are caused from thyroid, we have hope. Read below.

Men: Is Your Thyroid Causing Sexual Problems?

In one recent study, researchers from the University of Modena, Italy, looked at almost 50 adult men who had hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism. Each man was given a questionnaire to answer about their sexual function and were then asked more directly about erectile dysfunction and related problems by a doctor.

Ultimately, it was determined that over 63 percent of the men with hypothyroidism were diagnosed with low sexual desire, premature ejaculation and delayed ejaculation. Among the men with hyperthyroidism, 50 percent were diagnosed with premature ejaculation, 17 percent with low sexual desire and 15 percent with erectile dysfunction.

All of the men in the study were then treated for their thyroid disease. Among the men with hypothyroidism, the incidence of premature ejaculation dropped from 50 percent to 15 percent. And the low sexual desire and delayed ejaculation disappeared in most of the men.

Once the men with hyperthyroidism were treated, almost all saw their symptoms of erectile dysfunction disappear.

healthvideo.com/article.php? … ysfunction

Free T3: T3 is the active thy­roid hor­mone, also called triio­dothy­ro­nine, and can be the most impor­tant lab you will do. Same as above, you need to spe­ci­fi­cally request the free T3 to reveal what is unbound and avai­la­ble. You can have a so-called nor­mal TSH, but if your free T3 is low in the range, that is a strong sign of your hypothy­roid sta­tus. Though most of the T3 in your body is pro­du­ced by the con­ver­sion of T4 to T3, there is also a direct release of T3 from the thy­roid. T3 is the active hor­mone which is res­pon­si­ble for your ove­rall good health, meta­bo­lism, immune strength, etc. A good level of T3 is what pre­vents chro­nic low grade depres­sion, high cho­les­te­rol, dry skin and hair.…the list is end­less.

When patients are rai­sing their Armour, their opti­mal dose is most often the amount that gets their free T3 at the top of the range, if not slightly over in some patients, with no hyper. The free T4 is often mid-range, and the TSH is most often sup­pres­sed. The lat­ter does NOT equate to having osteo­po­ro­sis or heart pro­blems, as many unin­for­med doc­tors will rotely state. Ins­tead, patients have repor­ted their bone den­sity IMPROVED, as did some heart issues.

I met all of these according to my last test done, hypothyroid.

• Reverse T3 (to be tes­ted when your Free T4 is in the upper part of the range with con­ti­nuing symp­toms. You need to do it at the same time you do free T3 to mea­sure the ratio)

Mine is right there in the upper part of the range.

[golf]

It seems that on several websites i’ve looked into they suggest testing thyroid with a trh stimulation test as one of the most sensitive ways to test thyroid function. Perhaps this is a good test for those to include in combination with reverse t3.

[bostonusa2009]

@sufferer2001recovered2009

Good post Boston. I strongly advise you get a reverse T3 level done. There will be plenty of docs who specialise in thyroid/adrenal disorders; not necessarily top names or professors. Bear in mind the conservative medical fraternity will not acknowledge Reverse T3 syndrome. Try ‘naturopaths’.

I’m fed up of all this too. Really fed up of this. I feel like I’ve been led on a wild goosechase in life, I feel mocked and bruised and battered.

JN

JN,

I agree I’m completely frustrated. I was supposed to get a blood test done earlier in the week, but ate too late at night and couldn’t do it. I will shoot for tomorrow.

I will be sure they add Reverse T3 to my list of items. What pisses me off is the complete ineptness of these doctors; It’s unbelievable, most of them are incompetent. You have low T and they all immediately insist Androgel or TRT is the only treatment they will recommend.

I am at a loss for what to do next. I currently feel rather confident, I have a thyroid problem.
I have done this temperature test and I always come in the range considered a thyroid problem; and my most recent blood test on T3 & T4 indicate good likelihood of hypothyroidism. I also have many of the symptoms.

I can’t find a reliable website online that will sell Armour or Nature Thyroid without a script in US or Canada. My current endo said he would not prescribe it, so it doesn’t matter how my test turns out.

I need to locate a competent open-minded thyroid doctor in my area. Maybe those words used together are an oxymoron. I just can’t bear to wait three months either.

[bostonusa2009]

Here’s another connection. I’m not sure about this website as a legitimate source, maybe someone can verify what this guy is saying.

Thyroid

The thyroid produces mostly T4. T4 goes to mostly to the liver and is converted to T3. We are getting the idea that insulin controls a lot of what goes on in the liver, and the liver is the primary organ that becomes insulin resistant.

When the liver can no longer listen to insulin, you can’t convert T4 to T3 very well. In people who are hyperinsulinemic with a thyroid hormone that comes back totally normal, it is important to measure their T3. Just as often as not, their free T3 will be low, but get their insulin down and it comes back up.

Insulin helps control sex hormones estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone as well. Insulin helps control the manufacture of cholesterol and where do all the sex hormones come from? All the stearic hormones are originally derived from cholesterol, so that’s one way. Dr Nestler from the University of Virginia who has spent the last eight years doing multiple studies to show that DHEA levels are directly correlated with insulin levels, or I should say insulin resistance.

The more insulin resistant you are, the lower your DHEA levels. He firmly believes, and has a lot of studies to back it up, that the decline in DHEA is strictly due to the increase in insulin resistance with age. If you reduce the insulin resistance, the DHEA rises.

And how are these sex hormones carried around the body? Something called sex hormone binding globulins. The more that is bound, the less free, active hormone you have. Sex hormone binding globulin is controlled by what? Insulin. There is not a hormone in the body that insulin doesn’t affect, if not directly control.

samanthabackman.com/dr-artic … cle-21.htm

I know I have come back with low IGF-1 on more than one test, which is produced in the liver. Now here is the connection with T3 & T4, back to the liver again.

If this is true how do we get our insulin low?

[bostonusa2009]

@golf17331

It seems that on several websites i’ve looked into they suggest testing thyroid with a trh stimulation test as one of the most sensitive ways to test thyroid function. Perhaps this is a good test for those to include in combination with reverse t3.

Golf, do you mean TSH? What is TRH?

[golf]

thyroid.about.com/od/gettestedan … rhtest.htm

[bostonusa2009]

Here’s some good actual proven info for the link between the liver and thyroid problems.

Thus tissue thyroid status depends not only on thyroxine secretion but also on normal thyroid hormone metabolism, delivery of T3 to nuclear receptors and on receptor distribution and function. Normal thyroid function, which is essential for normal growth, development and the regulation of energy metabolism within cells, is dependent on a normally functioning thyroid and liver axis.

The conversion of T4 to T3 in extrathyroidal tissue occurs through a rapidly equilibrating pool via the D1 enzyme system and a slowly equilibrating pool via the D2 system. The type 1 deiodinase is mainly found in the liver and kidney,18 and accounts for approximately 30–40% of extrathyroidal production of T3 (12 nmol). The type 2 deiodinase is found in the pituitary, the CNS, and skeletal muscle and contributes 60–70% of the extrathyroidal production of T3 (30 nmol).19 Although this enzyme system performs similar actions to the D1 group of enzymes, its kinetics, regulation and susceptibility to propylthiouracil are different.20 Although both the D1 and D2 system can also inactivate T4 and T3, the major inactivator is the type 3 deiodinase system, which primarily exhibits inner-ring deiodination (unlike the other systems).21 It is found in the liver, skin and CNS, where it catalyses the conversion of T4 to rT3 and T3 to T2, both inactive metabolites; it also converts rT3 to rT2.20 This enzyme system is also expressed in placenta, where it protects the foetus from maternal thyroid hormones.22
In addition to the central role in deiodination to activate and deactivate thyroid hormones, the liver performs specific functions relating to thyroid hormone transport and metabolism.

The liver extracts 5–10% of plasma T4 during a single passage, as shown by studies using [131I]T4. This value is much higher than can be accounted for by the amount of free T4 delivered to the liver, indicating that a substantial amount of protein-bound T4 is available for uptake. 23 An active stereospecific transport mechanism has been identified for transporting T4 and T3 across the hepatocyte membrane. The intracellular concentrations of the free hormone are higher than the plasma levels, and the process is energy-dependent.24

Based on my blood work, having a rather high T4, I would think a clogged liver could be slowing down the conversion to T3?

[JN1]

Boston,

TRH is thyrotropin releasing hormone. Released by neuro epiphysis (in hypothalamus) in brain, which stimulates pituitary to release TSH.

That’s why it is called a HPTA for example. The H is the part that release TRH, P is TSH.
It is part of the feedback loop, that’s all. Essentially irrelevant here in this discussion as one looks at TSH levels.

JN

[anonnn1]

There are studies stating that LOW T3 increase your risk of stroke…If indeed our thyroid panels come back with low T3(like mine), if left untreated, we are at a higher risk of stroke as we get older…This is NOT GOOD!

If this is the case as well, Merck should put:Increased risk of Stroke, as a side effect. Just like they should of done with their drug Vioxx

[JN1]

I think the downstream products of thyroid synthesis should suffice in assessing thyroid status. (esp free T3, free T4 and rT3).
My previous post (highlighting the comments of the doctor called ‘The Matrix’) indicates low IGF-1 may be due to low thyroid function.
I had a low IGF-1 and very low IGF BP3.

Possibly low Adiol G is due to low 3 HSD activity (proven to be sped up by thyroid activity). Also, have a look at the DHT heptanoate trial. Strangely, one individual had really low Adiol G BEFORE being injected with DHT Heptanoate. On being injected with 250mg DHT Hept, his Adiol G rose LESS than the other 5 subjects, and was still within normal range! In this situation, it could be hypothesised that he had low 3 HSD enzyme and poorly converted DHT to Adiol G. Possibly he was hypothyroid.

The common finding of low Vit D in chronic fatigue sufferers and hypothyroid patients may also be significant, as it is a finding in us sufferers.

I’m hoping there is a pattern here. Please, oh please.

JN

[anonnn1]

Bostonusa2009,

You may have low cortisol levels too…make sure you get that check as well…becaues if you end up going on T3 medication, and have low cortisol…you WILL need to take hydrocortisone, or you will feel like crap! Our HGH levels also maybe low because of High RT3 dominance. One of my studies I dug up in the “other Studies” section illustrates that HGH injections lowered RT3 levels.

Also, I think you should try a clomid protocol of some sort before even considering TRT…See if you can restart your system…See a good doctor who can help you out with that…

Ideally, what would make sense is to first

1.) Restart your system(get testosterone, free test, LH, FSH back up in healthy ranges).
2.) Retest bloodwork after a month.
3.) Get on T3 & hydrocortisone if needed
4.) Retest blood work

It’s a slow process, but I think it’s what you should do with a GOOD doctor.

I’m with you bro…I’ve been to many doctors, they simply DIDNT listen…Don’t forget this happened to me in 2002 when there wasnt as many complaints because the drug was only on the market for 4 years. Now Merck has to deal with us longer term for ignoring the problem(due to most likely revenue implications on really digging deep on the root cause of our problem). That’s ok, they MADE their money. All I want from them is to reimburse me 30-40k that I spent on trying to get better the last 8 years of my life.

Lets keep on moving…I think after all of this BS, I’m considering on going to school for my D.O…and be a doctor like JN.

[bostonusa2009]

@anonnn1

Bostonusa2009,

You may have low cortisol levels too…make sure you get that check as well…becaues if you end up going on T3 medication, and have low cortisol…you WILL need to take hydrocortisone, or you will feel like crap! Our HGH levels also maybe low because of High RT3 dominance. One of my studies I dug up in the “other Studies” section illustrates that HGH injections lowered RT3 levels.

Also, I think you should try a clomid protocol of some sort before even considering TRT…See if you can restart your system…See a good doctor who can help you out with that…

Ideally, what would make sense is to first

1.) Restart your system(get testosterone, free test, LH, FSH back up in healthy ranges).
2.) Retest bloodwork after a month.
3.) Get on T3 & hydrocortisone if needed
4.) Retest blood work

It’s a slow process, but I think it’s what you should do with a GOOD doctor.

I’m with you bro…I’ve been to many doctors, they simply DIDNT listen…Don’t forget this happened to me in 2002 when there wasnt as many complaints because the drug was only on the market for 4 years. Now Merck has to deal with us longer term for ignoring the problem(due to most likely revenue implications on really digging deep on the root cause of our problem). That’s ok, they MADE their money. All I want from them is to reimburse me 30-40k that I spent on trying to get better the last 8 years of my life.

Lets keep on moving…I think after all of this BS, I’m considering on going to school for my D.O…and be a doctor like JN.

Annonn1,

I agree with you about the cortisol. That website, that I posted info from “Stop the Thryoid Madness” mentioned this. They said if your body temperature is all over place, 1/2 - 2 degrees lower at the same time the next day, This could be a good sign you have low-functioning adrenals. This is an easy test we can all do, by simply taking our temperatures consistently.

I had a cortisol stimulation test done about 4 months ago and supposedly came back fine. Maybe I need to dig that up and try to look at the results on my own. The fact my own endo doctor thought nothing of my T3 being extremely low range makes me lose all confidence in his judgement.

You were saying get your LH back up. Mine should be back up now. I did a cycle of HCG for 5 weeks, two times per week 300 iU. My nuts sag less and increased mental and better energy, but still all sexual problems exist.

Have you had your T3, T4, RT3 tested yet? I have not seen a lot guys results. I am very curious to see some results start coming in. I really thing we are onto something with this.

[bostonusa2009]

@sufferer2001recovered2009

I think the downstream products of thyroid synthesis should suffice in assessing thyroid status. (esp free T3, free T4 and rT3).
My previous post (highlighting the comments of the doctor called ‘The Matrix’) indicates low IGF-1 may be due to low thyroid function.
I had a low IGF-1 and very low IGF BP3.

JN

JN,

I absolutely agree with this point regarding the IGF-1. It makes perfect sense. Where are you at in the process now with thyroid. Have you run a new blood test yet? If you get the results we expect, are you considered a desiccated thyroid product like Armour or Nature Thyroid?

The common finding of low Vit D in chronic fatigue sufferers and hypothyroid patients may also be significant, as it is a finding in us sufferers.

Yes, I have read this is very common symptom of people with hypothyroidism.

What do you think about the possibility that our Thyroid problems, low T3 have to do with our Livers not functioning properly? I found a website yesterday where I guy was claiming that nearly all Thyroid problems are linked to problems with liver. It wasn’t a medical study, so I didn’t bother to post it.